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I'm not sure the EFL would allow any deal to go ahead in which Loggenberg is a player even if his only role is to 'facilitate' matters. Frankly I think Wigan, like so many other clubs in the North West including ourselves are living on borrowed time even if a deal is done. There are just too many clubs here and not enough supporters available to make them all financially viable in the long term. I've said and continue to believe that eventually some of us are going to have no choice but to merge with local 'rivals' if we are to survive. That's nothing to do with the pandemic, it's been blatantly obvious for decades that most fans are not interested in turning out and watching a league one or two team if they can watch the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool from their own home. Add in the massive gaps in revenue from all sources and it becomes even more starkly clear that the days of local teams being able to compete are long gone and they're not coming back. Sad but true imo.
Wigan in Administration
+21
Growler
Sluffy
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25 posters
Message [Page 32 of 42]
632 Re: Wigan in Administration Sun Jan 17 2021, 09:32
Ten Bobsworth
Frank Worthington
Can't say I've been following the Wiggin saga a lot but I see I that I posted this in November 2018.
Can't blame him (Ken Anderson) for what happened this morning either. Hope the negotiations for a sale of his shares are progressing a bit better and that there's a positive result before Christmas.
Looks btw that Wiggin are now run by Joe Royle, his son and a Hong Kong solicitor. Be interesting to see how that works out
Can't blame him (Ken Anderson) for what happened this morning either. Hope the negotiations for a sale of his shares are progressing a bit better and that there's a positive result before Christmas.
Looks btw that Wiggin are now run by Joe Royle, his son and a Hong Kong solicitor. Be interesting to see how that works out
633 Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Jan 20 2021, 12:38
Sluffy
Admin
It's all happening at Wigan...
...and it all seems to be bad!
Let me set the scene, the Admin had seen to go all in on an offer from a Spanish consortium that clearly right from the start had at least one questionable person associated with it who seemed unlikely to pass the EFL Fit and Proper Person test and so it proved. What was worse though was that it clearly seemed this bloke was the lead player in the bid and if he dropped out the consortium would too - guess what they did - so that was the end of that.
Another rival group led by an ex pat Wiganer called Frampton claimed he had got in first for the club before the Spanish but the Admin had frozen him out!
He claimed some utterly bizarre scheme whereby he would build hospitals and schools in Wigan and whatever else the community needed and the revenue surplus from running these would finance the football club.
Amazingly when the Spanish walked away this bid appeared to be the next best runner with almost all of the Wigan fans believing it would succeed - they must be the most deluded fans in the world I guess because clearly why would anyone want to spent absolute millions to build hospitals and schools to prop up a football club??? Doesn't make any rational sense does it?
Anyway, reports last night are that Frampton has now walked away.
Wigan's Marc Iles equivalent confirming it here -
If things aren't bad enough for the Wigan fans the Administrators have issued a Creditors Report.
It's being processed at Companies House - check the link because it might have been done by the time others read this -
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00270043/filing-history
...but this person 'claims' this is what it contains including a 30% 'uplift' in Administrators fees - which if true has really incensed the Wigan fans!
...and this man -
...and this one too!
Hard to see where this will end as Admin and Nixon claim there are plenty others interested in buying the club but what exactly is there left to buy and why would anyone want to spend millions to do so?
As I understand it the only assets the club has is a stadium they can't fill and runs at a loss and a bunch of talented kids - but have they got enough of them to cover the £3m sale price and estimated £5m running costs for the next two years?
It is claimed by the Admin that 'add ons' from players they have already sold to keep Wigan going will bring in several millions but can the club survive until then AND will those players ever actually 'trigger' these add on deals?
All looks like a massive car crash is about to happen to me.
Things need to be sorted soon otherwise there's not going to be any money left for the club to keep trading.
I'll stick with my original thinking that the Supporters Group will with help from the Council and the rugby club come together to strike some deal to keep the club alive but that may have to be as a non league club.
Grim times for them.
...and it all seems to be bad!
Let me set the scene, the Admin had seen to go all in on an offer from a Spanish consortium that clearly right from the start had at least one questionable person associated with it who seemed unlikely to pass the EFL Fit and Proper Person test and so it proved. What was worse though was that it clearly seemed this bloke was the lead player in the bid and if he dropped out the consortium would too - guess what they did - so that was the end of that.
Another rival group led by an ex pat Wiganer called Frampton claimed he had got in first for the club before the Spanish but the Admin had frozen him out!
He claimed some utterly bizarre scheme whereby he would build hospitals and schools in Wigan and whatever else the community needed and the revenue surplus from running these would finance the football club.
Amazingly when the Spanish walked away this bid appeared to be the next best runner with almost all of the Wigan fans believing it would succeed - they must be the most deluded fans in the world I guess because clearly why would anyone want to spent absolute millions to build hospitals and schools to prop up a football club??? Doesn't make any rational sense does it?
Anyway, reports last night are that Frampton has now walked away.
Wigan's Marc Iles equivalent confirming it here -
What now for Wigan Athletic? What a mess. #wafchttps://t.co/1pbCBKNvUy
— Paul Kendrick (@PKendrickWIG) January 20, 2021
If things aren't bad enough for the Wigan fans the Administrators have issued a Creditors Report.
It's being processed at Companies House - check the link because it might have been done by the time others read this -
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00270043/filing-history
...but this person 'claims' this is what it contains including a 30% 'uplift' in Administrators fees - which if true has really incensed the Wigan fans!
For those asking, here are the relevant sections of the report which detail time costs. Remember the estimate is the basic rate and doesn’t include the one third uplift agreed with Mr Au Yeung
— David Casey (@adavidcasey) January 19, 2021#wafc pic.twitter.com/L8CvJF93Rh
...and this man -
I’ve just seen the administrators current fees at #wafc for the “job” they are doing at Wigan circa £1.3m !
— Simon Jordan (@Sjopinion10) January 20, 2021
Plus estimate, another £600k plus a 30% uplift , so this admin could cost £2.5m
Almost legalised larceny ... when I said license to print money I meant it .chasers
...and this one too!
Odd that global accounting firm KPMG charging £212 per hour for an administration (https://t.co/5oC9FX30tf) but smaller ones are charging £358 ph (
— PriceOfFootball (@KieranMaguire) January 8, 2021to £476 for a successful sale) for Wigan Athletic & £351 ph for Bolton. Is the football industry getting a good deal? #WAFC #BWFC pic.twitter.com/ldfOb7sN1r
Hard to see where this will end as Admin and Nixon claim there are plenty others interested in buying the club but what exactly is there left to buy and why would anyone want to spend millions to do so?
As I understand it the only assets the club has is a stadium they can't fill and runs at a loss and a bunch of talented kids - but have they got enough of them to cover the £3m sale price and estimated £5m running costs for the next two years?
It is claimed by the Admin that 'add ons' from players they have already sold to keep Wigan going will bring in several millions but can the club survive until then AND will those players ever actually 'trigger' these add on deals?
All looks like a massive car crash is about to happen to me.
Things need to be sorted soon otherwise there's not going to be any money left for the club to keep trading.
I'll stick with my original thinking that the Supporters Group will with help from the Council and the rugby club come together to strike some deal to keep the club alive but that may have to be as a non league club.
Grim times for them.
634 money out the door Wed Jan 20 2021, 12:55
RangersDave
Mario Jardel
Great report Sluffy,
However, the fire sale now has to ramp up at Wigan because no one is going to pay for a club and ground that is lost so much money, needs £xxx to just take over the club, plus its losing £10k per week just in running costs (i think this is way too low anyway, and more like £250k per week for staff, players, ground and maintenance etc).
Add that to the 1/3'd you reported, and 2 failed bids. It will have peeps running in the other direction, not investing, unless they can get the 'package' for around £1.5m or less, plus still show the have nearly £10m in the bank to satisfy the powers that be.
For any club looking on, now is the time to feast on the carcass of whats left i'm afraid.
Oh, and i forgot the loan from the Football League of around £300k too.
However, the fire sale now has to ramp up at Wigan because no one is going to pay for a club and ground that is lost so much money, needs £xxx to just take over the club, plus its losing £10k per week just in running costs (i think this is way too low anyway, and more like £250k per week for staff, players, ground and maintenance etc).
Add that to the 1/3'd you reported, and 2 failed bids. It will have peeps running in the other direction, not investing, unless they can get the 'package' for around £1.5m or less, plus still show the have nearly £10m in the bank to satisfy the powers that be.
For any club looking on, now is the time to feast on the carcass of whats left i'm afraid.
Oh, and i forgot the loan from the Football League of around £300k too.
635 Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Jan 20 2021, 14:59
Ten Bobsworth
Frank Worthington
I strongly suspect that Maguire is not comparing like with like on administrators fees. But didn't Eddie Davies avoid administration, with all its attendant risks, problems and costs, by choosing to give Ken Anderson the chance to see if he could pull off what Eddie had been unable to do over the previous five years or so?
And didn't Anderson make a charge of £525K for halting the slide on an exceedingly slippery slope and helping get the club back into the Championship? And didn't that £525K prove beyond all reasonable doubt how big a rogue Anderson was, even though £60K was never paid out and the rest of the money went to Holdsworth and the liquidators of Holdsworth's Sports Shield BWFC?
Do you think, Sluffy, that Maguire (or anyone else for that matter) has ever grasped any of this?
And didn't Anderson make a charge of £525K for halting the slide on an exceedingly slippery slope and helping get the club back into the Championship? And didn't that £525K prove beyond all reasonable doubt how big a rogue Anderson was, even though £60K was never paid out and the rest of the money went to Holdsworth and the liquidators of Holdsworth's Sports Shield BWFC?
Do you think, Sluffy, that Maguire (or anyone else for that matter) has ever grasped any of this?
636 Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Jan 20 2021, 15:51
Sluffy
Admin
Ten Bobsworth wrote:I strongly suspect that Maguire is not comparing like with like on administrators fees. But didn't Eddie Davies avoid administration, with all its attendant risks, problems and costs, by choosing to give Ken Anderson the chance to see if he could pull off what Eddie had been unable to do over the previous five years or so?
And didn't Anderson make a charge of £525K for halting the slide on an exceedingly slippery slope and helping get the club back into the Championship? And didn't that £525K prove beyond all reasonable doubt how big a rogue Anderson was, even though £60K was never paid out and the rest of the money went to Holdsworth and the liquidators of Holdsworth's Sports Shield BWFC?
Do you think, Sluffy, that Maguire (or anyone else for that matter) has ever grasped any of this?
I suspect very few people not in the know about what was going on had much interest and if I recall correctly wasn't Maguire one of the loudest voices and biggest influencers, as to the hatred of Anderson when the accounts showed the payment to him and strongly implied that he had pocketed the money to enrich himself!
Fair play to your knowledge and professionalism to be able to see deeper into it than anyone else (certainly anyone I've seen on social media) and explain things to anyone who would listen, of which there was very few indeed.
I've no experience with insolvency practitioners charges but I would assume they are like everyone else offering a service in a competitive market, that you pays your money and takes your choice of which one you want and at what charges you agree with them. People don't always buy the cheapest cornflakes or bog roll on offer so why does Maguire think everyone should pick the cheapest insolvency company?
Also I've quoted potential clients high for my services for jobs I don't particularly want to take on, so maybe Begbies knowing they had to do a great deal of work in an extremely short timeframe when the plug was pulled by Wigan's owners, did something similar and if so who could blame them for that?
The fact they seemed to have made a bit of a pigs ear about it since is somewhat incidental to the initial agreed price between the two sides.
As for Wigan apart from the supporters group I find it hard to believe they will find any potential new owners now who would have any long term plans for the club and are firmly in Bassini type territory.
Thank goodness we have FV although even they must now be feeling the financial chill and still have the outstanding creditors from the sale to settle.
637 Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Jan 20 2021, 21:38
Ten Bobsworth
Frank Worthington
Maguire was just one of many, Sluffy, but the misinformation started long before him, before Anderson and before the lynch mob mentality took over completely. And I'm afraid it hasn't gone away at all but is presently lying dormant awaiting the next eruption.Sluffy wrote:
I suspect very few people not in the know about what was going on had much interest and if I recall correctly wasn't Maguire one of the loudest voices and biggest influencers, as to the hatred of Anderson when the accounts showed the payment to him and strongly implied that he had pocketed the money to enrich himself!
Fair play to your knowledge and professionalism to be able to see deeper into it than anyone else (certainly anyone I've seen on social media) and explain things to anyone who would listen, of which there was very few indeed.
I've no experience with insolvency practitioners charges but I would assume they are like everyone else offering a service in a competitive market, that you pays your money and takes your choice of which one you want and at what charges you agree with them. People don't always buy the cheapest cornflakes or bog roll on offer so why does Maguire think everyone should pick the cheapest insolvency company?
Also I've quoted potential clients high for my services for jobs I don't particularly want to take on, so maybe Begbies knowing they had to do a great deal of work in an extremely short timeframe when the plug was pulled by Wigan's owners, did something similar and if so who could blame them for that?
The fact they seemed to have made a bit of a pigs ear about it since is somewhat incidental to the initial agreed price between the two sides.
As for Wigan apart from the supporters group I find it hard to believe they will find any potential new owners now who would have any long term plans for the club and are firmly in Bassini type territory.
Thank goodness we have FV although even they must now be feeling the financial chill and still have the outstanding creditors from the sale to settle.
How did it come to that? I think that's interesting but the Nutters prefer to talk about mind numbing trivialities. I have noticed that there is a common thread but each to their own, I suppose.
638 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 00:45
Sluffy
Admin
For anyone interested the Administrators report is now available at Companies House -
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00270043/filing-history
I've skimmed through it but haven't bothered looking into it in any detail as such, although one thing did stick out to me as being odd (or maybe I've not gone into it deeply enough?) and that was the statement that the Administrators had still NOT verified all the unsecured creditors claims???
See Section 9, Assets that remain to be realised and work that remains to be done. (Page 24 of 39).
The Administrators seem to have be suggesting away from this report that any purchaser pays £3m for the club and remaining assets to cover the unsecured creditors at 25p in the £, OR just £1.5m for the club and remaining assets and NOT cover the unsecured creditors and thus incur a further 15 points penalty.
So on one hand they are saying unsecured creditors total £1.5m at 25p in the £ and in the report say the haven't actually verified any unsecured creditors claims yet?
I guess they probably have a fair idea of the amount but on the face of it they are quoting a sale price that may be well above or well below the actual amount required to settle all the verified unsecured creditors claims.
They have had over six months to do so and it is a job that will need to be done, so why hasn't it been done and why are they quoting a sale amount that includes the settlement of all unsecured creditors when they don't seem to actually know the precise amount themselves?
Anyway, the Administrators are giving a weekly update tomorrow (Friday) so let's wait to see what they say.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00270043/filing-history
I've skimmed through it but haven't bothered looking into it in any detail as such, although one thing did stick out to me as being odd (or maybe I've not gone into it deeply enough?) and that was the statement that the Administrators had still NOT verified all the unsecured creditors claims???
See Section 9, Assets that remain to be realised and work that remains to be done. (Page 24 of 39).
The Administrators seem to have be suggesting away from this report that any purchaser pays £3m for the club and remaining assets to cover the unsecured creditors at 25p in the £, OR just £1.5m for the club and remaining assets and NOT cover the unsecured creditors and thus incur a further 15 points penalty.
So on one hand they are saying unsecured creditors total £1.5m at 25p in the £ and in the report say the haven't actually verified any unsecured creditors claims yet?
I guess they probably have a fair idea of the amount but on the face of it they are quoting a sale price that may be well above or well below the actual amount required to settle all the verified unsecured creditors claims.
They have had over six months to do so and it is a job that will need to be done, so why hasn't it been done and why are they quoting a sale amount that includes the settlement of all unsecured creditors when they don't seem to actually know the precise amount themselves?
Anyway, the Administrators are giving a weekly update tomorrow (Friday) so let's wait to see what they say.
639 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 08:48
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Well you can always post elsewhere if you find us so boring. Your Vince thread is possibly the most pointless and boring thread i've ever had the misfortune to read though.
How did it come to that? I think that's interesting but the Nutters prefer to talk about mind numbing trivialities. I have noticed that there is a common thread but each to their own, I suppose.
640 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 08:53
Ten Bobsworth
Frank Worthington
Half-witted pea-brains whose bell seldom ringsNorpig wrote:
Well you can always post elsewhere if you find us so boring. Your Vince thread is possibly the most pointless and boring thread i've ever had the misfortune to read though.
These are a few of my favourite things
642 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 09:01
Sluffy
Admin
Oi, you lot!
Any bickering then stick to your own threads!
Bob you've got the Vince one, Norpig you've got the New Year, new you, Bonce you have your own long standing one and leave my poor 'Wigan' thread alone!
Go on, back to your own threads, the lot of you!
Any bickering then stick to your own threads!
Bob you've got the Vince one, Norpig you've got the New Year, new you, Bonce you have your own long standing one and leave my poor 'Wigan' thread alone!
Go on, back to your own threads, the lot of you!
643 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 09:06
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Aw gee whizz Pa.Sluffy wrote:Oi, you lot!
Any bickering then stick to your own threads!
Bob you've got the Vince one, Norpig you've got the New Year, new you, Bonce you have your own long standing one and leave my poor 'Wigan' thread alone!
Go on, back to your own threads, the lot of you!
644 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 17:09
Sluffy
Admin
Anyway the Admin has published their update and although it says a lot, it doesn't actually say much at all!
Bottom line is that the 'favourite' Frampton has fallen at the proof of funds and is added to the growing list of those now out of the race and that yet another week has gone by without anybody being serious enough to put their money down and buy the club.
Full report here -
https://wiganathletic.com/news/2021/january/Statement-from-the-Joint-Administrators-22-01-21-/
645 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 18:50
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy, not being up on these matters, how long can this reasonably go on?
646 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 22:29
Sluffy
Admin
boltonbonce wrote:Sluffy, not being up on these matters, how long can this reasonably go on?
The quick answer is to say 'when the money runs out' but the more difficult understanding is when that will be, let me try and explain if I can.
Although Wigan are having to play the kids, apparently some of them are quite good and the Administrator in his update today states that they already have bids for three players but they have so far rejected them.
Even if the bids were accepted, the power still lies with the player whether he wants to move club or not, or even if he did, the personal terms are good enough to go.
Another issue I don't know about is what if anything the EFL are loaning clubs who are finding it hard with Covid and no crowds. Maybe the EFL are helping Wigan by those means, although I didn't notice anything in the scan of the accounts I did the other day?
Another rabbit that could be pulled out the hat perhaps is the Supporters Clubs £850k crowdfunding they have, which is pledged to 'save' the club. Maybe they might feel they should use some or all of it to ensure the club finishes the season, or indeed use it to 'buy' the club itself (which don't forget is on sale for just £1). There is of course the little matter of the stadium but maybe the council or the rugby will buy that and allow the club to play there as a tenant?
So as you can see things are not as clear cut as you first might think.
I tend to believe they will survive to see out the season by some means or other but if they end up in the hands of the Supporters Club then they could only be allowed to stay in the league if they can show proof of funding which is being stated as £4m being required to keep it going until June 2022. Maybe the future for them is they survive this season but end up in non league (rather than Division 4 like we are) next season.
Nothing really is clear cut at all. The Administrators have already set numerous deadlines where by if a deal isn't struck by a certain date then the club will have to fold - yet months later the circus of Administration still goes on unabated.
I really can't believe decent owners have waited all these months to suddenly step in now to save them, I reckon we are now down to the mentalists or vultures and the EFL have ensured by how the dealt with the dodgy Spanish that they aren't going to allow that to happen this time - so the only good guys I can see is the Supporters Club but they don't have the required £4m to fund the club in the EFL but would if they played at a lower level (like Bury's Phoenix club has had to do).
That's the best guess I have but don't bet your mortgage on it as normal companies practices and rules seem to go completely out the window when applied to how and why people buy clubs and run them how they do!
647 Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Jan 22 2021, 22:41
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Thanks. A sad state of affairs.
648 Re: Wigan in Administration Sat Jan 23 2021, 12:36
Sluffy
Admin
If Nixon is to be believed, the new favourites to buy the club are those headed up by the banned company director (who is just the 'fixer' rather than the buyer though).
Does make you wonder though who you might be possibly be getting in bed with if they choose a disbarred person to head up their bid though!
Should be fun to watch the next stage of this saga I would think!
Does make you wonder though who you might be possibly be getting in bed with if they choose a disbarred person to head up their bid though!
Should be fun to watch the next stage of this saga I would think!
Wigan bid. The foreign group who showed funds at start of last week are now being checked by the EFL. They have a British team in place to run club if given green light. No names but those who know them seem quite cheerful. Would have to describe these as leading the race.
— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) January 23, 2021
649 Re: Wigan in Administration Sat Jan 23 2021, 13:41
Sluffy
Admin
Might as well put this here -
Breaking: Forgotten Nottingham Forest attacker joins Wigan Athletic in January move.
It has been three years since Zach Clough last played for the Reds having signed from Bolton Wanderers in 2017
Attacker Zach Clough has left Nottingham Forest and joined Wigan Athletic on a short-term deal until the end of the season.
It is three years since the 25-year-old last played for the Reds, when he came off the bench in an FA Cup defeat at Hull City back in January 2018.
He has not been part of the first-team set-up at the City Ground for some time, and, with his contract coming to an end in the summer, now leaves to link up with the Latics.
He has had loan spells with the Trotters and at Rochdale in the last few years, with his last competitive game coming for the latter, in April 2019.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/nottingham-forest-breaking-wigan-athletic-4915517
Breaking: Forgotten Nottingham Forest attacker joins Wigan Athletic in January move.
It has been three years since Zach Clough last played for the Reds having signed from Bolton Wanderers in 2017
Attacker Zach Clough has left Nottingham Forest and joined Wigan Athletic on a short-term deal until the end of the season.
It is three years since the 25-year-old last played for the Reds, when he came off the bench in an FA Cup defeat at Hull City back in January 2018.
He has not been part of the first-team set-up at the City Ground for some time, and, with his contract coming to an end in the summer, now leaves to link up with the Latics.
He has had loan spells with the Trotters and at Rochdale in the last few years, with his last competitive game coming for the latter, in April 2019.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/nottingham-forest-breaking-wigan-athletic-4915517
650 Re: Wigan in Administration Sat Jan 23 2021, 13:44
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
I hope he gets his career back on track, not sure he ever wanted to leave us for Forest but i heard he was on 20K a week there so can't blame him really.
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