Hillsborough

I've called my boss a 'Scouse git' on many occasions,much to his amusement. I don't know anyone from Liverpool who views the term as derogatory.
Scousers have a great sense of humour,and the banter I have with my boss and other members of his scouse workforce is one of the reasons I still enjoy the daily grind.
Long may it continue.

Bread makes a good point, it is clear to anyone that what was reported at the time was wrong and the actions of the police and press following were inexcusable, however we need to be careful not to colour the current findings based on a current distrust of large institutions like the police, all involved in that terrible day should be able to take away lessons to prevent anything like that ever happening again.

I worked in Liverpool for nearly two years and they all happily refer to themselves as Scousers.

I thin this is a case of a middle-class person not really understanding the subject matter.

No offence intended.

I dont know a lot of people from Liverpool. About 5.and they all call themselves scousers.

There was even a programme on the bbc a couple of years ago called scousers say the funniest things. It was basically scousers telling jokes

Yes, I know, of course......but the Liverpudlians you are talking about were presumably not connected to the Hillsborough victims. It's not been easy for these families to accept the worst parts of the stereotype that are associated with the word, when they are standing in court facing an authority happy for them to have been painted in a less than flattering light. Ask yourself why the police formed a cordon across the width of the pitch rather than rush to the assistance of those being crushed. What were their prejudgements of fans? What were their expectations?

Why not listen to what some interviewees yesterday and today were saying about trying to shake off the connotations that sprang up which implied that Scousers were dim, idle scroungers, trouble-makers and chancers. I can think of several TV shows that used the term to depict them as thieves, a stereotype that you yourself would not want to be landed with, especially as the police wanted exactly that to be the case in order to be able to shift the blame to them. The media obliged sickeningly. The victims, family and friends needed to be seen as honest before they could get justice. The police did their level best to maintain that image of Scousers as unlawful and not to be trusted.

That's got fuck all to do with the word scouser.

So why do the victims say that it has, y2j?

Look, we're not going to change minds batting this backwards and forwards, are we?  Best leave it here.  Interesting debate, though, for a while.

In any case, what is important now is  how the court's decision moves the situation on....and it looks as if suspensions and prosecutions are being called for.

Some chaps on my squadron from Liverpool and surrounding bits and I've never heard them complaining about being called "Scouser, or "Scouse.". I thought it was to do with the stew they scoffed.

I will make a few comments and then leave it. In the 80s I was in the RAF and we used to travel to loads of games watching different teams as I had mates who followed Sunderland, Bristol City, Man United and a few other teams. These lads also used to come and watch Bolton from time to time. We went to some big games back then, and met a lot of characters from pretty much every set of supporters. A lot of Man United fans used to blag it in to away grounds, and also manage to travel from Manchester to London without ever buying a ticket. This was no different to what the Scousers were doing. I call them Scousers because that's what they were. Even singing "Scousers here, Scousers there, Scousers every fucking where" when I saw them running amok in Euston or emptying the shelves of the shops in the Service stations. Just the same as United and the Geordies, and even us lot (Bolton) by the way.

There is no doubt that everyone feels really horrified by what transpired that day in Sheffield, and it could have happened if it had been United or Newcastle or whoever in reality, but the fact is, a few of the big clubs were known for travelling in massive numbers without tickets and trying it on. I don't think anyone on here is denying that the Police fucked up and tried to cover their mistakes by lying, but it really does get to me now that the Fans are portrayed as heroes and blameless. There were some heroes that day. They were the people in the upper tier pulling people up, and the ones helping people move sideways or over the railings. The people pushing in through the gates were not heroes, and they absolutely have some accountability to what happened despite what the report says. I often wonder if any of the fans that went in without tickets have sleepless nights, because I would, and when they sing Justice for the 96 at Anfield, do these individuals consider going down to the Police Station to admit that they had forced there way in without a ticket that day and feel that they should shoulder just one ounce of the blame ?

Dunkels King wrote:I will make a few comments and then leave it. In the 80s I was in the RAF and we used to travel to loads of games watching different teams as I had mates who followed Sunderland, Bristol City, Man United and a few other teams. These lads also used to come and watch Bolton from time to time. We went to some big games back then, and met a lot of characters from pretty much every set of supporters. A lot of Man United fans used to blag it in to away grounds, and also manage to travel from Manchester to London without ever buying a ticket. This was no different to what the Scousers were doing. I call them Scousers because that's what they were. Even singing "Scousers here, Scousers there, Scousers every fucking where" when I saw them running amok in Euston or emptying the shelves of the shops in the Service stations. Just the same as United and the Geordies, and even us lot (Bolton) by the way.

There is no doubt that everyone feels really horrified by what transpired that day in Sheffield, and it could have happened if it had been United or Newcastle or whoever in reality, but the fact is, a few of the big clubs were known for travelling in massive numbers without tickets and trying it on. I don't think anyone on here is denying that the Police fucked up and tried to cover their mistakes by lying, but it really does get to me now that the Fans are portrayed as heroes and blameless. There were some heroes that day. They were the people in the upper tier pulling people up,and the ones helping people move sideways or over the railings. The people pushing in through the gates were not heroes, and they absloutely have some accountability to what happened despite what the report says. I often wonder if any of the fans that went in without tickets have sleepless nights, because I would.

Nailed it for me. 

Me too.

Well said.

Me three. Great post. 

Best post so far. I think most supporters who've ever travelled the country know the score.

Dunkels you need to post more often, agree with everyone else about your post.

The police were at fault for cramming the Liverpool supporters inside. They could see the terrace was full so why open the gates? They have been found responsible and that's the end of it at last.

mark leach wrote:The police were at fault for cramming the Liverpool supporters inside. They could see the terrace was full so why open the gates? They have been found responsible and that's the end of it at last.

Mark,
I wish it was the end of it- but it isn't by a long chalk. This will run and run. Family's of those who died are launching court cases against  two police forces (South Yorkshire and West midlands)  the DPP and CPS are looking at the possibility of criminal charges to commence probably next year . This will still be on-going 10 years from now with hearings and appeals. The Liverpool supporters in general have been victims of a witch hunt and now individual ex police officers (now retired) will be the subject of intense legal scrutiny. Rightly or wrongly( I have no personal opinion about this) this might just have started.

y2johnny wrote:http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=18862.0

http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-6353,00.html

That sorts that out then. It appears Okocha was indeed talking shite.

I have worked with many people from Liverpool over the years and I have never come across one who was offended by being referred to as a Scouser. If anything, they were proud of the nickname. No different than people from Newcastle referring to themselves as Geordies, people from Sunderland calling themselves Mackems and Manchester folk being referred to as Mancs.

The word 'Scouse' derives from ' a pan of scouse ' which was a staple diet of the poorer folk of Liverpool in bygone times. 

The folk from Wales are happy to be referred to as Taffs and the Scottish are equally happy as Jocks.

The word Scouse has been part of Liverpool way before the events at Hillsborough and to suggest it is suddenly a derogatory term as a result of that tragedy is political correctness gone mad.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-04-29/retired-police-officer-i-disagree-with-hillsborough-inquest-findings/

This guy's being vilified by the media for saying what a lot of us believe to be true.

He's probably at the age where he's comfortable enough with who he is to be able to say: "Fuck it, I know what happened and I'm not afraid to give my opinion because I was there and I know what went on. If you don't like it that's your problem."

It's just a shame that the way the modern world works, he'll be slagged off across social media and then as a direct result, then be hung out to dry by the popular press who take their lead from what appears to be popular on Twitter and Facebook, without serious consideration of his (qualified) opinion and then be branded a bitter old fool.

Just because it's currently "en vogue" to heap praise on the Hillsborough campaigners and automatically dismiss the opinions of anyone who contradicts them.

We used to be better than that.

As others have already said, it's inconceivable for some of us older contributors to accept that it's all done now and the Liverpool fans were all heroes.

Bollocks.