Brexit negotiations

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:3. I have never stated "only uneducated people voted to leave". Show me where I said that or apologise.

Ok, I apologise, you stated "less well educated people" voted for leave. But the implication is still the same, that people like me weren't clever enough to decide for themselves.

Apology accepted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46386737

I wonder if this will just be a damp squib - assuming it happens. Corbyn needs to stop making ludicrous excuses first of course.

xmiles wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46386737

I wonder if this will just be a damp squib - assuming it happens. Corbyn needs to stop making ludicrous excuses first of course.

 This just sums up brexit perfectly, can't even agree what channel to have a debate on 

Looking at the overall vote I think it's clear that Education was much less of a factor than age. The oldest group of voters, particularly those of 65+ voted hugely in favour of Leave. I think a large part of the reason for that was the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia. People like my dad waxed lyrical about an England that so far as I can tell never really existed outside a film or book. Farage played that card particularly adroitly with his tweed jackets, woollen ties and lots of shots of him in "ye olde pub" drinking brown beer. He was so blatant about it that I half expected him to pull on some driving gloves and jump into an Austin Seven, stopping off to watch some cricket on the village green before heading back to his thatched cottage in the cotswolds. I wouldn't have been surprised to see Noel Coward and Jack Hawkins pop up somewhere with a voice over by Laurence Olivier and extra narration by John Mills.

Unfortunately too many of the older generation believed the hogwash and think somehow that the Empire will rise again once we're "free" of those swarthy Johnny Foreigners who've come here to steal our jobs and corrupt our womenfolk. The fact they won't have to live with the long term consequences of the utter disaster that Brexit will be only makes the whole thing even more tragic imo.

At the risk of (unintentionally) upetting Nat again I show below the figures the YouGov poll gave. The splits for age and education are very similar.

Age 18-24: 29% voted leave 71% remain
Age 65+ : 64% voted leave 36% remain

GCSE or lower: 70% voted leave 30% remain
Degree : 32% voted leave 68% remain

xmiles wrote:At the risk of (unintentionally) upetting Nat again I show below the figures the YouGov poll gave. The splits for age and education are very similar.

Age 18-24: 29% voted leave 71% remain
Age 65+   : 64% voted leave 36% remain

GCSE or lower: 70% voted leave 30% remain
Degree         : 32% voted leave 68% remain

Whilst I have sympathy with where you are coming from I would point out that I am old and when I did my first degree only 1% of the population went on to get a degree compared to the numerous degrees they hand out today. Basically it’s the same stat as being old = no degree. 
I voted remain though.

wanderlust wrote:

xmiles wrote:At the risk of (unintentionally) upetting Nat again I show below the figures the YouGov poll gave. The splits for age and education are very similar.

Age 18-24: 29% voted leave 71% remain
Age 65+   : 64% voted leave 36% remain

GCSE or lower: 70% voted leave 30% remain
Degree         : 32% voted leave 68% remain

Whilst I have sympathy with where you are coming from I would point out that I am old and when I did my first degree only 1% of the population went on to get a degree compared to the numerous degrees they hand out today. Basically it’s the same stat as being old = no degree. 
I voted remain though.

The same survey gave these figures for how people voted in the 2015 general election:

Tory : 61% voted leave 39% remain
Labour : 35% voted leave 65% remain

So even if you were an old Tory voter with only a very basic education it does not mean you voted leave, although it is far more likely that you did.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dunkels King wrote:They would rather be worse off with no future opportunities for their children and grand children than admit it is a bit of a disaster.

When we leave the EU the world doesn't end you know. Do you understand that there are countries outside the EU that run just as well as countries in the EU.

There might be a time of adjustment but we'll get on with it, despite the bleating and whinging.

As for your children and grandchildren having no opportunities, that might well be true, but it won't be because of Brexit it'll be down to the rising sea levels and ever hotter climate. Yet I don't see you having a meltdown about that. Do you honestly think Brexit is more of a threat to future generations than global warming?

Start a thread about Global Warming and we can discuss my opinions. This thread is about Brexit. The time of adjustment will be more than ten years. I hope you have stocked up on Twirls before the price doubles. No one will agree a useful trade deal with the UK because we have nothing to trade, apart from Colmans Mustard, shit beer and Carrs pasties. Everything else is owned and run by foreign companies who will be off like a shot as soon as they see the EU grants that they get for starting up production lines and factories in Poland and Lithuania.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Looking at the overall vote I think it's clear that Education was much less of a factor than age. The oldest group of voters, particularly those of 65+ voted hugely in favour of Leave. I think a large part of the reason for that was the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia. People like my dad waxed lyrical about an England that so far as I can tell never really existed outside a film or book. Farage played that card particularly adroitly with his tweed jackets, woollen ties and lots of shots of him in "ye olde pub" drinking brown beer. He was so blatant about it that I half expected him to pull on some driving gloves and jump into an Austin Seven, stopping off to watch some cricket on the village green before heading back to his thatched cottage in the cotswolds. I wouldn't have been surprised to see Noel Coward and Jack Hawkins pop up somewhere with a voice over by Laurence Olivier and extra narration by John Mills.

Unfortunately too many of the older generation believed the hogwash and think somehow that the Empire will rise again once we're "free" of those swarthy Johnny Foreigners who've come here to steal our jobs and corrupt our womenfolk. The fact they won't have to live with the long term consequences of the utter disaster that Brexit will be only makes the whole thing even more tragic imo.

This is as true as it gets.

Dunkels King wrote:Start a thread about Global Warming and we can discuss my opinions. This thread is about Brexit. The time of adjustment will be more than ten years. I hope you have stocked up on Twirls before the price doubles. No one will agree a useful trade deal with the UK because we have nothing to trade, apart from Colmans Mustard, shit beer and Carrs pasties. Everything else is owned and run by foreign companies who will be off like a shot as soon as they see the EU grants that they get for starting up production lines and factories in Poland and Lithuania.

I'm not going to fall for your scare tactics, I've been assured that the price of Twirls will not increase.

p.s. there is a thread about global warming, I'm looking forward to your comments.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dunkels King wrote:Start a thread about Global Warming and we can discuss my opinions. This thread is about Brexit. The time of adjustment will be more than ten years. I hope you have stocked up on Twirls before the price doubles. No one will agree a useful trade deal with the UK because we have nothing to trade, apart from Colmans Mustard, shit beer and Carrs pasties. Everything else is owned and run by foreign companies who will be off like a shot as soon as they see the EU grants that they get for starting up production lines and factories in Poland and Lithuania.

I'm not going to fall for your scare tactics, I've been assured that the price of Twirls will not increase.

p.s. there is a thread about global warming, I'm looking forward to your comments.

Is that the thread where the last post was made in March 2013?

Looks like we’re going to fall behind in the technology race too. UK science minister resigns over May’s proposed deal.

Looks like we’ll lose the £1.4 Billion we’ve already invested in Galileo and have to find anything up to £30 Billion to build our own alternative. May has already proposed spending £92 million just on a feasibility study FFS. Not sure how the British Army will be able to operate without it going forward unless we crawl further under the thumb of the Americans but that will give them even more access to our secrets.
Really baffles me how dumb this fiasco is.

Unbelievable that May and her brexit cronies are still trying to wriggle out of publishing the unedited legal advice given on the deal she has negotiated despite facing the possibility of being the first government in history to be found in contempt of parliament.

Anyone that might have suspected they were trying to push it through without telling either parliament or the British people what it was they have actually agreed to can only be convinced by their continued attempts not to publish.

Surely if there was nothing to hide, they would just get on with it?

wanderlust wrote:Unbelievable that May and her brexit cronies are still trying to wriggle out of publishing the unedited legal advice given on the deal she has negotiated despite facing the possibility of being the first government in history to be found in contempt of parliament.

Anyone that might have suspected they were trying to push it through without telling either parliament or the British people what it was they have actually agreed to can only be convinced by their continued attempts not to publish.

Surely if there was nothing to hide, they would just get on with it?

Back in May 2007 sent a letter to Tony Blair calling for the publication of the government's legal advice for the Iraq war, so asking her to do the same for the Brexit legal advice hardly seems unreasonable.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:If people voted to leave the EU for economic reasons they are likely to have changed their minds about leaving unless they are so paranoid about being perceived to have been wrong they are prepared to cut off their own nose to spite their face.
If people voted to leave the EU for xenophobic reasons it really doesn’t matter which xenophobic politician or publication persuaded them as they are xenophobes anyway and will never like or trust our European partners - although they may wish to consider the “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” argument - I.e. stay in to have an influence.
I think the only relevant question now is how bad does it have to get before the leave lobby grow the balls to admit that leaving the EU is and always has been a stupid mistake and drop the whole Brexit nonsense.

Unfortunately it's already too late for that lusty. Once Article 50 was invoked the clock began an unstoppable countdown. The Scottish government are attempting to argue they have the right to unilaterally opt to stay in the EU in court as we speak but since Scotland is NOT an EU member in its own right I can't see them winning. Frankly the whole business is an unmitigated disaster brought on by an arrogant fool (Cameron), supported by a bunch of people I wouldn't allow into my house (eg Farage and the entire Murdoch organisation) whose lies were swallowed whole by a bunch of middle class, middle England voters who seem to live in a world that never existed outside the confines of Ealing Studios or Pinewood.

Whatever the leavers may say our children and grandchildren will pay a very heavy price for that self delusion and short sightedness. Britain will become more irrelevant on the world stage by the day and that it won't be long before all the major foreign companies who have bases and factories here will move them all to mainland Europe because of the various tarriffs and duties that are going to come in once we're no longer an EU member.

Apparently you’re wrong Peter. TopEU lawyer has today said we can change our minds at any time despite what our dodgy government and the EU have said at any time. Here

So let’s just forget the whole sorry affair by having a proper vote on it where all British people are allowed to vote and having been given the facts.
All the facts that is.

Just found this gem:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjxwY3DtYbfAhXFCMAKHWvyDaQQFjAAegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2018%2F05%2F15%2Ftrump-threatens-use-us-trade-talks-force-nhs-pay-drugs%2F&usg=AOvVaw3BOVIpUaPskleOEi7gN7IG

All this and chlorine flavoured chicken. So much for taking back control!

The drug issue is interesting as whilst the NHS uses it’s massive purchasing power to lower the unit cost of drugs, the EU doesn’t so we all missed a trick there.

May Corbyn tv debate not looking likely:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46444061

Good!

Why ruin Sunday repeating the same old bollocks!!

Three defeats for May today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694