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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Free speech

Free speech

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Sluffy
Norpig
wanderlust
gloswhite
okocha
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1Free speech Empty Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 09:55

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Norpig's post about the people that trolled Captain Tom added to thousands of prior examples of unwarranted nastiness via social media. What is wrong with people?! I see Trump is back to his old ways, for example, and remains a threat in his power to influence huge numbers of people with his ugly rhetoric.
 Mankind is seriously split between the kindly and the hurtful. We even see examples on here.

There was some interesting comment yesterday about free speech, following a quote about universities remaining places where ALL views should be aired for public consumption without censorship.

"The censorship of anyone with different views should be unacceptable in any university. A major benefit of a university education is exposure to ideas that may be different from your own. Without such diversity of experiences graduates are less able to contribute to society once in the workplace. There is a real risk that future graduates will be unemployable."

And the response:-
[size=16][size=16]" but it won't be long before the far-right bots descend to attack anything they vaguely see as being left-wing.

My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society."

Your views??
[/size][/size]

2Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 10:28

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society."


Two points, the first is that by stopping people saying such things you are imposing your own version of censorship.
Secondly, If people do espouse such things, surly they need to be included in debate, to show them how, where, or when they are going against society's rules, morals, and standards.

3Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 12:34

Guest


Guest

Agree with Glos that you educate by debating the questionable views not suppressing them.

This is a cynical move from the government though, they know the so called ‘war on woke’ plays well with their base, and they want to be seen as the party defending British history - as if it’s under any threat.

They only care about the freedom to speak when it’s a view in line with their own, they’ve no issue with silencing those they disagree with.

4Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 12:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Neil Lennon was on the news making some very good points about abuse of footballers e.g. This
Thing is I don’t mind folk making a point but to do it anonymously and without taking responsibility for their comments is wrong and an interesting point of law as if they were to do it publicly they’d be arrested for libel, slander or incitement.

Lennon wants them named, shamed and subject to the law.

5Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 13:31

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Everyone should have the right to say what they want but where do you draw the line when people have offensive opinions such as holocaust deniers? Its a fine line letting people spout off about their crackpot ideas as shutting these people down can only cause them to gain more supporters.

I'm thinking about the likes of David Icke, he's been banned from practically all social media platforms but still has a massive amount of people who hang on his every word. Banning him hasn't really helped has it?

6Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:00

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Norpig wrote:Everyone should have the right to say what they want ...

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

Free speach can only be free if it comes with a responsibility and respect of others views - you only have to see that in action on here.

People can't do that though - you have everything from people being uneducated spouting/repeating factually incorrect bollocks, to people who say things to be inflamantory, abusive and to be deliberately arguementative.  You have people who rather lie and deceive than admit they were wrong and others who post as fake accounts (are fake accounts allowed free speach too?) to give them many voices - and not all saying the same things!

That's why 'free' speach isn't free at all, you can only say what you want within the law - that's why sites like ours and even global ones like Twitter and Facebook have to have 'modderators' to deal with deliberate 'abuse' of free speach and even to 'stop' people speaking at all.

Is that censorship or simply removing fake news and/or unwarranted abuse.

Depends where you stand I supose.

I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do.

George Bernard Shaw once wrote 'Youth is wasted on the young', and similarly I sometimes wonder if free speach is wasted on the many - maybe you should not be allowed to open your mouth and speak to the world until you become directly responsible for what you say and the events that flow from it.

Just a thought.

7Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:00

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

What about Aussie rugby player, Israel Folau?

8Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:05

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Interesting, slightly tangental, article from Marina Hyde.....spot on, as always, about the press

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/16/harry-meghan-media-critics-worse



Last edited by okocha on Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:18; edited 2 times in total

9Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:11

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:What about Aussie rugby player, Israel Folau?
He has the right to espouse his ridiculous views but because it’s known who he he is he was challenged about them. Rugby Australia had the right to terminate his contract. Accountability.
Compare that to an anonymous character hiding behind social media’s confidentiality protocols. I’m with Lennon inasmuch that anyone breaking the offline laws should be exposed to face justice.

10Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:14

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy writes:- "I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do"


I thought we'd agreed not to bring up this subject any more, but, as you have, I'll just politely say that the reason for the grief is that you are not always correct, even though you mistakenly insist you are.


Enough now........I will not introduce this subject again. I've even excused you from any blame for being misled by a fellow founder member. Peace now.

11Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:16

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

He gets away with murder on here and you know it. I don't like what he says as generally its either completely boring or its just plain old unintelligible but if you're happy having him around that's up to you.

12Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:19

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Sluffy wrote:

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

Free speach can only be free if it comes with a responsibility and respect of others views - you only have to see that in action on here.

People can't do that though - you have everything from people being uneducated spouting/repeating factually incorrect bollocks, to people who say things to be inflamantory, abusive and to be deliberately arguementative.  You have people who rather lie and deceive than admit they were wrong and others who post as fake accounts (are fake accounts allowed free speach too?) to give them many voices - and not all saying the same things!

That's why 'free' speach isn't free at all, you can only say what you want within the law - that's why sites like ours and even global ones like Twitter and Facebook have to have 'modderators' to deal with deliberate 'abuse' of free speach and even to 'stop' people speaking at all.

Is that censorship or simply removing fake news and/or unwarranted abuse.

Depends where you stand I supose.

I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do.

George Bernard Shaw once wrote 'Youth is wasted on the young', and similarly I sometimes wonder if free speach is wasted on the many - maybe you should not be allowed to open your mouth and speak to the world until you beco me directly responsible for what you say and the events that flow from it.

Just a thought.

You get "grief" when you repeatedly accuse genuine posters of being fake accounts despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up your accusations.

13Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:26

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

okocha wrote:Sluffy writes:- "I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do"


I thought we'd agreed not to bring up this subject any more, but, as you have, I'll just politely say that the reason for the grief is that you are not always correct, even though you mistakenly insist you are.


Enough now........I will not introduce this subject again. I've even excused you from any blame for being misled by a fellow founder member. Peace now.

Jog on.

I've stated a fact.

There have been plenty of other fake accounts on here - I never specified which ones I was talking about - but if the cap fits...

Fake accounts are inextricably linked to the history of this site just as Anderson is inextricably linked to the history of BWFC, so you can't ignore they have happened.

It can't be ignored or denied so stop being so 'precious' about what is a fact every time its mentioned.

14Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:27

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

xmiles wrote:You get "grief" when you repeatedly accuse genuine posters of being fake accounts despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up your accusations.

Oh look who turned up just five minutes later - fancy that!

See my reply above!

15Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:28

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

16Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:48

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Norpig wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

He gets away with murder on here and you know it. I don't like what he says as generally its either completely boring or its just plain old unintelligible but if you're happy having him around that's up to you.

We have never banned anybody simply because we don't like them or what they say.

If you were in my shoes would you ban him?

If so on what basis - that you simply don't like what he posts, that he's boring, that he doesn't seem to rate you and/or others, he doesn't fit in with everybody else?

You can't on one hand say you believe in free speach in one breath then call for someone to be banned in the next, when all they've done is expressed their free speach too.

Why do you think I put up with all the shit that comes my way on here, because I like it?

I put up with it because I'd be a hypocrite if I simply banned everyone who disagreed with me/didn't like me/ wanted to troll me.

Fortunately what people think of me on the internet doesn't bother me and allows me to keep to my principles about having an open, honest and as fair to all site I can within reason.

I'm not here to be 'popular' or seek 'validation' from others, I do it because I more or less 'fell into the job' as I explained on the other thread yesterday, and whilst I'm here I'll do it as fairly as I can to all.

And that includes how I treat Bob, and that is no differently to anyone else, even if you don't see it that way.

17Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:02

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

Has nobody even spotted sluffys "I've never had a fake account" fake account yet? It's really obvious when you look at it.......

18Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:03

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

Sluffy wrote:

We have never banned anybody simply because we don't like them or what they say.

If you were in my shoes would you ban him?

If so on what basis - that you simply don't like what he posts, that he's boring, that he doesn't seem to rate you and/or others, he doesn't fit in with everybody else?

You can't on one hand say you believe in free speach in one breath then call for someone to be banned in the next, when all they've done is expressed their free speach too.

Why do you think I put up with all the shit that comes my way on here, because I like it?

I put up with it because I'd be a hypocrite if I simply banned everyone who disagreed with me/didn't like me/ wanted to troll me.

Fortunately what people think of me on the internet doesn't bother me and allows me to keep to my principles about having an open, honest and as fair to all site I can within reason.

I'm not here to be 'popular' or seek 'validation' from others, I do it because I more or less 'fell into the job' as I explained on the other thread yesterday, and whilst I'm here I'll do it as fairly as I can to all.

And that includes how I treat Bob, and that is no differently to anyone else, even if you don't see it that way.

You asked me to stop trolling him

I did

Yet he still makes his snide little quips every chance he gets and you say nothing.......suppose its like talking to yourself?

19Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

y2johnny wrote:Has nobody even spotted sluffys "I've never had a fake account" fake account yet?  It's really obvious when you look at it.......

Go on then, tell me who you think I am.

You'll be wrong though because I don't have one, no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

20Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:11

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

I have proof though. Irrefutable proof.

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