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Brexit negotiations

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481Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 11:59

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I don't think euroscepticism is a party issue as all parties have their fair share of them. The problem is that the Brexit promises are and always were undeliverable and the situation has been exacerbated by an incompetent administration hampered further by an agenda that goes way beyond leaving the EU.

482Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 12:01

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:But if they were in charge, which they wish to be, they'd have followed a similar path.

Attempting to get all the nice bits of membership and getting rid of the "bad bits."

The EU aren't going to offer a new unique CU and SM.

I agree with you. But at least Labour would have some more flexibility in negotiations, Mays red lines were a monumental error on her part. They basically left her with nothing to offer the EU.

483Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 12:03

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:I don't think euroscepticism is a party issue as all parties have their fair share of them. The problem is that the Brexit promises are and always were undeliverable and the situation has been exacerbated by an incompetent administration hampered further by an agenda that goes way beyond leaving the EU.

They may have been deliverable if WTO terms were negotiated from the minute article 50 was triggered.

We'll never know though because they weren't.

484Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 12:09

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:But if they were in charge, which they wish to be, they'd have followed a similar path.

Attempting to get all the nice bits of membership and getting rid of the "bad bits."

The EU aren't going to offer a new unique CU and SM.

I agree with you. But at least Labour would have some more flexibility in negotiations, Mays red lines were a monumental error on her part. They basically left her with nothing to offer the EU.

Labour had a red lines as well. The six tests. They also said they'd never allow no deal.

No reason for the EU to even bother negotiating on that basis knowing labour would have accepted literally anything on offer.

485Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jan 01 2019, 19:58

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
This is what happens with Brexit. You can't leave them alone for a minute.

Watch out for the return of the toothbrush moustache. Shocked

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/must_see/46634598/lederhosen-love-among-austria-s-millennials

486Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 11:29

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Incredible that Chris Grayling has awarded the Brexit cross channel contract to a firm that has never run a ferry company and has no ships. Here.

Just about sums up the whole fiasco.

487Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 12:10

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:Incredible that Chris Grayling has awarded the Brexit cross channel contract to a firm that has never run a ferry company and has no ships. Here.

Just about sums up the whole fiasco.

Got to be some backhanders going on with that one!

488Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 13:46

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
How is grayling still in his job anyway.

489Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 18:17

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:How is grayling still in his job anyway.
Because 69% of people over the age of 70 and 55% of people with low educational achievement (GCSE or below) voted for the Tories in the general election and Grayling is what they kindly gave us.
No surprise really as the Tories have always been the party of the senile and the thick  :rofl:

490Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 21:25

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:How is grayling still in his job anyway.
Because 69% of people over the age of 70 and 55% of people with low educational achievement (GCSE or below) voted for the Tories in the general election and Grayling is what they kindly gave us.
No surprise really as the Tories have always been the party of the senile and the thick  :rofl:

Deary me.

491Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 21:37

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:Because 69% of people over the age of 70 and 55% of people with low educational achievement (GCSE or below) voted for the Tories in the general election and Grayling is what they kindly gave us.
No surprise really as the Tories have always been the party of the senile and the thick  :rofl:

Embarrassing post.

492Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 21:43

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Wander has become the forum circus act. jocolor

493Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 21:46

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Obviously a member of the deranged fbpe twitter mob with views such as those espoused above.

494Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 22:35

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government  Very Happy

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " :rofl:" symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

495Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 02 2019, 23:15

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government  Very Happy

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " :rofl:" symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.

496Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 03 2019, 07:14

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

497Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 03 2019, 11:40

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government  Very Happy

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " :rofl:" symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.
a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.



Last edited by wanderlust on Thu Jan 03 2019, 11:58; edited 1 time in total

498Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 03 2019, 11:54

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.
Good point although more unemployed people vote for the Tories than Labour when you take into account those who are "retired" which you seem to have conveniently ignored.

The really interesting stat is the change with age which makes sense as the more wealth people accrue through their working life and into retirement the less willing they are to support funding for the less affluent, less able and less healthy members of society and less willing to change the status quo.
Basically, they want to hang on to what they've got and thereby demonstrate clearly that they consider personal status to be more important than British society as a whole - even though it was British society that provided the vehicle and opportunities for them to get to the privileged position they are in. Self-congratulatory greed and selfishness are the adjectives that come to mind.

499Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 03 2019, 12:29

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government  Very Happy

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " :rofl:" symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.
a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

So bias to the Tory's that yougov is it was one of the only polling companies to predict they would lose their majority at the last election.

Another wonderful tin foil hat conspiracy cooked up by detained "jez4pm" types on twitter.

500Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 03 2019, 12:37

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@wanderlust wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

Basically, they want to hang on to what they've got and thereby demonstrate clearly that they consider personal status to be more important than British society as a whole - even though it was British society that provided the vehicle and opportunities for them to get to the privileged position they are in. Self-congratulatory greed and selfishness are the adjectives that come to mind.
I think this part of your statement better describes those who voted to remain within Europe.
Us old timers knew a vastly different society than that of today. We contributed, and learned that we had to save, and look to the future. The idea, promoted by every government, was that we should provide for ourselves as much as possible, and not give it all away to people who have done nothing for it. I don't understand why you should call us greedy, have you given all your money away then? Also, for many many older people, its not a case of being freedy, but more of survival.

501Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 03 2019, 13:28

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government  Very Happy

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " :rofl:" symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.
a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

1 - People know how crap your reply is when your very first point is quibbling over a typing error and not the content of what was said.
2 - You stated quite clearly that the information was published by the Conservative Government - it was not.  It was I that informed YOU that YouGov was a PRIVATE International company!
3 - YouGov was NOT founded by a Conservative MP (although 12 years after its incorporation one of it's co-founders Nadhim Zahawi did become one).
4 - Zahawi however RESIGNED from YouGov BEFORE he stood for Parliament.

Rolling Eyes

502Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jan 04 2019, 12:32

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government  Very Happy

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " :rofl:" symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.
a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

1 - People know how crap your reply is when your very first point is quibbling over a typing error and not the content of what was said.
2 - You stated quite clearly that the information was published by the Conservative Government - it was not.  It was I that informed YOU that YouGov was a PRIVATE International company!
3 - YouGov was NOT founded by a Conservative MP (although 12 years after its incorporation one of it's co-founders Nadhim Zahawi did become one).
4 - Zahawi however RESIGNED from YouGov BEFORE he stood for Parliament.

Rolling Eyes
1) which people do you think you are speaking for?
2) technically correct although given the facts there’s no way you can claim anti-government bias as implied in your original comment 
3) Zahawi is the founder and he is a Tory mp so what’s your problem?
4) He is a shareholding PDMR ergo still has vested interest.

It’s still a fact that the majority of non-working over 70 year olds and the less educated vote Tory.

...and probably to leave the EU too Smile

503Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jan 04 2019, 13:48

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
@gloswhite wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

Basically, they want to hang on to what they've got and thereby demonstrate clearly that they consider personal status to be more important than British society as a whole - even though it was British society that provided the vehicle and opportunities for them to get to the privileged position they are in. Self-congratulatory greed and selfishness are the adjectives that come to mind.
I think this part of your statement better describes those who voted to remain within Europe.
Us old timers knew a vastly different society than that of today. We contributed, and learned that we had to save, and look to the future. The idea, promoted by every government, was that we should provide for ourselves as much as possible, and not give it all away to people who have done nothing for it. I don't understand why you should call us greedy, have you given all your money away then? Also, for many many older people, its not a case of being freedy, but more of survival.

The trouble is that it is not easy for my generation to save. I have a good wage but more than one third goes on rent, and I can forget about buying when a three bedroom apartment goes for more than 350,000 Euro where I live. When you talk about people who have done nothing are you talking about British people that don't bother to work ? I ask because like I said before, EU Citizens living and working in the UK have a higher net contribution than British people:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

I do agree that a lot of old people struggle to get by, and it is shameful that they are not helped more, but once again that is a UK Government issue and nothing to do with the EU. I don't see that problem over here, but then again the Pension over here is a hell of a lot higher than in the UK, but of course we pay a hell of a lot more in to the system in the first place.

504Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jan 06 2019, 19:19

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I'm not referring to any particular caste of working people, or where they are from. its more about making the point that we plan for, and retain, a future as much as possible for when we need it. I'm no different to anyone else in that I was unemployed for some time, had no head-start financially with money left by parents or relatives, got into debt, and was often on the bare bones of my arse when it came to cash. I still remember when if I had paid all my bills, I would have been left with £3 for the month. Its at times like this that you realise that life isn't going to do anything for you, and you have to make the decisions, and keep making the necessary moves to make your life better. It doesn't mean going to the benefit office, and expecting them to keep you afloat for the rest of your life.
When I got my first mortgage, it was thought that life was at a good standard if the mortgage was approximately a third of your income, which is where you are at this time. Financially you seem to be doing OK, and property prices are, I believe, slightly lower in mainland Europe, than in the UK, (though I could be wrong), so I still believe you should be counting your blessings.

505Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jan 07 2019, 03:09

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I do think lifestyle expectations have changed over the years with the rise of the consumer culture and borrowing. 

Very difficult to save much for the future in such an environment and the type of austerity we lived through in the 70s won't be considered an option by many of the 20 somethings I know, although a few are wising up. But they are the lucky ones.

506Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jan 07 2019, 12:05

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Agreed Wander, its not easy, but there again, it wasn't then either. I think a major change, as you say, is the revolution/evolution of the consumer society, where people feel they are not really 'living' if they don't have the latest in technology, appliances, etc. More and more people are being forced into personal situations where they have to make crucial decisions, and many don't have the experience, or outlook, to do it successfully. Society as a whole is on a slow downward spiral, where life is getting cheaper, and fulfillment of expectations is getting so much harder.

507Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jan 07 2019, 13:55

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Agreed Wander, its not easy, but there again, it wasn't then either. I think a major change, as you say, is the revolution/evolution of the consumer society, where people feel they are not really 'living' if they don't have the latest in technology, appliances, etc. More and more people are being forced into personal situations where they have to make crucial decisions, and many don't have the experience, or outlook, to do it successfully. Society as a whole is on a slow downward spiral, where life is getting cheaper, and fulfillment of expectations is getting so much harder.
All this takes me back to when me and my mate were living in a condemned property in Causewayhead in Stirling that was still being rented out where we had to burn floorboards to keep warm and nick turnips from the fields to top up a pot of stew that was kept on the go for 3 months. Can't have been healthy on reflection, but we survived and we were independent.

508Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jan 07 2019, 13:56

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

509Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jan 07 2019, 13:58

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

You mean they all went back to eating meat? Very Happy

510Brexit negotiations - Page 17 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jan 07 2019, 13:59

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@karlypants wrote:
@boltonbonce wrote:I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

You mean they all went back to eating meat? Very Happy
No. They ran out of gas masks.

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