Bolton's financial position even WORSE than we thought?

Reebok Trotter wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Maybe down the road the investors & directors in the club will make a ton of cash with these land scams and good luck to them.  However most of us are only interested in what happens on the pitch.
On that front we have undercut the investment needed to gain promotion. For the want of say 5 million spent on 3 or 4 good players we could piss this league IMO.  You have the golden goose waiting in the Prem with all the associated money to follow.
It's a shame really.

My sentiments as well but it's a real worry for the future if we can't stump up 1.5 million for a player. Where is the money from the Macron sponsorship deal?

Does anyone know how much the deal was worth?

Knowing our luck, it will be 300k for 10 years.

karlypants wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Maybe down the road the investors & directors in the club will make a ton of cash with these land scams and good luck to them.  However most of us are only interested in what happens on the pitch.
On that front we have undercut the investment needed to gain promotion. For the want of say 5 million spent on 3 or 4 good players we could piss this league IMO.  You have the golden goose waiting in the Prem with all the associated money to follow.
It's a shame really.

My sentiments as well but it's a real worry for the future if we can't stump up 1.5 million for a player. Where is the money from the Macron sponsorship deal?

Does anyone know how much the deal was worth?

Knowing our luck, it will be 300k for 10 years.

With it being Bolton, it wouldn't surprise me if we are paying them 300k for 10 years!

Sluffy wrote:

karlypants wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Maybe down the road the investors & directors in the club will make a ton of cash with these land scams and good luck to them.  However most of us are only interested in what happens on the pitch.
On that front we have undercut the investment needed to gain promotion. For the want of say 5 million spent on 3 or 4 good players we could piss this league IMO.  You have the golden goose waiting in the Prem with all the associated money to follow.
It's a shame really.

My sentiments as well but it's a real worry for the future if we can't stump up 1.5 million for a player. Where is the money from the Macron sponsorship deal?

Does anyone know how much the deal was worth?

Knowing our luck, it will be 300k for 10 years.

With it being Bolton, it wouldn't surprise me if we are paying them 300k for 10 years!

Wonder what Fatslime is pocketing. Greedy twat

So it's not "old news" after all.

The BN have just confirmed it's true:

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Why are the BEN not allowing comments to be posted on that article? 

Is it because the club have written a bullshit excuse an article for them, had it printed in the BEN and now don't want people to question it? 

Trust me - it will be questioned, there is a shitstorm slowly brewing over this, from both the fans and the media.

Reebok_Rebel wrote:Why are the BEN not allowing comments to be posted on that article? 

Is it because the club have written a bullshit excuse an article for them, had it printed in the BEN and now don't want people to question it? 

Trust me - it will be questioned, there is a shitstorm slowly brewing over this, from both the fans and the media.

Why do you care, you said you'd given up on BWFC.

See you at Victory Park on 9th August? Pies are on you.

We're all very good at spending other people's money aren't we?

I think that the signing over of the parachute payments to the Bank indicate that the club has already been to the well too many times in the past so everything is in hock and the credit line has long since stopped.

To many of us, a few million more wouldn't seem a lot in the scheme of things - but if that's what they asked for last time - and the time before - it simply wouldn't be an option. A line has to be drawn somewhere and I reckon we've already crossed it.

Sluffy wrote:

karlypants wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Maybe down the road the investors & directors in the club will make a ton of cash with these land scams and good luck to them.  However most of us are only interested in what happens on the pitch.
On that front we have undercut the investment needed to gain promotion. For the want of say 5 million spent on 3 or 4 good players we could piss this league IMO.  You have the golden goose waiting in the Prem with all the associated money to follow.
It's a shame really.

My sentiments as well but it's a real worry for the future if we can't stump up 1.5 million for a player. Where is the money from the Macron sponsorship deal?

Does anyone know how much the deal was worth?

Knowing our luck, it will be 300k for 10 years.

With it being Bolton, it wouldn't surprise me if we are paying them 300k for 10 years!

And just for laughs ...what if we do by a miracle get promoted....where on earth do we get the money to compete at that level. It's catch 22 alright.

We'll spend the minimum we can, promotion will bring massive revenue and refresh the parachute payments. Being a yoyo club pays.

terenceanne wrote:


And just for laughs ...what if we do by a miracle get promoted....where on earth do we get the money to compete at that level. It's catch 22 alright.

I honestly don't think anybody within the club would care how we fared in The Prem if we got up.

We could have an abject season, finish 20th with a new record low points total and still receive seventy odd million quid.

Interestingly, whilst trying to find out how much you would receive in prize money for the 2015/16 season (ie the first chance we would have to earn some), I discovered that the year we went down (2011/12) we received £40.5m.

Where the fuck did that go....?

Even if we had five players on £20k a week, that's only £5.2m over a year.

If we take an average of £10k a week for the rest, that gives us roughly £9.3m.

£9.3m + £5.2m = £14.5m in total.

Where did the other £26m plus all the other revenue earned go....?

We must have some bloody expensive grass on that pitch......

So if you stop and think about it, that season we still lost money in overall terms and I'm wondering how that could happen.

Take the wage bill out, as I've done above, and we still lost the £26m quoted plus everything else we made that year from ticket sales, shirts, pies, scarves, mugs (the pottery kind - not us), corporate stuff, charging charities to play games at the Reebok and everything fucking else.....

How are we still trading?

Seriously......?

Breadman wrote:

terenceanne wrote:
And just for laughs ...what if we do by a miracle get promoted....where on earth do we get the money to compete at that level. It's catch 22 alright.

I honestly don't think anybody within the club would care how we fared in The Prem if we got up.

We could have an abject season, finish 20th with a new record low points total and still receive seventy odd million quid.

Interestingly, whilst trying to find out how much you would receive in prize money for the 2015/16 season (ie the first chance we would have to earn some), I discovered that the year we went down (2011/12) we received £40.5m.

Where the fuck did that go....?

Even if we had five players on £20k a week, that's only £5.2m over a year.

If we take an average of £10k a week for the rest, that gives us roughly £9.3m.

£9.3m + £5.2m = £14.5m in total.

Where did the other £26m plus all the other revenue earned go....?

We must have some bloody expensive grass on that pitch......

So if you stop and think about it, that season we still lost money in overall terms and I'm wondering how that could happen.

Take the wage bill out, as I've done above, and we still lost the £26m quoted plus everything else we made that year from ticket sales, shirts, pies, scarves, mugs (the pottery kind - not us), corporate stuff, charging charities to play games at the Reebok and everything fucking else.....

How are we still trading?

Seriously......?

I agree that the situation is totally baffling. In our last season in the Prem we had 12,000 ST holders iirc. Where has all the money gone?

ST income is peanuts in the scheme of things.

Remember we had a bunch of players on £1.5 million a year- each. Still have a few. The total ST income could perhaps pay for 2 or 3 players over a season. 

Last year it paid for Eagles, Knight and Mears.

Who in the current squad is earning 30 grand a week?

And, anyway, that covers part of it but where's the rest (and majority of it) gone....?

I ask again, how can we still be a "viable concern" if every penny we earn is consumed servicing the debt and we're still losing money hand over fist?

Breadman wrote:Who in the current squad is earning 30 grand a week?

And, anyway, that covers part of it but where's the rest (and majority of it) gone....?

I ask again, how can we still be a "viable concern" if every penny we earn is consumed servicing the debt and we're still losing money hand over fist?

I think Spearing and Lee are on that with a few others not far behind.

The money has gone into land development hasn't it?

No idea....

Question:

Has BWFC's asset value risen in direct proportion to the rise in debt?

i.e. if BWFC owes £163 million would BWFC get more or less than £163 million if it sold off the ground, the land and other assets?

I assume rise in debt is matched by the rise in assets - is this correct?

Just like corporations around the world...the money gets shuffled away into off shore accounts, executive perks, various tax fiddles.......why do you think all the top dogs actually work there.  Of course there are other valid expenses that we are not aware of but until I see Phil and Eddie selling their houses because they can't pay the mortgages I think its safe to say they are doing better than us.

wanderlust wrote:Question:

Has BWFC's asset value risen in direct proportion to the rise in debt?

i.e. if BWFC owes £163 million would BWFC get more or less than £163 million if it sold off the ground, the land and other assets?

I assume rise in debt is matched by the rise in assets - is this correct?

Again....no idea.

However, even if the assets in question covered the debt valuation (explaining why we've not been wound up yet), what's the pay-back term to get back in the black and start turning a profit?

If you went to your boss with a Capex in your hand which involved ploughing every penny the business had into your proposal, every year for the next ten years and which involved the business getting itself into a level of debt which would make a small African country blush.....what do you think his response would be?

You'd need to have a very clear indication of what the pay-back was going to be and how long it would take to start turning a profit again at the very least.

I can't see any of this where Bolton are concerned.

It's fine releasing artist's impressions of what the new Middlebrook developments are going to look like, but it doesn't properly explain how these new ventures are going to help the club.

You can't just say "They'll make us a more robust business" like we've been hearing.....

I'm not daft and I know Gartside is under no obligation to keep the likes of us abreast of what's going on, but it couldn't hurt to give us a bit of an insight into what the plan is, because to the casual observer, it looks like we're sinking fast.....