Bolton Wanderers Football Club Fan Forum for all BWFC Supporters.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Free speech

Free speech

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

1Free speech Empty Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 09:55

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Norpig's post about the people that trolled Captain Tom added to thousands of prior examples of unwarranted nastiness via social media. What is wrong with people?! I see Trump is back to his old ways, for example, and remains a threat in his power to influence huge numbers of people with his ugly rhetoric.
 Mankind is seriously split between the kindly and the hurtful. We even see examples on here.

There was some interesting comment yesterday about free speech, following a quote about universities remaining places where ALL views should be aired for public consumption without censorship.

"The censorship of anyone with different views should be unacceptable in any university. A major benefit of a university education is exposure to ideas that may be different from your own. Without such diversity of experiences graduates are less able to contribute to society once in the workplace. There is a real risk that future graduates will be unemployable."

And the response:-
[size=16][size=16]" but it won't be long before the far-right bots descend to attack anything they vaguely see as being left-wing.

My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society."

Your views??
[/size][/size]

2Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 10:28

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society."


Two points, the first is that by stopping people saying such things you are imposing your own version of censorship.
Secondly, If people do espouse such things, surly they need to be included in debate, to show them how, where, or when they are going against society's rules, morals, and standards.

3Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 12:34

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Agree with Glos that you educate by debating the questionable views not suppressing them.

This is a cynical move from the government though, they know the so called ‘war on woke’ plays well with their base, and they want to be seen as the party defending British history - as if it’s under any threat.

They only care about the freedom to speak when it’s a view in line with their own, they’ve no issue with silencing those they disagree with.

4Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 12:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Neil Lennon was on the news making some very good points about abuse of footballers e.g. This
Thing is I don’t mind folk making a point but to do it anonymously and without taking responsibility for their comments is wrong and an interesting point of law as if they were to do it publicly they’d be arrested for libel, slander or incitement.

Lennon wants them named, shamed and subject to the law.

5Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 13:31

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Everyone should have the right to say what they want but where do you draw the line when people have offensive opinions such as holocaust deniers? Its a fine line letting people spout off about their crackpot ideas as shutting these people down can only cause them to gain more supporters.

I'm thinking about the likes of David Icke, he's been banned from practically all social media platforms but still has a massive amount of people who hang on his every word. Banning him hasn't really helped has it?

6Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:00

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:Everyone should have the right to say what they want ...

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

Free speach can only be free if it comes with a responsibility and respect of others views - you only have to see that in action on here.

People can't do that though - you have everything from people being uneducated spouting/repeating factually incorrect bollocks, to people who say things to be inflamantory, abusive and to be deliberately arguementative.  You have people who rather lie and deceive than admit they were wrong and others who post as fake accounts (are fake accounts allowed free speach too?) to give them many voices - and not all saying the same things!

That's why 'free' speach isn't free at all, you can only say what you want within the law - that's why sites like ours and even global ones like Twitter and Facebook have to have 'modderators' to deal with deliberate 'abuse' of free speach and even to 'stop' people speaking at all.

Is that censorship or simply removing fake news and/or unwarranted abuse.

Depends where you stand I supose.

I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do.

George Bernard Shaw once wrote 'Youth is wasted on the young', and similarly I sometimes wonder if free speach is wasted on the many - maybe you should not be allowed to open your mouth and speak to the world until you become directly responsible for what you say and the events that flow from it.

Just a thought.

7Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:00

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
What about Aussie rugby player, Israel Folau?

8Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:05

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Interesting, slightly tangental, article from Marina Hyde.....spot on, as always, about the press

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/16/harry-meghan-media-critics-worse



Last edited by okocha on Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:18; edited 2 times in total

9Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:11

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:What about Aussie rugby player, Israel Folau?
He has the right to espouse his ridiculous views but because it’s known who he he is he was challenged about them. Rugby Australia had the right to terminate his contract. Accountability.
Compare that to an anonymous character hiding behind social media’s confidentiality protocols. I’m with Lennon inasmuch that anyone breaking the offline laws should be exposed to face justice.

10Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:14

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Sluffy writes:- "I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do"


I thought we'd agreed not to bring up this subject any more, but, as you have, I'll just politely say that the reason for the grief is that you are not always correct, even though you mistakenly insist you are.


Enough now........I will not introduce this subject again. I've even excused you from any blame for being misled by a fellow founder member. Peace now.

11Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:16

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

He gets away with murder on here and you know it. I don't like what he says as generally its either completely boring or its just plain old unintelligible but if you're happy having him around that's up to you.

12Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:19

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Sluffy wrote:

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

Free speach can only be free if it comes with a responsibility and respect of others views - you only have to see that in action on here.

People can't do that though - you have everything from people being uneducated spouting/repeating factually incorrect bollocks, to people who say things to be inflamantory, abusive and to be deliberately arguementative.  You have people who rather lie and deceive than admit they were wrong and others who post as fake accounts (are fake accounts allowed free speach too?) to give them many voices - and not all saying the same things!

That's why 'free' speach isn't free at all, you can only say what you want within the law - that's why sites like ours and even global ones like Twitter and Facebook have to have 'modderators' to deal with deliberate 'abuse' of free speach and even to 'stop' people speaking at all.

Is that censorship or simply removing fake news and/or unwarranted abuse.

Depends where you stand I supose.

I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do.

George Bernard Shaw once wrote 'Youth is wasted on the young', and similarly I sometimes wonder if free speach is wasted on the many - maybe you should not be allowed to open your mouth and speak to the world until you beco me directly responsible for what you say and the events that flow from it.

Just a thought.

You get "grief" when you repeatedly accuse genuine posters of being fake accounts despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up your accusations.

13Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:26

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@okocha wrote:Sluffy writes:- "I've tried my best over the years for this site to be open and tolerent of everyone (including known fake accounts) look at all the grief I've taken for it though - and still do"


I thought we'd agreed not to bring up this subject any more, but, as you have, I'll just politely say that the reason for the grief is that you are not always correct, even though you mistakenly insist you are.


Enough now........I will not introduce this subject again. I've even excused you from any blame for being misled by a fellow founder member. Peace now.

Jog on.

I've stated a fact.

There have been plenty of other fake accounts on here - I never specified which ones I was talking about - but if the cap fits...

Fake accounts are inextricably linked to the history of this site just as Anderson is inextricably linked to the history of BWFC, so you can't ignore they have happened.

It can't be ignored or denied so stop being so 'precious' about what is a fact every time its mentioned.

14Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:27

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@xmiles wrote:You get "grief" when you repeatedly accuse genuine posters of being fake accounts despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up your accusations.

Oh look who turned up just five minutes later - fancy that!

See my reply above!

15Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:28

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

16Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 14:48

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

You don't seem to like it when Bob says what he wants...

He gets away with murder on here and you know it. I don't like what he says as generally its either completely boring or its just plain old unintelligible but if you're happy having him around that's up to you.

We have never banned anybody simply because we don't like them or what they say.

If you were in my shoes would you ban him?

If so on what basis - that you simply don't like what he posts, that he's boring, that he doesn't seem to rate you and/or others, he doesn't fit in with everybody else?

You can't on one hand say you believe in free speach in one breath then call for someone to be banned in the next, when all they've done is expressed their free speach too.

Why do you think I put up with all the shit that comes my way on here, because I like it?

I put up with it because I'd be a hypocrite if I simply banned everyone who disagreed with me/didn't like me/ wanted to troll me.

Fortunately what people think of me on the internet doesn't bother me and allows me to keep to my principles about having an open, honest and as fair to all site I can within reason.

I'm not here to be 'popular' or seek 'validation' from others, I do it because I more or less 'fell into the job' as I explained on the other thread yesterday, and whilst I'm here I'll do it as fairly as I can to all.

And that includes how I treat Bob, and that is no differently to anyone else, even if you don't see it that way.

17Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:02

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Has nobody even spotted sluffys "I've never had a fake account" fake account yet? It's really obvious when you look at it.......

18Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:03

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Sluffy wrote:

We have never banned anybody simply because we don't like them or what they say.

If you were in my shoes would you ban him?

If so on what basis - that you simply don't like what he posts, that he's boring, that he doesn't seem to rate you and/or others, he doesn't fit in with everybody else?

You can't on one hand say you believe in free speach in one breath then call for someone to be banned in the next, when all they've done is expressed their free speach too.

Why do you think I put up with all the shit that comes my way on here, because I like it?

I put up with it because I'd be a hypocrite if I simply banned everyone who disagreed with me/didn't like me/ wanted to troll me.

Fortunately what people think of me on the internet doesn't bother me and allows me to keep to my principles about having an open, honest and as fair to all site I can within reason.

I'm not here to be 'popular' or seek 'validation' from others, I do it because I more or less 'fell into the job' as I explained on the other thread yesterday, and whilst I'm here I'll do it as fairly as I can to all.

And that includes how I treat Bob, and that is no differently to anyone else, even if you don't see it that way.

You asked me to stop trolling him

I did

Yet he still makes his snide little quips every chance he gets and you say nothing.......suppose its like talking to yourself?

19Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@y2johnny wrote:Has nobody even spotted sluffys "I've never had a fake account" fake account yet?  It's really obvious when you look at it.......

Go on then, tell me who you think I am.

You'll be wrong though because I don't have one, no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

20Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:11

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I have proof though. Irrefutable proof.

21Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:17

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
It's just your word against mine though really. As it's only the Internet. But I KNOW that either this other account or the sluffy account is fake.  Yo be honest it's quite hard to tell because they both seem quite far fetched

22Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:21

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@y2johnny wrote:You asked me to stop trolling him

I did

Yet he still makes his snide little quips every chance he gets and you say nothing.......suppose its like talking to yourself?

Thank you for stopping the trolling.

Snide quips are made daily on here - just look at what Wanderlust does to me every post he can.

You've just done one yourself in the post above - you clearly believe that I post as Bob.

We have few rules on here but deliberate trolling is bannable whilst snidy remarks are not, and that's why I asked you to kindly pack that in.



Keep up the good work at the hospital - stay safe.

23Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:25

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bobs constant quips and snide remarks surely do lass as trolling as it is constant and done at every opportunity!!!

And no not Bob. I don't think even Peter kay could come up with bob

24Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@y2johnny wrote:Bobs constant quips and snide remarks surely do class as trolling as it is constant and done at every opportunity!!!

And no not Bob.  I don't think even Peter kay could come up with bob

Ok if I'm not Bob then who do you believe me to be?

If I class Bob's snide remarks as trolling and we ban him then I would have to class Norpig's snide remarks of Bob as trolling too and would have to ban him as well - is that really what you want?

Allowing free speech to apply equally to everyone isn't as easy as you may think.

25Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:48

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The snide comments i can deal with, it's the complete lack of respect for anyone else's opinion i can do without and the fact he thinks he is intellectually superior to the rest of us. Why come on a site when you know no one has any interest in what you say (other than you Sluffy) and just carry on posting utter rubbish?

26Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 16:10

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Norpig wrote:The snide comments i can deal with, it's the complete lack of respect for anyone else's opinion i can do without and the fact he thinks he is intellectually superior to the rest of us. Why come on a site when you know no one has any interest in what you say (other than you Sluffy) and just carry on posting utter rubbish?
I have no illusions of intellectual superiority but I do think you'd have to the intellect of the average dumbo to be on the same level as..... well, let's keep that a closely guarded secret.

27Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 16:14

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
I have no illusions of intellectual superiority but I do think you'd have to the intellect of the average dumbo to be on the same level as..... well, let's keep that a closely guarded secret.

Free speech Nobody10

28Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 16:14

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
I have no illusions of intellectual superiority but I do think you'd have to the intellect of the average dumbo to be on the same level as..... well, let's keep that a closely guarded secret.
Again, utter gibberish scratch

29Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 16:35

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig if tenbob posts his love for Dale vince in his own thread and keeps it there then I have no issue with that.

30Free speech Empty Re: Free speech Wed Feb 17 2021, 16:36

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:The snide comments i can deal with, it's the complete lack of respect for anyone else's opinion i can do without and the fact he thinks he is intellectually superior to the rest of us. Why come on a site when you know no one has any interest in what you say (other than you Sluffy) and just carry on posting utter rubbish?

People are people mate.

Why does anyone go on to social media and be abusive, racist, give fake news/information, to post as fake acconts, to tell deliberate lies, to be deceitful, to spout bullshit and all the other stuff they do?

Do you think Wanderlust shows me any respect, don't you think Wanderlust believes himself to be intellectually superior to me (and although he doesn't say it - everyone else too)?

Doesn't stop Wanderlust posting huge amounts of factually incorrect stuff but he's seen to be highly popular on here!

Sometimes/often you just have to let it go, take it all with a huge pinch of salt, as you know you can't put everyone right - people seem to believe whatever their favourite posters say as gospel and believe anybody else that says different to be wrong - no matter what.

That's simply how it is - you can't change how people act and you can't change what people choose to believe it real life let alone social media.

Johnny came on here a few months back to tell me I was a cunt, he's posted up today that I have a fake account and thus I have been telling lies.

You have the 'okocha' account in the last week or so start a thread on 'Integrity' and now this one on 'Free Speech' you think that's just pure coincidence following 'fakeaccountgate'?

I don't.

You have either to put up with or let it get to you - what other choice is there?

Does it really matter to you what Bob thinks?

I don't care what Wanderlust thinks of me, I just laugh at him (I really do too!) - he doesn't like that.

If people think you have a weak spot they will try and play on it - and if other people believe them, then they will play on it even harder.

Just treat it all as water off a ducks back because as the saying goes, 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me!'.

Sponsored content


Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum