Sue Gray's report / Partygate

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Nothing personal but I think the time’s come for me to delete my account - it’s the only way to make sure I won’t log back on next time I see something I disagree with!

Thanks to everyone who over the years has made this a great forum of topics and opinions. And all the mods who’ve put the extra work in behind the scenes.

Might be back in future depending on personal circumstance - COYWM and all the best.

T.R.O.Y.

Sorry to see you go, I've enjoyed our little 'chats' although I doubt many others have.

All the best to you and hope your personal circumstance, whatever they may be, work out as you would want them to.

I value the site for news about the Wanderers, but also because I find opinions, especially from  educated, well-read, intelligent posters very interesting in their diversity. All should feel welcomed. That's the point of a forum for discussion.

Unfortunately, the failure to respond politely and reasonably has led to many resignations. Too many feel they have been unfairly abused. Bonce has been a big loss in this respect. A simple "sorry" could and should have avoided his departure. 

As Boris is discovering, words have consequences. I was unfairly and unfathomably attacked from day one, but I have stuck with it. To me, abuse reflects worse on the perpetrators than on the victims, so I can live with the jibes I have occasionally been on the receiving end of. I have learnt to ignore certain posters.

Wanderlust is clearly bright and has a lively interest in current affairs. He and TROY are prepared to be reasonable and are certainly knowledgeable, but they have breaking-points which lead them to respond in kind to nasty, personal attacks when pushed too far. I can understand that.

If we want the site to continue, we need to rein in the instinct to hurt or to retaliate, as Karly has so vividly and rightfully argued above.

(Doubtless, some will want to criticise me for writing this!)

So now we've lost TROY and Boncey recently, Nat hasn't been on and people like Glos rarely come on now. The site is dying a slow, painful death.

I'm beginning to wonder what the point is of actually coming on here anymore?

Jaysus - another interesting poster driven away.  Hope you're back soon TROY...and everyone else.

Like Okocha, for the good of my own mental health I have recently decided to steer clear of certain posters and have decided to ignore them. I can visit the site now without getting so wound up. Karly's comments on the cuntiness of the atmosphere recently definitely can't be directed at me. I think all of us on here know from 1st hand experience why this atmosphere exists. 

TBH I don't post much these days because I've lost interest in the site. It's obviously dying a slow and painful death. Bonce's recent departure along with Nat's disappearance don't help matters and now TROY has thrown the towel in as well.

Just adding my tuppeneth for what it’s worth, I just think that too many posters have intransigent positions and instead of threads becoming discussion topics upon which minds are open to change, they have completely closed views, hence my decision this morning to withdraw from the Brexit thread. I’ve attempted to be accepting of the way things have gone but find only negativity coming the other way.

Maybe if past issues were just shelved and everybody tried to have open minds on subjects the site might benefit. Everybody’s views are respected but rather than discuss around those views and accept others might be different, it seems some (Troy) would rather throw their toys out and walk away completely. That’s fine, everyone has a right to do that but I don’t understand why the football side, where us same posters share views on the team, management, owners and other matters harmoniously, can’t do the same on this side? Maybe we all just need a chill pill? 🥴

Whitesince63 wrote:Just adding my tuppeneth for what it’s worth, I just think that too many posters have intransigent positions and instead of threads becoming discussion topics upon which minds are open to change, they have completely closed views, hence my decision this morning to withdraw from the Brexit thread. I’ve attempted to be accepting of the way things have gone but find only negativity coming the other way.

Maybe if past issues were just shelved and everybody tried to have open minds on subjects the site might benefit. Everybody’s views are respected but rather than discuss around those views and accept others might be different, it seems some (Troy) would rather throw their toys out and walk away completely. That’s fine, everyone has a right to do that but I don’t understand why the football side, where us same posters share views on the team, management, owners and other matters harmoniously, can’t do the same on this side? Maybe we all just need a chill pill? 🥴

Good post 63.

Unfortunately that's how life is, people carry their own personal biased and prejudicial agendas around with them and look for / associate with others that share the same bias as they do and reinforce their own beliefs.

The term used to describe this - and how negative and toxic it can become is Filter Bubble - the individuals and the group form a bubble and become...

"...separated from information that disagrees with their viewpoints, effectively isolating them in their own cultural or ideological bubbles".

It becomes an 'echo chamber'

"...an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered".

That can clearly be seen in the behaviour of some posters on here who have long established and entrenched beliefs and refuse to even consider any alternative or opposing views, interpretation or explanation on things that clash with their own already predetermined and closed mind position.

You can even see it in evidence for yourself, take for instance the Good Law Project Twitter account.

Simply look at the replies to any tweet they make and scan their twitter bio intros of the responders - it soon becomes clear that nearly all of those replying have remarks in them which are anti Tory and/or pro-Europe and often contain both.

You can do the same with any 'right' leaning political twitter activists accounts who are followed by pro-Tory, pro- Brexit followers.

Birds of a feather do actually flock together.

The danger though is that in this day and age people often believe without question what they read off social media and then apply their own reinforced prejudicial beliefs and bias views on any news stories or debates everywhere else - such as here on Nuts.

That is the world we now live in.

As you can see from just here on Nuts, it is impossible to hold a rational debate with people with totally fixed and intransigent belief's and minds.

It's easy to show how ridiculous some of the things they have said to back up their point of view but they refuse to accept or admit it!

Anderson did rape the club - eg he stole £168m (no he didn't) everything the Tory Party do is sleazy or corrupt - eg Johnson will tell Gray what to write in her report - (no it isn't), etc, etc.

It's only going to get worse from now on unfortunately, we've already passed the tipping point.


For anybody interested about Filter Bubbles -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble


And to be fair to TROY we don't know his reasons for leaving the forum apart from him saying his personal circumstances seem to be such that he now has less time available to him to post on here (to presumably argue with you and I no doubt!).

I don't see that is him throwing his toys out nor some stance against me personally - which one or two clearly are trying to make it out to be.

I liked TROY.  He clearly contrived never ending arguments but he was savvy enough to not to pursue lines that he could see I had disproved him on.

He didn't lie and make wildly inaccurate and frankly stupid remarks to try and bolster up the ridiculous claims he had previously made unlike some...

Jesus Christ! You really need to take your finger off the Nuts self distruct button!

karlypants wrote:Jesus Christ! You really need to take your finger off the Nuts self distruct button!

Having spent some time watching from the outside, I think we need to press the reset button.

Look, I think Brexit is a mistake, I also believe climate change is a real and ongoing threat, but trying to batter people into submission because they hold a different view isn't doing me, them, or the forum, any favours.

Not my circus, not my monkeys.

boltonbonce wrote:
Having spent some time watching from the outside, I think we need to press the reset button.

Look, I think Brexit is a mistake, I also believe climate change is a real and ongoing threat, but trying to batter people into submission because they hold a different view isn't doing me, them, or the forum, any favours.

Not my circus, not my monkeys.

Plus it leaves no room for discussion of the real issues in the world today. I am personally deeply concerned about the owl people - they're infiltrating every walk of society.
Told my mate about them in the pub and he said "Who?"

They're everywhere.

karlypants wrote:Jesus Christ! You really need to take your finger off the Nuts self distruct button!

It's not on the Nuts self-destruct button or any other button for that matter, thank you.

What I've stated is factual and applies to how society functions in this current 'social media' age.

Nothing I can do about it - not though I would want to anyway - no point fighting battles you can't win.

If you or anyone else don't want to know about such things that's fine but the effects of it manifests itself on here, on all other forums and in life in general.

Maybe if people recognised how these things work they'd take more account of them in what they choose to believe and think and similarly to what and how others act and behave.

However it is quite another thing bothering to lead any horse to water if they choose not to drink from it.

The information is there if you or anyone else wants to read it and make their own minds up about it.

wanderlust wrote:
Plus it leaves no room for discussion of the real issues in the world today. I am personally deeply concerned about the owl people - they're infiltrating every walk of society.
Told my mate about them in the pub and he said "Who?"

They're everywhere.

You're not wrong. People just can't see. Do you sometimes feel like this?

boltonbonce wrote:
You're not wrong. People just can't see. Do you sometimes feel like this?

Thank god we had an architect to rid our planet of aliens on that occasion.

On that basis we'll probably need a camel driver to sort out the owl people.

boltonbonce wrote:Having spent some time watching from the outside, I think we need to press the reset button.

Look, I think Brexit is a mistake, I also believe climate change is a real and ongoing threat, but trying to batter people into submission because they hold a different view isn't doing me, them, or the forum, any favours.

Not my circus, not my monkeys.

You of course you are correct, Brexit is a mistake, climate change is real and battering people into submission because they hold a different view won't change their minds unless they are open to persuasion.

I don't see the point (never have done) to moan and bitch about Brexit since the Referendum result - but one of us has been doing it daily.

What good does it do?



I don't see the point of believing everything the Tory party does is wrong - just because you don't like the Tory party - even a broken clock gets it right a couple of times a day.

I don't see the need for anger and hatred and that's all we've had since Brexit and Anderson.

Anderson has now gone, Brexit has happened and the Tory party (whatever people want to believe) is not all bad.

I would very much like to see a reset on here - indeed I've said similar on multiple occasions that the fun had been lost on here and replaced by hatred and toxicity instead.

If we can finally move on from Anderson and Brexit, then we are two thirds the way there.

We need to now talk about politics in a grown up way and not prejudge absolutely everything the government does and has done to be bad, evil and corrupt.

That's not to say lies, mistakes, cock ups and attempted coverups haven't happened - they have but things like being hysterical and making outrageous claims that civil servants are complicity in sleaze and corruption need to be reigned in or backed up with proof.

Maybe then we can get Nuts back on an even keel again.

We need to soak them constantly with water to keep their numbers down.

They'll be too wet to woo.

Sorry.

boltonbonce wrote:We need to soak them constantly with water to keep their numbers down.

They'll be too wet to woo.

Sorry.

And so you should be. This is serious.

Sluffy wrote:

You of course you are correct, Brexit is a mistake, climate change is real and battering people into submission because they hold a different view won't change their minds unless they are open to persuasion.

I don't see the point (never have done) to moan and bitch about Brexit since the Referendum result - but one of us has been doing it daily.

What goes does it do?



I don't see the point of believing everything the Tory party does is wrong - just because you don't like the Tory party - even a broken clock gets it right a couple of times a day.

I don't see the need for anger and hatred and that's all we've had since Brexit and Anderson.

Anderson has now gone, Brexit has happened and the Tory party (whatever people want to believe) is not all bad.

I would very much like to see a reset on here - indeed I've said similar on multiple occasions that the fun had been lost on here and replaced by hatred and toxicity instead.

If we can finally move on from Anderson and Brexit, then we are two thirds the way there.

We need to now talk about politics in a grown up way and not prejudge absolutely everything the government does and has done to be bad, evil and corrupt.

That's not to say lies, mistakes, cock ups and attempted coverups haven't happened - they have but things like being hysterical and making outrageous claims that civil servants are complicity in sleaze and corruption need to be reigned in or backed up with proof.

Maybe then we can get Nuts back on an even keel again.

We can get on if we try. Look at Bob, he came in swinging, calling us all blockheads, and TWITS. Now look at him, he's the Thora Hird of Nuts. A National Treasure.

boltonbonce wrote:We can get on if we try. Look at Bob, he came in swinging, calling us all blockheads, and TWITS. Now look at him, he's the Thora Hird of Nuts. A National Treasure.

He's sloped off a bit since you left, he was quite fond of your gentle humour I think.

I do hope now you are back (you are back aren't you?) that he will be more frequent on here again.

Hope so anyway.

And yes we can all get on if we try but you can only do that if you leave all your past baggage behind.

I don't believe all of us would be able or willing to do that both in their actual life or also with their internet grudges they hold.

Maybe they could for a while but I think when people hate they sometimes are unable to forgive.

Maybe they will pleasantly surprise me and do so?

You never know until you give them the chance do you.

Sluffy, you also need to give it a rest too with past arguments, we’ve all heard your stories about certain posters and they don’t need repeating at every opportunity. Hopefully we can all forget about the past and move on.

I grew to like Bob, and I hope he'll be back soon. Was never sure about his choice in women, Olive Oyl not being my cup of tea, but each to his own. Being financially illiterate, it's difficult to navigate around your conversations with Bob, because I don't know what I'm looking at.
I did learn a few things though, and that can't be a bad thing.
Be nice if Johnny came back too. Get off that twitter thing Johnny and get back posting.
Then there's Nat. She's up to no good, or I'm a Dutchman.