Leeds v Bolton

Had to get a thread going about this as this is a crunch tie so early in the season - and it's only 4 days away. It was a massive shock when we battered them in this fixture last year but it looks like it will be a lot closer this time around - at least on paper.
Both managers are under threat and desperate for all 3 points
Leeds are immediately above us in the table - beat Leeds and we're out of the bottom 3
Finkelstein rates Leeds as one of the only two teams in the entire division less likely than us to get promoted so it's a "must win" - or more accurately "must not lose" game.

I hate predicting this kind of game but I'm going for an unsatisfactory 1 - 1 with an improved performance from us but ending the day still stuck in the bottom 3.
That's what I expect. What I hope is we'll finally find our feet and batter them again.

We've been here a million times before. We simply don't beat struggling teams. Ever.

We will lose heavily in my opinion, the players won't fancy it.

I feel we will get our first win of the season at Elland Road.

0-2 to the trotters.

As I said on the prediction thread compo-thingy, two bad teams, neither of whom can defend, so I reckon there will be goals at each end and it'll wind up 2-2.

I think the players know if they keep flopping the Manager will fall off their back, expect another flop.

scottjames30 wrote:I think the players know if they keep flopping the Manager will fall off their back, expect another flop.

This manager is picking them so why would they want a different manager?

its early for a must win for both sides but thats what it is in effect. If Leeds lose Cellini will more than likely sack their manager and if we lose the pressure builds even more on Dougie.
I reckon a 2-2 draw with neither side being happy with it.

Got a feeling we'll lose 2-0.
If we do manage to win it'll probably be curtains for Dave Hockaday.

Direct quote from Freedman in today's BN:

“I honestly don’t think we’ve been playing badly.

“It isn’t as if we’re sitting back and playing timid football.

“I see us hitting teams on the break and giving it a right good go."


The stats in all of our league games this season would tend to indicate otherwise in my view - an average of 40% possession and I think the BBC credited us with nine shots to Brighton's twenty six on Saturday, only one of which (our goal) was on target.

I think he's losing the plot......

This counterattacking/hitting teams on the break stuff seems to be an obsession. It's not as if we're got a rock solid defence and 4 greyhounds up front. Plus telling everyone what you're going to do isn't the smartest move. 
What's wrong with straightforward attacking as a team/defending as a team?

Breadman wrote:Direct quote from Freedman in today's BN:

“I honestly don’t think we’ve been playing badly.

“It isn’t as if we’re sitting back and playing timid football.

“I see us hitting teams on the break and giving it a right good go."


The stats in all of our league games this season would tend to indicate otherwise in my view - an average of 40% possession and I think the BBC credited us with nine shots to Brighton's twenty six on Saturday, only one of which (our goal) was on target.

I think he's losing the plot......

I fear we're beginning to get what we wished for. Calls for him to explain his constant 'the fans can see what we're doing' quote have slowly started to be answered in his interviews and I'm not sure it's what we wanted to hear...

For example:
'Unfortunately today we were a little bit open - it was a case of 'you have a couple (of chances), we'll have a couple' - but that's not the way I want to play. I want there to be one chance, and we win 1-0.'

I can't for the life of me understand what he wasn't dragged into the office after that statement. He needs a slap.

It's no wonder crowds are plummeting.

wanderlust wrote:This counterattacking/hitting teams on the break stuff seems to be an obsession. It's not as if we're got a rock solid defence and 4 greyhounds up front. Plus telling everyone what you're going to do isn't the smartest move. 
What's wrong with straightforward attacking as a team/defending as a team?

One of the first things we've agreed on.

wanderlust wrote:This counterattacking/hitting teams on the break stuff seems to be an obsession. It's not as if we're got a rock solid defence and 4 greyhounds up front. Plus telling everyone what you're going to do isn't the smartest move. 
What's wrong with straightforward attacking as a team/defending as a team?

I totally agree - we clearly don't have the players to play this way. I'm not convinced that's what he is trying to do though. He is seemingly happy to defend, eventually get possession of the ball and play the patient game, looking for an opening and happy to play the ball back if there isn't one. He is happy with creating one chance per game, remember.

finlaymcdanger wrote:

Breadman wrote:Direct quote from Freedman in today's BN:

“I honestly don’t think we’ve been playing badly.

“It isn’t as if we’re sitting back and playing timid football.

“I see us hitting teams on the break and giving it a right good go."


The stats in all of our league games this season would tend to indicate otherwise in my view - an average of 40% possession and I think the BBC credited us with nine shots to Brighton's twenty six on Saturday, only one of which (our goal) was on target.

I think he's losing the plot......

I fear we're beginning to get what we wished for. Calls for him to explain his constant 'the fans can see what we're doing' quote have slowly started to be answered in his interviews and I'm not sure it's what we wanted to hear...

For example:
'Unfortunately today we were a little bit open - it was a case of 'you have a couple (of chances), we'll have a couple' - but that's not the way I want to play. I want there to be one chance, and we win 1-0.'

I can't for the life of me understand what he wasn't dragged into the office after that statement. He needs a slap.

It's no wonder crowds are plummeting.

Unfortunately it's been obvious for some time that this was exactly how Dougie wants to play all along. He's been insanely cautious and negative in his mindset ever since he got the Palace job and he's brought that same mindset here. It might have had a chance of working but not with the general quality of players we had when he arrived and it's largely gone down since. 

Dougie displays the same "don't concede at all costs" method of thinking that Gary Megson has and frankly it's every bit as boring and ineffective now as it was then. His insistence that it's a "modern" way to play only shows his incompetence all the more clearly as teams have been setting up to "hold the line and hit on the break" almost as long as the game has existed. The difference is that most teams use that when they're up against sides they know are better than them on paper and will exploit any gaps they might leave but when against peers or teams lower than them in quality the system adapts to take advantage of their own strengths or superiority. 

Unfortunately Dougie, like Megson has reached a conclusion that it's the only way to play and in so doing has transmitted to his players the belief (and to be honest fear) that they aren't good enough to attack anybody. He's built in a sense of inferiority that has become a self-fulfilling prophecy as morale drops and mistakes become ever more common and ever more costly. 

When players expect to lose and expect to mess up even before a ball has been kicked then it generally happens and it's one more reason why I believe he has to go now before the damage gets any worse or even becomes completely irreparable.

It's not as straightforward as that though. Not sure how it happens but we do get chances and have had the opportunity to win it in all the games so far apart from Watford.
Not enough chances IMO but we do seem to get them. And then fluff them.

Sadly 2-0 for me...... I have us down to lose all our away games until evidence is provided that we can even be in the game 50/50.  Of course hoping for better but not with my money.

wanderlust wrote:It's not as straightforward as that though. Not sure how it happens but we do get chances and have had the opportunity to win it in all the games so far apart from Watford.
Not enough chances IMO but we do seem to get them. And then fluff them.

Just my point lusty, our confidence is on the floor so we fluff what chances we get because (in my honest opinion) Dougie's fearful approach and negative mindset is transmitting itself to the players. He believes they'll screw up and now they do so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

wrong thread KP

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:It's not as straightforward as that though. Not sure how it happens but we do get chances and have had the opportunity to win it in all the games so far apart from Watford.
Not enough chances IMO but we do seem to get them. And then fluff them.

Just my point lusty, our confidence is on the floor so we fluff what chances we get because (in my honest opinion) Dougie's fearful approach and negative mindset is transmitting itself to the players. He believes they'll screw up and now they do so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So Cavies missing that sitter for example is the manager's fault? 

You are hilarious.

wanderlust wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:It's not as straightforward as that though. Not sure how it happens but we do get chances and have had the opportunity to win it in all the games so far apart from Watford.
Not enough chances IMO but we do seem to get them. And then fluff them.

Just my point lusty, our confidence is on the floor so we fluff what chances we get because (in my honest opinion) Dougie's fearful approach and negative mindset is transmitting itself to the players. He believes they'll screw up and now they do so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So Cavies missing that sitter for example is the manager's fault? 

You are hilarious.

lusty you are either being deliberately obtuse or are in fact much less intelligent than I thought. I'm talking about an attitude, a mindset that has pervaded our team from the top down. The manager sets out a deeply negative stall, basically allowing the opposition to roam more or less at will and have the lion's share of possession. 

HIs cautiousness and negativity is out of hand; I think even you can admit that and his FEAR of losing games overrides everything else so we don't go out on the attack even when we should. As a result of him projecting that mindset the players begin to believe instinctively that they aren't good enough and will make a mistake. Once that mindset takes hold it becomes difficult if not impossible to change it in the individual's mind from within. 

I don't say Dougie should have scored Cravies chance but the fact Cravies fluffed it and we've fluffed most of the few chances we've created is a symptom of the problem we can all see if we look clearly. There's a deep seated lack of confidence within the club that stems from Dougie's office down just as if we had a more confident manager, one who would tell the players to go for it and enjoy themselves when we can you'd see an upswing in player confidence and in the way they play. 

This is simple psychology; if the man in charge tells you you're rubbish even indirectly then you'll start to believe it. If he tells you you're awesome then your performance will improve as you subconsciously strive to match that assessment. You might not really BE awesome but if the boss says you are you're going to work harder and feel better about yourself than you will if he spends all his time telling you to play in Dougie's negative, boring, fearful style.