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Is this a good idea?

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1Is this a good idea? Empty Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 09:47

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Giving 25 year olds £10,000 seems crazy but there are some very good recommendations in this report, particularly scrapping council tax and replacing it with a new property tax targeting wealthier homeowners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44029808

2Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 09:58

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bad idea. They should give it to 65 year olds,who will use it wisely.

3Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 11:00

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Looking at the figures, the younger generation are hardly worse off then we were. They seem to be basing the argument on younger people not owning as much property, which is more of a reflection on the trend to prefer renting and the availability of rental property due to older folks using property in lieu of a proper pension. 
if older folks don't have a proper pension, but have developed property as a means to keep them and pay for their care in old age, does that make them "better off"? I don't think that's necessarily the case and anyhoo who would expect millenials to own their own homes? - they could only have worked for a few years at most to save up, compared to the 40 odd years that older folk have paid into the system.
To me it stinks of younger people assuming that their parents had always had their own place and the feeling of a divine right to own property without putting in the years of work and contribution to the State. Equally it stinks of politicians attempting to appease younger folks instead of sorting out the economy.

4Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 11:05

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:Giving 25 year olds £10,000 seems crazy but there are some very good recommendations in this report, particularly scrapping council tax and replacing it with a new property tax targeting wealthier homeowners.


Totally agree with scrapping council tax, it's a farce of a system.

5Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 11:31

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Wish I could scrap the water bill. Ours is £48 a month. Ridiculous.

6Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 11:55

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I think this report is genuinely deeply flawed. There is no such thing as an 'inter generational contract'- that's an invention  of the authors. Relationships haven't broken down, there isn't a whole generation who are angry. Society isn't static- things change from generation to generation.  The problem is an economic one and mainly based on property and its acquisition. Its harder to buy a property these days because of property prices- that's an economic problem not a societal one. Build more of them on brown land. Get away from the idea that every property must have its own front and back garden. Many other countries and cities have accepted the idea of living in flats/ apartments -so the next generation ( who have no divine right to inherit in the same way as previous generations) need to engage in a little expectation management.
The problem is also that we older people are living longer and so the next generation won't inherit until they're in their 50s or 60s . I'm not going to die just so my kids can get my house!
I think that there is a point about National Insurance- which is neither national nor insurance- it is simply a form of added income tax- no more and no less and its crying out for reform. I'm over 65 and still working, but not paying NICs and there is a case for saying that I should. But call it what it is- income tax.
Inheritance tax is a dogs breakfast- it raises less than 1% of all the tax take and again is crying out for reform. It is an arbitrary tax and often taxes already taxed income.
Its a vicious tax ,which at the current rate hits ordinary working people who have managed to acquire a decent property ,who's value has gone up because of the shortage of property. It doesn't give you additional liquidity to go and spend a fortune on a lavish life style as you can't sell a part of a house. You are stuck with an unusable capital gain
But this report can't really be taken seriously. I think its just there as a straw man to be kicked about a bit

7Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 11:58

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Is this a good idea? DJ2KPtOXkAAq2XV?format=jpg&name=small

8Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:04

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Is this a good idea? DJ2KPtOXkAAq2XV?format=jpg&name=small

So what's the solution? Build more houses! And this poor bugger will almost certainly have to pay inheritance tax on his' very ordinary' property

9Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:12

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I don’t disagree with you Rammy. And I don’t think giving £10,000 out is a solution. Just putting some context into what my generation are dealing with. In terms of home ownership.

10Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:15

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I just bought a house after many many years renting.

I would recommend moving to Scotland a lot of very reasonable prices for some nice homes.

11Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:26

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You still look miserable though Hipster

Is this a good idea? Maxresdefault

12Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:26

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@T.R.O.Y wrote:I don’t disagree with you Rammy. And I don’t think giving £10,000 out is a solution. Just putting some context into what my generation are dealing with. In terms of home ownership.

When I bought my first house in Egerton in 1980 from a mate it cost me £9000 and I borrowed £8000 from the then Middlleton Building society. But I got tax relief on the interest - so that's something the government could consider. They abolished it because they felt that it 'corrupted 'the housing market- those who rent got nothing, those who buy got some tax relief.The solution is not just hand outs of (say) £10,000 because all that will happen is that the builders will put £10,000 on the price of a house as they know you've got the money.  Demand much more social housing to get more people on the housing ladder. Disallow landlords to buy new properties as they do in a lot of places down south. We need much more housing legislation but above all a lot more housing. My current house in Rammy cost me £100,000 in 1989 and its worth a lot now- but the government will have a large chunk of it when both me and the missus pop our clogs.

13Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:28

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:I just bought a house after many many years renting.

I would recommend moving to Scotland a lot of very reasonable prices for some nice homes.

Dead right Hipster and a fantastic place to live!!

Scots wha hae!!

14Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:30

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:You still look miserable though Hipster

Is this a good idea? Maxresdefault
He must have bought a job lot of those string vests. Very Happy



Last edited by karlypants on Tue May 08 2018, 12:38; edited 1 time in total

15Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:35

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Is this a good idea? DJ2KPtOXkAAq2XV?format=jpg&name=small

It shows how flawed this argument is when the buyer states that nowadays a "very ordinary property is valued at £650,000.00"
The average cost for a semi-detached is £225K!
Clearly this bloke was lucky enough to buy something in a very well-to-do area (i.e. Grantham) that has seen house prices rise disproportionately to the national average.

So if the current average salary of a 25 year old is £25k then the house was bought for the equivalent of £87,500. No mention of the condition it was in or whether it included 3 acres of land or not.
Add to that nearly 60 years of maintenance, improvements and (knowing Grantham) extensions and upgrades (so perhaps additional cost of several hundred thousand over the years) and it starts to make sense.

The guy says it's impossible for young people but that's bollocks when you can still pick up a ruin in the auctions for peanuts and build it up over the years as we had to do. There are more private individuals getting into property development nowadays than in my lifetime to date so this idiot is talking out of his arse.
Problem is that people see their parents houses that have they have had to pay to develop over many, many years and expect to enter the market with the finished deal instead of starting out in Moss Side or Darwen and working their way up the ladder.
Expectation management and parenting has a lot to do with this "issue".

16Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 12:42

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@rammywhite wrote:
@T.R.O.Y wrote:I don’t disagree with you Rammy. And I don’t think giving £10,000 out is a solution. Just putting some context into what my generation are dealing with. In terms of home ownership.

When I bought my first house in Egerton in 1980 from a mate it cost me £9000 and I borrowed £8000 from the then Middlleton Building society. But I got tax relief on the interest - so that's something the government could consider. They abolished it because they felt that it 'corrupted 'the housing market- those who rent got nothing, those who buy got some tax relief.The solution is not just hand outs of (say) £10,000 because all that will happen is that the builders will put £10,000 on the price of a house as they know you've got the money.  Demand much more social housing to get more people on the housing ladder. Disallow landlords to buy new properties as they do in a lot of places down south. We need much more housing legislation but above all a lot more housing. My current house in Rammy cost me £100,000 in 1989 and its worth a lot now- but the government will have a large chunk of it when both me and the missus pop our clogs.

Really interesting Rammy thanks, my knowledge in this dress is pretty limited. Living in London means I don’t really consider home ownership as a realistic option at the moment.

Agree with you that the main issue is supply at present, personally I think this needs to be driven by the government placing the responsibility with private firms just hasn’t worked.

17Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 13:42

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@boltonbonce wrote:Wish I could scrap the water bill. Ours is £48 a month. Ridiculous.

Have you checked to see whether you have a leak?

And yes I can see what kind of reply I am going to get. Smile

18Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 13:48

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
One policy which would help stop house prices continuing to rise would be to stop foreign investors buying residential properties. Some countries like New Zealand only allow residents to buy property. In this country most new build residential properties are bought by foreign investors as investments. They get a generous safe return and often the properties are not even let.

19Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 13:49

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I wish my water bill was £48 a month Boncey, try £73  Shocked

20Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 13:56

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:I wish my water bill was £48 a month Boncey, try £73  Shocked
affraid

21Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 15:00

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Norpig wrote:I wish my water bill was £48 a month Boncey, try £73  Shocked

Do you have a swimming pool?

22Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 15:13

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
unfortunately not xmiles, no idea why it's that high, perhaps Manchester pay more for some reason? I don't have a water meter and would probably be more if i did. 2 kids and a never ending round of washing machine being on and baths  Very Happy

23Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 15:19

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@boltonbonce wrote:
@Norpig wrote:I wish my water bill was £48 a month Boncey, try £73  Shocked
affraid


I pay £26- but that's Rammy where we don't wash and have communal latrines

24Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 15:21

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Why am i getting stung with such high prices? Never really thought about it before but need to dig out my united utilities bill now!

25Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 15:31

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Non metered houses go off house size. It should be the same where you are as you have UU as well.

I wish I didn’t have a meter, 1month of average usage for 2 adults and a nearly 2-year old and 1 jetwash of the back cost me around £70 and my patio area isn’t that big! Shocked

26Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 15:32

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
That's what happens when you live in Manchester with the inflated house prices then, i only have a three bed semi not a mansion  Rolling Eyes

27Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 16:15

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:That's what happens when you live in Manchester with the inflated house prices then, i only have a three bed semi not a mansion  Rolling Eyes
A semi is all I can manage these days. Very Happy

28Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 16:34

Bollotom2014

Bollotom2014
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
But aren't water rates also inclusive of sewerage rates? Darn 'ere in that there Landan my Dad's rates are around £290 a year. Not metered (and don't want to be). The cost is for water and waste water and surface water run off and a bit towards the Thames Tideway Tunnel, so all in all is quite reasonable. There's me Mum, Dad, Pain in the arse sister never out of the bathroom, two dogs who love rolling in mud, a swimming pool and a garden, though we also have two massive water butts that generally do most of the garden needs.
Xmiles has the right idea, only residents able to buy property, same as "Land banking" those pirates should have to pay additional taxes or build houses.

29Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 18:41

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
No water bills in Scotland it's lumped in with council tax

30Is this a good idea? Empty Re: Is this a good idea? on Tue May 08 2018, 18:50

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
All part of the massive subsidy English taxpayers provide to Scotland no doubt.

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