Brexit negotiations

I don't think euroscepticism is a party issue as all parties have their fair share of them. The problem is that the Brexit promises are and always were undeliverable and the situation has been exacerbated by an incompetent administration hampered further by an agenda that goes way beyond leaving the EU.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:But if they were in charge, which they wish to be, they'd have followed a similar path.

Attempting to get all the nice bits of membership and getting rid of the "bad bits."

The EU aren't going to offer a new unique CU and SM.

I agree with you. But at least Labour would have some more flexibility in negotiations, Mays red lines were a monumental error on her part. They basically left her with nothing to offer the EU.

wanderlust wrote:I don't think euroscepticism is a party issue as all parties have their fair share of them. The problem is that the Brexit promises are and always were undeliverable and the situation has been exacerbated by an incompetent administration hampered further by an agenda that goes way beyond leaving the EU.

They may have been deliverable if WTO terms were negotiated from the minute article 50 was triggered.

We'll never know though because they weren't.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:But if they were in charge, which they wish to be, they'd have followed a similar path.

Attempting to get all the nice bits of membership and getting rid of the "bad bits."

The EU aren't going to offer a new unique CU and SM.

I agree with you. But at least Labour would have some more flexibility in negotiations, Mays red lines were a monumental error on her part. They basically left her with nothing to offer the EU.

Labour had a red lines as well. The six tests. They also said they'd never allow no deal.

No reason for the EU to even bother negotiating on that basis knowing labour would have accepted literally anything on offer.

This is what happens with Brexit. You can't leave them alone for a minute.

Watch out for the return of the toothbrush moustache.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/must_see/46634598/lederhosen-love-among-austria-s-millennials

Incredible that Chris Grayling has awarded the Brexit cross channel contract to a firm that has never run a ferry company and has no ships. Here.

Just about sums up the whole fiasco.

wanderlust wrote:Incredible that Chris Grayling has awarded the Brexit cross channel contract to a firm that has never run a ferry company and has no ships. Here.

Just about sums up the whole fiasco.

Got to be some backhanders going on with that one!

How is grayling still in his job anyway.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:How is grayling still in his job anyway.

Because 69% of people over the age of 70 and 55% of people with low educational achievement (GCSE or below) voted for the Tories in the general election and Grayling is what they kindly gave us.
No surprise really as the Tories have always been the party of the senile and the thick 

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:How is grayling still in his job anyway.

Because 69% of people over the age of 70 and 55% of people with low educational achievement (GCSE or below) voted for the Tories in the general election and Grayling is what they kindly gave us.
No surprise really as the Tories have always been the party of the senile and the thick 

Deary me.

wanderlust wrote:Because 69% of people over the age of 70 and 55% of people with low educational achievement (GCSE or below) voted for the Tories in the general election and Grayling is what they kindly gave us.
No surprise really as the Tories have always been the party of the senile and the thick 

Embarrassing post.

Wander has become the forum circus act.

Obviously a member of the deranged fbpe twitter mob with views such as those espoused above.

The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government 

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " " symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government 

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " " symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.

Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government 

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " " symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.

a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

Good point although more unemployed people vote for the Tories than Labour when you take into account those who are "retired" which you seem to have conveniently ignored.

The really interesting stat is the change with age which makes sense as the more wealth people accrue through their working life and into retirement the less willing they are to support funding for the less affluent, less able and less healthy members of society and less willing to change the status quo.
Basically, they want to hang on to what they've got and thereby demonstrate clearly that they consider personal status to be more important than British society as a whole - even though it was British society that provided the vehicle and opportunities for them to get to the privileged position they are in. Self-congratulatory greed and selfishness are the adjectives that come to mind.

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government 

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " " symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.

a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

So bias to the Tory's that yougov is it was one of the only polling companies to predict they would lose their majority at the last election.

Another wonderful tin foil hat conspiracy cooked up by detained "jez4pm" types on twitter.

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

Basically, they want to hang on to what they've got and thereby demonstrate clearly that they consider personal status to be more important than British society as a whole - even though it was British society that provided the vehicle and opportunities for them to get to the privileged position they are in. Self-congratulatory greed and selfishness are the adjectives that come to mind.

I think this part of your statement better describes those who voted to remain within Europe.
Us old timers knew a vastly different society than that of today. We contributed, and learned that we had to save, and look to the future. The idea, promoted by every government, was that we should provide for ourselves as much as possible, and not give it all away to people who have done nothing for it. I don't understand why you should call us greedy, have you given all your money away then? Also, for many many older people, its not a case of being freedy, but more of survival.