Migrant crisis in the Channel

WS63: you totally misunderstand. 

The whole point is that today's youngsters will become tomorrow's far more enlightened generation who will have already grappled with the iniquities of the world that their elders have created. They will be in a better position to have a beneficial effect, due to their early engagement and experience.

Teaching nowadays requires youngsters to think and debate rather than simply absorb the views of their elders. Climate change is a good example of energetic, concerned youth being able to voice their views to replace the tired, out-of date and misguided misconceptions of older folk.

okocha wrote:WS63: you totally misunderstand. 

The whole point is that today's youngsters will become tomorrow's far more enlightened generation who will have already grappled with the iniquities of the world that their elders have created. They will be in a better position to have a beneficial effect, due to their early engagement and experience.

Teaching nowadays requires youngsters to think and debate rather than simply absorb the views of their elders. Climate change is a good example of energetic, concerned youth being able to voice their views to replace the tired, out-of date and misguided misconceptions of older 

Oko, if you genuinely believe what you’ve just typed then I despair for you. No point me adding any more because we’re obviously so far apart it would only descend from here.

What about my question to you though WS63?

Whitesince63 wrote:

Oko, if you genuinely believe what you’ve just typed then I despair for you. No point me adding any more because we’re obviously so far apart it would only descend from here.

Virtue signallers, holier-than-thou types and bullshitters have much in common, WS63. Many of them (one might even say most) do actually believe in their own bullshit.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Virture signallers, holier-than-thou types and bullshitters have much in common, WS63. Many of them (one might even say most) do actually believe in their own bullshit.

Don't be so hard on yourself, Bob. Get some banana porridge down you. I had mine at 5am and I'm ready to rumble.

If our lazy arse newsagent would open earlier than 8am I'd be in a better mood. £3.50 for a Grauniad. That's 75p more than the Beano, and with less laughs. Outrageous.

boltonbonce wrote:
Don't be so hard on yourself, Bob. Get some banana porridge down you. I had mine at 5am and I'm ready to rumble.

If our lazy arse newsagent would open earlier than 8am I'd be in a better mood. £3.50 for a Grauniad. That's 75p more than the Beano, and with less laughs. Outrageous.

They pay you £3.50 to read the Grauniad, Boncey? Isn't that illegal? It must be less than the national minimum wage rate.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
They pay you £3.50 to read the Grauniad, Boncey? Isn't that illegal? It must be less than the national minimum wage rate.

This is no time for levity. It's pouring down now, so I've got to get the waterproofs out. I have to get there first thing because, as far as I know he only gets three copies in, so it's tricky. There were three blokes ahead of me in the queue on Thursday, and they were all sporting beards and pointy shoes. I had a panic attack, but one of them bough a Times so all was well. Gave me pause though.
Our local craft shop has started selling elbow patches, so I'll have to monitor the situation. I may have to up the ante by going back to my pipe.

boltonbonce wrote:
This is no time for levity. It's pouring down now, so I've got to get the waterproofs out. I have to get there first thing because, as far as I know he only gets three copies in, so it's tricky. There were three blokes ahead of me in the queue on Thursday, and they were all sporting beards and pointy shoes. I had a panic attack, but one of them bough a Times so all was well. Gave me pause though.
Our local craft shop has started selling elbow patches, so I'll have to monitor the situation. I may have to up the ante by going back to my pipe.

Waterproofs? Pointy shoes? Only three copies of the Grauniad? What kind of neighbourhood is that?

Grauniad readers round here wear sandals and there are thousands of 'em.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:What about my question to you though WS63?

I answered it DYOR.

Whitesince63 wrote:

I answered it DYOR.

Did you sort out your VPN, 63?

Virture signallers, holier-than-thou types and bullshitters have much in common, WS63.  

Bolton bonce: "Don't be so hard on yourself, Bob"
Very good, Boncey!      

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Okay, let’s test your theory then. Post your sources of Algerian migrants being the majority coming here and the illegal immigrant fiancé.

You haven’t answered this anywhere WS63, post where you’ve got this information from and we can test your theory out.

okocha wrote:
Bolton bonce: "Don't be so hard on yourself, Bob"
Very good, Boncey!      

You mustn't get Okocha over excited, Boncey. Its not good for him and he'll never get to sleep.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
You mustn't get Okocha over excited, Boncey. Its not good for him and he'll never get to sleep.

Don't talk to me about sleep, I didn't get a wink last night. I'll be face down at my desk by three, but I'm holding up for the moment.
Spent half the night watching the Andy Griffith Show. Very wholesome entertainment. Very calming, but it didn't put me to sleep.

boltonbonce wrote:
Don't talk to me about sleep, I didn't get a wink last night. I'll be face down at my desk by three, but I'm holding up for the moment.
Spent half the night watching the Andy Griffith Show. Very wholesome entertainment. Very calming, but it didn't put me to sleep.

Can't sleep? Okocha's your man. He'll sort it for you.

He's writing a book, you know. Well he said he was. If it was ever to get published it would put sleeping pill manufacturers out of business at a stroke.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:What about my question to you though WS63?

Seems pretty obvious to me that he's ignoring you (I don't blame him doing so personally!) and hectoring isn't going to change his mind is it?

I'll play though.

Firstly I have absolutely no idea if the boat was stuffed with Algerians or the woman's boyfriend was here illegally so it's all just speculation on my part (let's get that straight before we start) but we can at least apply some sort of logic that might give us a better chance of being more right than wrong.

My starting point is how much each migrant is paying for a spot on one of the boats.

We don't know really but this article following the deaths from the Daily Mirror reports a sum of £5,000 per person...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-criminal-gangs-making-5000-25543548

...and this report from the BBC from September last year as around £2,500.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-54358029

If then we agree on a figure of say £1,500 I think we can safely say that such an amount is probably less than what the real true figure is - agreed?

Ok, let's look at why the boat would be full of Algerians?

As far as I know there are no travel restrictions for Algerians to visit the UK (Covid aside).

Similarly as far as I know Algeria has no restrictions in issuing passports to its people?

This being the case then why would any Algerian risk their life crossing the Channel illegally when for less money could buy a return ticket to Heathrow, enter the country legally after acquiring their passport and an entry visa for a 'holiday' - then simply go underground when they got here - and become an illegal immigrant by that method?

Ok I've no idea how long it would take for them to get a passport and then a visitors visa (maybe they can't wait that long?) but it's certainly much safer and a lot cheaper?

On that line of logic it seems to me therefore that it is less likely that the boat was full of Algerians.

As for the boyfriend.

As far as I can understand he is a Iraqi Kurd.

As far as I know there's not been much of a stable government in Iraq for some while and the Kurds want independence from Iraq, Syria and Turkey, so I doubt he has a passport and therefore entered at least another country illegally initially?

Of course he could have been born and bred here for all I know but if he was the why not marry the girl and await a spouse visa, than have her risking her life as she did?

It seems to me on balance that the bloke probably came from Syria (I can't blame him for getting out with all that gone on their recently) and probably entered Turkey then possibly Greece illegally - loads clearly did.

Whether he sought asylum at the first EU country I don't know but clearly plenty didn't.

If he's ended up in the UK then I doubt he had a passport and if he is still here then I would assume he sought asylum here and been granted indefinite leave to remain?

It seems on balance to me therefore that he probably entered our country illegally.


Who knows if I'm right or wrong but it passed ten minutes of my time giving you an answer and allowing 63 to have a bit of peace and quiet from you!

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

You haven’t answered this anywhere WS63, post where you’ve got this information from and we can test your theory out.

Not planning to let this one go WS63 - surely you see the importance of using accurate information in this? It’s formed the basis of some pretty extreme views on your part.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

You haven’t answered this anywhere WS63, post where you’ve got this information from and we can test your theory out.

Not planning to let this one go WS63 - surely you see the importance of using accurate information in this? It’s formed the basis of some pretty extreme views on your part.

It takes two to tango - and I don't believe 63 intends to dance with you!

We all know where most of the bollocks people believe comes from and that from social media - Christ you're convinced (along with many, many others!) that Maughan is right in all the innuendo and spin he puts out on there on social media against the government - yet he's not actually proved a single shred of any evidence in getting on for two years now!!!

The braindead of America believed the utter and frankly totally unbelievable bollocks spouted by QAnon - the idiots even stormed the Capitol because they believed social media (rather than the actual facts and legal court cases) that Trump had lost the election!!!

It's the world we inhabit now - social media rules - and morons believe what they are fed on there.

Simple as that really.

I told everyone one on here that based on my knowledge and professional training that Anderson wasn't the crook social media were making him out to be - nobody listened to me.

Similarly I told everyone again that based on my knowledge and training that the sleaze and cronyism that Maughan has been pedalling couldn't possibly have happened because Civil Servants award contracts and not MP's fixing it for their mates - nobody listened to me this time either.

Why, because folk are like sheep and believe the (social media) crowd rather than some random. lone voice, like me!

63 has read somewhere (almost certainly on social media) that the boat was full of Algerians and the boyfriend was an illegal - and believed it to be true.

What's the difference between him doing that and you reading on social media about the 'Full Fact' 'verdict' they arrived at (in the post earlier in this thread) which you believed to be true - which clearly wasn't when it was written?

Absolutely no difference at all in my eyes - you both believed something you read on social media that quite simple wasn't true!!!

As I say such things are the norm these days.

People are naive or uneducated, too lazy, can't be bothered to research, suits what they want to believe, don't want to not be part of the crowd, or probably a thousand other reasons - and simply believe what the see on social media - and it is now the norm for others to use that gullibility to feed them deliberately fake news in order to push their own agendas.

I see Donald Trump is going to set up his own social media network - Christ it's frightening to think how many will join that when it happens and believe all the shite they will be fed!!!

Trump social media firm says it has raised $1bn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59538590

Ha, good lord.

Just for the record -

On Tuesday, France's justice ministry said the bodies of 26 of at least 27 victims had been identified and repatriation requests were under way.

The ministry said it could confirm the identity of 16 Kurdish people from Iraq, including four women aged 22 to 46, a 16-year-old teenager, a seven-year-old child and ten men aged 19 to 37, as well as that of a 23-year-old Kurdish man from Iran.

Three Ethiopians were also identified, including two women aged 22 and 25 and a man aged 46.

A Somali woman aged 33, four Afghan men aged between 24 and 40 and an Egyptian man aged 20 were also identified.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59650239