Where are Bolton getting their money from

wanderlust wrote:Load of tosh but I will hold my hand up - like you I have no idea whatsoever how much or how little the Ordinary A shareholders have invested in the club.

Although if you are to be believed we can assume that Nick Luckock was handed a bunch of shares for free. Fortunately I've never had to take out a loan other than a mortgage when I bought my first property but if I ever did I'd be sure to give the lender shares in my business instead of a charge over the assets. Not.

And like you I have absolutely zero knowledge how the club is financing the contracts, how much they are worth or of any caveats that may or may not be contained therein.

Like you, I don't know the P&L, cashflow or current balance.

Fact is you know absolutely sweet fuck all about it but it won't stop you pontificating will it?

Well fwiw, I will take my right to reply which is as follows.

I have absolutely no idea why you think that I've somehow intimated that Luckock was given free shares in the club???

I've certain not said that or even suggested it.

Secondly have you never watched Dragons Den, as the whole basis of the show is to trade an agreed percentage of the ownership of the 'pitchers' business in return for inwards investment from the dragons.

That's what investors do, they invest.

Some investments being safer than others.

Lenders however loan money against security of the business, they eliminate their risk.

That's what Sharon, James and Luckock have done.

The biggest difference being that  if the business goes into Administration then the shares of that company are immediately worthless - in other words investors have lost their money they had as shareholders and potentially some or all of any unsecured monies they have put into the club.

However if you've loaned against the security of an asset, you will be first in the queue to get your money back!

Therefore Sharon, James and Luckock haven't 'invested' in the club, (well they have in terms of holding shares, they've simply loaned the club money which is secured against the hotel, land, stadium, etc, thus knowing that no matter what they are the first in line to get their money back if all else fails from that security.

I also don't need to know about the clubs contracts to players as it is self evident that your assertion that we couldn't afford to keep Arthur Gnahoua because we didn't have the money to pay his wages next season is obviously ridiculous considering we've since brought in at least FIVE new signings since he was released.

wanderlust wrote:
Perhaps "Bob" should be asking his friend where Morecambe are getting all their money from given that they've just signed Gnouah who we couldn't afford to keep?

Or is that just spinning it back?

Does anyone believe Arthur was on more than the combined wages of Johnson, John, Aimson, Sheehan and Dapo???

Clearly he wasn't!

I don't need to know the details of the clubs finances to know the difference between share investment and secured loans nor that one fringe player wasn't being paid more in wages than the combined wages of five new players, two or more who are certainly intended to be first team starters.

wanderlust wrote:And the answer is a broad base of investors who are effectively betting on BWFC succeeding.

At some point the business will have to wash it's face.

And as for pontificating, you are the one who spouted off about "broad base of investors" and the club being unable to fund the wages of Gnahoua, I merely pointed out how ridiculous your claims were!

It was plain enough, Sluffy, that, Lusty's comments weren't thought through but at least he commented. What interests me is what is actually going on in 'the boardroom' behind all the PR stuff.

Its apparent that, after a shaky start, real progress is being made on the football side following the recruitment of Ian Evatt. Our investment advisor's lad was on Barrow's books before going to Morecambe last season and he was able to tell me quite a bit about Ian's abilities when Ian was in the frame for the Bolton job. He also, as it happens, told me at that time that Barrow had 'a good goalkeeper'.

Lets be clear though, the Supporters Trust, mainly but not only through Terrence Rigby, sought to trash the memory and reputation of Eddie Davies whilst exonerating Dean Holdsworth of any grounds for criticism. And they went further through Simon Nightingale's 'how do we get rid of these people?'; 'these people' being Michael James, Brett Warburton, the Estate of Eddie Davies and Ken Anderson, who was on the way out in any event. And, of course, the ST had been assisted in their endeavours over a very long period of time by Marc Iles and the Bolton News.

Yet now, under Sharon's leadership and control, the Supporters Trust and the Bolton News are portrayed as the best mates of the club and included in promo videos, whilst Andy Gartside is despatched to the ST's AGM to say how the club wouldn't be where it was today without them. At the time he said it we were either 19th or 20th in the lowest tier of the EFL, so where did that comment come from? I cannot believe that Young Garty was just being polite and now he's also gone or going with little to no explanation.

How does Michael James view all this, I wonder? We never hear from him but he did attend the Memorial Service for Eddie Davies, he knows about the monumental financial sacrifices Eddie made for the club and he was a major part of keeping the club going when Eddie handed over his shares to Anderson/Holdsworth in March 2016. Michael's now a minority shareholder and the only one of the three directors with any longstanding interest in Bolton Wanderers.

Chief Financial Officer, Scott Lindsay, on his way out too according to Nixon. How does Nixon get the lowdown no-one else does?

For what it is worth Bob, Wanderlust should be classed in the same company as the morons and deluded of the ST as he clearly was maniacally vociferous and persistently vocal in his hatred for Anderson and his many time stated belief - and dare I say it, his professional opinion as a business consultant - that Anderson was acting illegally to rape and pillage the club - fwiw I no more believe Wanderlust is a business consultant than I believe that pigs can fly!

However, a bit like Iles I suppose, he was being believed by many off here, no doubt because of both his claim as being an expert in business and financial matters and because of the nearly universal opinion from social media about the hatred towards Anderson fed by the influencers (and Holdsworth supporters) namely Iles and the ST - both of which as you correctly point out having given little to no credit to Eddie Davies for his years of benevolence to the club, and both with personal grievances with Davies - namely his determination to not give away the club to ST and the BEN historical bias against Davies dating back to when he took over ownership of the club.

Wanderlust only continued to comment on the club as a business subsequent to Anderson leaving I believe, simply to continue his pretence to others that he was knowledgeable in such matters - which to the likes of those who have/had professional careers in these fields, could clearly recognise him to be a somewhat of a charlatan.

I believe Wanderlust was seeking something from social media that he was not obtaining from real life and my constant refuting of his so called 'expert' knowledge was  preventing that and thus his maniacal determination to never to be seen wrong himself and his obsession in proving me wrong instead - and thus by doing so proving him to be right all along - led to his attritional and irrational determination to do so no matter what.

The subject of how company's are financially regulated and run within the law is of little to no interest for most people - all that matters to them is what happens on the pitch.

Regrettably most people are easily led by those they read on social media - in this case the likes of Iles, the ST (and for most on Nuts) Wanderlust.

As the saying goes though, you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.

There are many that still believe the narrative of Iles, the ST and Wanderlust, no matter what.

Stupid is as stupid does perhaps?

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Chief Financial Officer, Scott Lindsay, on his way out too according to Nixon. How does Nixon get the lowdown no-one else does?

Good spot Bob!

It was only a short term deal for Lindsay … https://t.co/QkxfFzn4P6

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) June 18, 2021

Seeing that Lindsay was only announced on the 15th Feb, it does seem he was brought in for a specific task - to compile the due to be published accounts perhaps?

Still seems odd to me though - where's the successor planning and continuity?

I guess Nixon has the ear of players at the club and their agents and also players and agents the club has been contacting for possible signings.

I had to laugh though when Nixon announced that Kenyon had been at the club for months and Iles had no idea that he was even there!!!

Esteemed journalist, yeah sure he is...!!!

Groundhog day

Who believed wander to be an expert? He was just one of many posters who post their opinions, that’s what a forum is for.

BoltonTillIDie wrote:Who believed wander to be an expert? He was just one of many posters who post their opinions, that’s what a forum is for.

Wanderlust let it be known several times that he was a Business Consultant.

He let it be known he had a MBA (from a good awarding body too!)

He also let it be known he was the COO of a national NGO.

Now you can be whoever you want to be on social media, that's why I take most of what I read on it with a large pinch of salt - and fwiw, expect others to do the same for anything I say or claim too - but clearly many do believe what they read and have their favourites.

I'm always gobsmacked how easily many folks are fooled by people who they don't know, never met, and may well have hidden reasons for saying what they do.

How many off here thought (maybe even still thinks!) Anderson was some sort of a crook?

Well for the record the Administrators (who were clearly not fans of Anderson either as per their comments about him) OFFICIALLY CLEARED HIM of any illegal running of the club.

How many off here believes the Tory party is riddled with sleaze and corruption?

Well it might be but up to now absolutely NOTHING has been found that could lead to anyone facing prosecution.  Which is amazing considering all the fast amount of skulduggery that has been alleged to have carried on for well over a year now!

Wanderlust set himself up as an 'expert' and many took him at his word - they probably still do - that's up to them.

However I've known that many things he has said or claimed, to be false or fake.

I've simply repudiated these errors/mistruths to give others the true picture - up to them if they want to believe me or not but it now gives them something they could use to better inform themselves if they wanted to.

Where things went very much astray on here was Wanderlust inability/unwillingness/stubbornness/call it what you will to accept/acknowledge/correct himself/whatever and amend his future narrative accordingly.

Instead he would abuse, lie, and do whatsoever he could to avoid accepting his claims/statements/assertions were without substance, merit and often, nonfactual.

He would rather do all that then simply accept he sometimes got things wrong - like we all do.

Even for the internet that was not normal behaviour.

Some like Norpig seem to believe he was only doing it to 'wind me up', get me to 'bite' but I believe it actually runs a lot deeper than that.

I've listed and linked to SIX times I asked him to PLEASE stop doing something (ethnic slurs) that - whether you or he may think is nothing much - but which IS against the law and for which peoplee have been PROSECUTED for.

I think most people would have thought (or even said) how pathetic my request was - but most would have accepted it, even if it was begrudgingly.

Wanderlust carried on the matter over two weeks, three different threads and clearly was never going to stop, so the SEVENTH time he continued on with the issue, was simply one too many for my patience with him.

I believe I gave him ample warnings and opportunities to drop the matter and move on.

But he deliberately chose not to.

This example is just ONE instance of the many, many times I have had to deal with him - and nearly all of them because I challenged his fake or incorrect statements and allegations.

Fine if he or anyone has an opinion, yes that is what forums are about - but when someone shows your opinion to be factually wrong, or reminds you of something you may not have known or have forgotten, then don't people usually take that onboard and reevaluate their views?

Isn't that what forums are about too???

Wanderlust for reasons known only too himself was unwilling/incapable/whatever of accepting he was ever wrong about anything.

I mean we are on the internet, nobody even cares other than himself that he isn't 100% correct on everything he says.

I don't know what he was looking for on the internet but it was clearly something that was missing from his real life - otherwise why behave like he did???

There's plenty of other forums where he can be correct as much as he wants, I hope he finds whatever it is he's looking for.

Sluffy wrote:

Good spot Bob!

It was only a short term deal for Lindsay … https://t.co/QkxfFzn4P6

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) June 18, 2021

Seeing that Lindsay was only announced on the 15th Feb, it does seem he was brought in for a specific task - to compile the due to be published accounts perhaps?

Still seems odd to me though - where's the successor planning and continuity?

I guess Nixon has the ear of players at the club and their agents and also players and agents the club has been contacting for possible signings.

I had to laugh though when Nixon announced that Kenyon had been at the club for months and Iles had no idea that he was even there!!!

Esteemed journalist, yeah sure he is...!!!

I noticed this on another Wanderers forum (not WW) that I visit occasionally. What I also noticed was that one or two of the posters had been doing some homework on the club accounts and were beginning to get some sensible perspective on the financial history. Something of a rarity!

I don't think Lindsay was brought in to do the published accounts. Cowgills will have done that. I suspect his appointment just hasn't worked out to be the right choice. I had my doubts in the first instance.

I also had reservations about the COO appointment. You need someone with the right experience to do that job and I doubt young Garty had it. Paul Aldridge had it and stuck at it to the bitter end without payment. 

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2016/june/paul-aldridge-joins-bolton-wanderers/

I strongly suspect KA would have made it up to him though, probably out of the £237K he held out for.

Does anyone else think that 4% is nowhere near enough interest when:

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Does anyone else think that 4% is nowhere near enough interest when:

1. The business you are lending it to can't afford it unless you fund it yourself

2. You can't get your hands on the capital when you need it

3. Previous lenders have had to write off £millions

Its sad that Lusty's not around to explain it all but our investment advisor wouldn't be our investment advisor for very long if that was the best he could come up with.

I'm impressed that you have an investment advisor, Bob.

My own advisor, Ladbrokes customer services, (when the fun stops, stop), is far from impressive. Maybe a change is needed.

I'm hearing good things about Bet365.

boltonbonce wrote:
I'm impressed that you have an investment advisor, Bob.

My own advisor, Ladbrokes customer services, (when the fun stops, stop), is far from impressive. Maybe a change is needed.

I'm hearing good things about Bet365.

Don't go to Bet365! I had an account for years with them but switched to SkyBet. I'd placed an accumulator but then couldn't access the bet due to issues at their end. Eventually it came up and i wanted to cash out but it wouldn't let me.

I complained to them and asked for the cash out amount (it was only about £9) but they refused so i haven't used them since.

boltonbonce wrote:
I'm impressed that you have an investment advisor, Bob.

My own advisor, Ladbrokes customer services, (when the fun stops, stop), is far from impressive. Maybe a change is needed.

I'm hearing good things about Bet365.

I'm a cautious investor, Boncey, with a distinct aversion to gambling but I did buy some Burnden Leisure shares many moons ago. They were no more than my ticket to the AGM really but I never attended until Ken Anderson called one in 2018. That was interesting.

Football finance is a bit like footie itself. There are divers and cheaters, there's feigning injury, fancy footwork and playing for time. At the moment BWFC seem to be keeping the ball near the corner flag until the final whistle blows at the end of the month (or a bit longer with added time).

Norpig wrote:
Don't go to Bet365! I had an account for years with them but switched to SkyBet. I'd placed an accumulator but then couldn't access the bet due to issues at their end. Eventually it came up and i wanted to cash out but it wouldn't let me.

I complained to them and asked for the cash out amount (it was only about £9) but they refused so i haven't used them since.

That's not good. I'll give them a miss.

Still no accounts from Forest Green Rovers either. What's the betting on who will be the slowest of last season's League 2 clubs to file, I wonder?

FGR has just issued another £30,000 worth of shares. That's not very much is it, but FGR's paid up share  capital is five times more than FV's (even if FV's share capital were fully paid).

Meanwhile over in Blackpool, Owen Oyston is still trying to raise the £31 million the judge ordered him to pay Valeri Belokon for 20% of Blackpool F. C.

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/people/ex-pool-owner-owen-oyston-loses-another-court-battle-3226926

You do wonder how some people sleep at night.

Cajunboy wrote:You do wonder how some people sleep at night.

Best stick to the Beeno if  it makes your head hurt

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Best stick to the Beeno if  it makes your head hurt

Good stuff in the Beano this week. The dads form a dad club, and Calamity James has a whale of a time.
I won't spoil it for you, but there are also good storylines for The Numbskulls, and Roger the Dodger, who is forced to make his own cheese sandwich, with dad away at dad club.
Dad club doesn't go well.