Championship: Up & Down?

There are 10 or 12 teams in this league that could get promoted but only a couple that have stood out from the pack so far, notably Blackpool. For us to get to their level we need to sort out the defence and solve the problem of adding a defensive mid without blunting the attack - bit of a reshuffle and a few more games. We can assume that the other teams will improve by sorting out their own shortcomings. So I guess there's no way of telling where we'll end up at this stage - all we know is that after a loss and a draw some of the other contenders have already stolen a march on us.

wanderlust wrote:There are 10 or 12 teams in this league that could get promoted but only a couple that have stood out from the pack so far, notably Blackpool. For us to get to their level we need to sort out the defence and solve the problem of adding a defensive mid without blunting the attack - bit of a reshuffle and a few more games. We can assume that the other teams will improve by sorting out their own shortcomings. So I guess there's no way of telling where we'll end up at this stage - all we know is that after a loss and a draw some of the other contenders have already stolen a march on us.

True, but Coyle doesn't seem to be able to tackle the problem areas. At times teams just walk through our non-existant midfield area - that is the main thing that needs addressing.

If Coyle doesn't bring in a defensive midfielder this week it will confirm that he really shouldn't be managing at this level.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:There are 10 or 12 teams in this league that could get promoted but only a couple that have stood out from the pack so far, notably Blackpool. For us to get to their level we need to sort out the defence and solve the problem of adding a defensive mid without blunting the attack - bit of a reshuffle and a few more games. We can assume that the other teams will improve by sorting out their own shortcomings. So I guess there's no way of telling where we'll end up at this stage - all we know is that after a loss and a draw some of the other contenders have already stolen a march on us.

True, but Coyle doesn't seem to be able to tackle the problem areas. At times teams just walk through our non-existant midfield area - that is the main thing that needs addressing.

If Coyle doesn't bring in a defensive midfielder this week it will confirm that he really shouldn't be managing at this level.

... or he wasn't able too.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
... or he wasn't able too.

If you realised your whole season was resting on getting a holding midfielder you'd go out and do it.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
... or he wasn't able too.

If you realised your whole season was resting on getting a holding midfielder you'd go out and do it.

I must say I agree with this and said more or less that Coyle had to do that in January too and failed miserably.

Holden is out for who knows when, Muamba as retired, Reo-Coker left and Coyle's only brought in Andrews.

He's KNOWN he's three midfield down all summer yet only managed to get Andrews in and fart around with 'The Rock'.

As soon as he started to miss meetings and his agent demanded double salary, I thing any sensible person KNEW that this deal wasn't going to work and should have immediately moved on to his next target - but oh no, not Coyle - he wasted weeks with his 'he's on his way', 'oh no he's not' antics.

The more I see of Coyle's man management skills, the more I think that he truly doesn't have much of a clue with that part of his job either.

Remember this is the man that proudly proclaimed that he sent Holden a training top and a couple of shirts in the post to keep him motivated - wtf!

Take a couple of days off and fly to see him in America and give him them yourself - I think that would make him feel more special than waiting for the mailman to arrive!

Coyle really is completely clueless.

But who would you bring in?

I agree that he should be pursing that position strongly, but maybe he is?

At the end of the day he's only going to go after people he deems of sufficient quality, he's obviously targeted Sanchez and Spearing, maybe he thinks Vela is up to playing a role.

If he brought in any old player he'd take shit for that too.

and as for flying to see Holden, come on, you want him to be tracking players and making inquiries 24/7 but he's also got to "take a couple of days off" to go and hand a player a couple of shirts. Bit silly that really.

No I don't think it is.

He must have known BEFORE the seasons end that he needed two midfields for Holden and Muamba and shortly after it (if not before as well) three, to replace Reo-Coker.

Scouting should have been going on continuously throughout the season AND I'm sure numerous agents across Europe, the Americas and the far east would have been touting their clients to clubs like ours - so it really would not been that difficult to have come up with a list of likely targets - and I'm not talking about any old player or other.

I guess this is evidenced in the way we quickly got Andrews in and who had ever heard of 'The Rock' before we went after him?

Do you think the club's summer shopping list of proposed midfield targets consisted of just TWO players (Spearings only just come on the market since Rodgers has had the time to assess who he wants and doesn't from taking over as manager)? I don't - but then again with Coyle in charge it may very well have done!

As for doing the 'touch feely' thing of taking say three days out over the summer break to visit the clubs best player (by a mile when fit!) paid for by the club as well - then why the fuck not - I certainly would have done it - Christ I even send out the occasional private pm's on here and other past forums I've been on, to posters who I think for whatever reason may have felt a bit down or hard done by and I don't even know then from Adam!

I don't think Coyle 'tracks' all the players personally and he certainly is not the one who 'makes the enquires', so yes I think Coyle most certainly could have fitted in a few days to see Holden personally if he had a mind too - unless he thinks his knee is permanently fucked?

If you were Holden wouldn't you appreciate the effort? I know I would.

Fair enough, i do think he is.

I just think he has a limited budget and is targeting players that he perceives to be "quality" of course one mans quality is another mans shite, so that means little.

obviously unless we have inside info it's difficult to really say for sure about things, but i'd definitely be surprised if Coyle has realised this week he needs a DM.

He has Vela, he purchased Andrews and has targeted "the rock" and Spearing. Thats four DM's, assuming we get Spearing, he's got three, along with players like Pratley and Ream who can also play there. We've plenty of bodies.

I'm not saying I'm happy with the way we've done business or even with Coyle but i do think it's a stretch to suggest he isn't attempting to do any business

I wouldn't put andrews in that defensive midfield role, more of a box to box goalscorer from what was talked about before he came.

I think he's worried about playing vela in all honesty, upsetting the apple cart so to speak in case it doesn't work out with the young lad.

I'd be surprised if he didn't bring in another body before the end of the window but I wouldn't imagine the board will be happy to piss away 3million on spearing.

Well the proof is in the pudding Hipster, I suppose.

I'm sure you would agree he should have got cover for Holden - if not last summer, certainly in January - and he didn't - and it cost us big time.

He's since lost Muamba and NRC - with just Andrews in.

Yes he's got Vela - not even on the bench first two games - Ream - tried in midfield for us and I think you will agree - failed there, and Pratley who has done nothing but disappoint up to now.

My initial point was that surely Coyle has got other targets on his list other than The Rock, who did nothing other than fanny around - so why didn't he just move on to the next midfielder identified?

Yes, there are wages to be paid and maybe a transfer fee to be found but surely that's going to be the price we will have to pay because on the evidence of the first three games our current midfield doesn't contribute either in the creation of goals or the protection of defence - no wonder Knight, Mears and Bogdan have been told to lump it over their heads to the forwards!

We aren't going to get promotion with the tactics and the team we have right now - and you can gladly quote me on that.

Sluffy, really can't agree with anyone having a pop at Coyle for sending Holden training gear in the post.

Just seems like nit-picking to me.

Lots of relevant points/criticisms in your posts but you (and others) on here kind of give themselves away as unimpartial/got the knives out by moaning about things like that, which are either a positive or an irrelevance.

Coyle appears to have been trying to find the right midfielder for over a month now. K Cisse, C Sanches, J Spearing.

I feel sure we will sign one on or before deadline day, the only issue is will it be someone quality who has been well scouted, or will it be a panic signing who clearly has no role but adds an extra body.

largehat wrote:Sluffy, really can't agree with anyone having a pop at Coyle for sending Holden training gear in the post.

Just seems like nit-picking to me.

Lots of relevant points/criticisms in your posts but you (and others) on here kind of give themselves away as unimpartial/got the knives out by moaning about things like that, which are either a positive or an irrelevance.

Don't care what you think mate to be tbh.

I would have done it in his position.

Being a manager involves people skills - Coyle is dealing with young male millionaires.

Do you think your star player will get the 'feel good factor' when his training top shows up in the post from his manager or do you think he might think more of it if he turned up on your doorstep with it himself and possibly bring one or two of the lads along as well?

He probably gets calls from Coyle and Skype and other such social media contacts but there really is nothing better to make you feel important than someone to go out of there way to see you personally.

It's the little things that are the most important to people and what they remember the longest - seems that neither you or Coyle know nor understand this.

Anyway I hope the mailman's delivered his two shirts and training top by now, I'm sure he's been dying to try them on!

Sluffy wrote:
It's the little things that are the most important to people and what they remember the longest - seems that neither you or Coyle know nor understand this.

I don't know, you'd have to ask some of the (off the top of my head) 200 or so people I've managed in the last 10 years whether I understand whether to make people feel important or not. I do know for a fact that none of the people who've ever worked for me have ever made a complaint about me and that I've won awards, but don't let what you don't know about someone get in the way of a generalisation in a post about training kit delivery methods.

You describe the training kit as "turning up in the post", blithely assuming that Holden was sat at home one day scratching his millionaire arse and there wsa a courier at the door with a large parcel. How do you know Coyle didn't ring him in advance?

We DO know that Coyle wrote a letter to accompany the training kit, this seems like a strange thing to do for someone who you describe as having no idea about "the little things". What was he thinking? He should have just stuck one of those compliment slips in you get when you order something from the club shop.

As I say, you just read something about Coyle and assume the worst because of your knives out agenda - that's my opinion, of course it would have been nice to spend thousands of pounds flying Coyle and team mates over to Texas to hand deliver the parcel, I seem to remember you and others having a major issue with taking the players on a training trip to the Middle East late last season on the basis of cost. Can't do right for doing wrong really if your name is Coyle.

Do you actual read posts fully first or just go off on one after the first sentence?

I’ve already dealt with these points in my previous post –

largehat wrote:
You describe the training kit as "turning up in the post", blithely assuming that Holden was sat at home one day scratching his millionaire arse and there wsa a courier at the door with a large parcel. How do you know Coyle didn't ring him in advance?

We DO know that Coyle wrote a letter to accompany the training kit, this seems like a strange thing to do for someone who you describe as having no idea about "the little things". What was he thinking? He should have just stuck one of those compliment slips in you get when you order something from the club shop.

　

Sluffy wrote:He probably gets calls from Coyle and Skype and other such social media contacts but there really is nothing better to make you feel important than someone to go out of there way to see you personally.

largehat wrote:
As I say, you just read something about Coyle and assume the worst because of your knives out agenda - that's my opinion, of course it would have been nice to spend thousands of pounds flying Coyle and team mates over to Texas to hand deliver the parcel, I seem to remember you and others having a major issue with taking the players on a training trip to the Middle East late last season on the basis of cost. Can't do right for doing wrong really if your name is Coyle.

As for this I think there may be massive difference prise wise between paying for the WHOLE of the squad and backroom staff to go to the Middle East (and what fucking good did it do them results wise!) and Coyle and maybe one or two others popping over to the States to see a much valued and long term injured colleague!

　

Finally

largehat wrote:
I don't know, you'd have to ask some of the (off the top of my head) 200 or so people I've managed in the last 10 years whether I understand whether to make people feel important or not. I do know for a fact that none of the people who've ever worked for me have ever made a complaint about me and that I've won awards, but don't let what you don't know about someone get in the way of a generalisation in a post about training kit delivery methods.

Well if you’ve been dealing with 200, twenty something year old millionaires, then I will stand corrected by you but somehow I doubt you have.

Management of resources has to be relevant to the environment in which you are in. They give out awards at McDonalds for management I believe, I’m not sure that this would necessarily mean that they are good managers in say a professional environment – or indeed visa versa.

The people I’ve met with the best inter personal skills usually have received no training in it what so ever, they are born with a natural ability to make people feel special.

I’m sure Stuart felt really special when the mailman called with his parcel though!

Sluffy wrote:Do you actual read posts fully first or just go off on one after the first sentence?

Yes I do actually. If I read your posts and then disagree, it's my right to say why. 2 replies from you and 2 unnecessary comments about me personally now, Sluffy. Not great.

Sluffy wrote:
I’ve already dealt with these points in my previous post –

He probably gets calls from Coyle and Skype and other such social media contacts but there really is nothing better to make you feel important than someone to go out of there way to see you personally.

I don't think you did "deal with this point", I can't see anything about writing a letter in there - apologies if I have missed that, but writing a letter is considered far more personal than social media and Skype IMO. If you disagree, fine, just say that.

Sluffy wrote:
As for this I think there may be massive difference prise wise between paying for the WHOLE of the squad and backroom staff to go to the Middle East (and what fucking good did it do them results wise!) and Coyle and maybe one or two others popping over to the States to see a much valued and long term injured colleague!

Yes, of course there is a massive price difference between transporting 3-4 people to the USA and 30-odd people to the Middle East.

However, at a time when the club was making staff redundant, you're wanting the club to have spent crazy money on people delivering a parcel in person, I think that can be far more easily described as wasteful than a football training camp for footballers to get warm weather training.
　

Sluffy wrote:
Well if you’ve been dealing with 200, twenty something year old millionaires, then I will stand corrected by you but somehow I doubt you have.

No not really, you don't have to manage millionaires to appreciate that (to quote you) :

"It's the little things that are the most important to people and what they remember the longest - seems that neither you or Coyle know nor understand this"

You're on very thin ground making blind assumptions about me or anyone else, you can speak about someone like Coyle with knowledge because his work is in the public eye - mine isn't, and on a general note it's unwise just to assume you're talking to someone who "doesn't know or doesn't understand" something just because they happen to disagree with you - a bit patronising really.

Sluffy wrote:
Management of resources has to be relevant to the environment in which you are in. They give out awards at McDonalds for management I believe, I’m not sure that this would necessarily mean that they are good managers in say a professional environment – or indeed visa versa.

Not that I've ever worked for McDonalds or anyone in their industry, but I don't doubt they have some very strong managers in such a successful company.

Jesus, you just argue for arguing’s sake.

I've made my point.

I think most people will accept it and quite frankly I just don't give a stuff what you think (and I doubt very much that I'm the only one that feels that way as well).

It's you who are the one whose arguing just for the sake of it trying to put me right remember!

As far as I'm concerned, I thought I was just having a chat with someone about the football and Coyle. I think your criticism of Coyle for posting Holden his training kit is unfair. I've explained why I think so.

Your posts have an agitated tone and contain a number of personal remarks about me.

Which doesn't really tally with someone who keeps saying they don\t give a shit what I think.

I think you've got me completely wrong, but I can't do a lot about that, Like you say, you've made your point, I've drawn conclusions from our discussion, no doubt you have and no doubt others will do the same.