Local Elections: Stupid Voters

Natasha Whittam wrote:

chipbutty wrote:

Firstly, The Cons were not voted into power and please god, for the sake of 99% of us never will be again.

To slash and burn investment in our country the way they have is the policy of the deluded and then, when it is clearly proved to be the wrong approach resulting in greater borrowing, to carry-on with no plan 'B' is madness.

Bolton council, like all northern councils, have to make saving of £ Millions (I forget the exact figure) because the ConDem government have cut their allocation. Schools have had their investment/improvement programme cancelled. The police have had their budget cut by 20%. VAT increased to 20%.

Oh yeah, At the same time, the people with more money than they know what to do with have had their rate of of income tax (if they pay it) reduced by 5%.

Unless you have inherited wealth with no social conscience, there is no reason for you to vote Tory. But even then, that is insufficient reason.

The Conservatives got the most votes and a Conservative is the PM, so stop being so bloody picky.

I disagree with you, I think the massive budget cuts will save this country in the long-term. I accept that some of these cuts have not come in the right places, but overall it had to be done.

Let's see how the markets respond to an election of a socialist promising to spend in a deluded fashion.

CB, may well read The Wicked Witch, but my perspective came from a series on TV explaining how we got into our current financial straits, the key decisions made, and by whom.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

You seem to have it in for the rich. I agree that those who inherit their fortunes should be taxed to the hilt, but those who created their own wealth should pay no more than Mr Average. Why should you be penalised for being successful?

The rich got us into this mess. Nobody is saying you should be penalised for being successful, but that the wealthiest should pay the most tax.

We need successful business men/woman. Entrepreneurs who should be rewarded for their skills and hard work. Role models that our young people can look-up to and try to emulate. At the same time we must respect the work force, the men and woman on the shop-floor, the people who make all the plans and ideas happen.

This government (forget the Lib Dems) like all Tory governments belittle the working class, trade unions are demonized with the help of the right-wing press.

The wealthy want their children to be educated privately and to have private healthcare. Ok they can afford it so let them get on with it. But the vast majority of us are not in that position and rely on the state. It is the mark of a civilized society that the vulnerable are cared for. The Conservative dogma is the 'trickle down society'. Look after those at the top and all will benefit, except it doesn't work. If you're not rich or haven't a well paid job, (or any job) it's your own fault get off your arse and don't look for hand-outs.

When cuts are made in state provide services it is those in need who suffer most. Bolton is a low wage economy town (hence all the £pound shops) and when the screw is turned it hurts all the more. Why anyone in Bolton, or places like it, would vote Conservative is beyond me

chipbutty wrote: Why anyone in Bolton, or places like it, would vote Conservative is beyond me

Well, this says more about you than everyone else.

More people in England have voted Conservative than Labour in the last two general elections.

Your views on the Conservative Party are seriously outdated, to be frank. You sound like a columnist for the Morning Star or The Socialist Worker. You remind me of when Dennis Skinner gets a go at PMQs. People on both sides of the house cringe.

Here are some reasons why people who aren't rich vote Conservative:

1 - Always been the best party at protecting British interests abroad, going back 200 years. In recent times - EEC rebate negotiated by Thatcher and given up by Blair, Falklands, opting out of the ERM, Cameron using his veto, happy to upset the French. Anti-European and pro-Sterling.

2 - In general, they aim to reduce taxation to stimulate the economy, as opposed to Labour who generally 'tax & spend'. You refer to 'trickle down' economics but that was a 1980s principle which demonstrably failed. The 1980s are long finished.

3 - Aren't owned by the Trade Unions.

4 - Supportive of entrepreneurialism. You don't have to be wealthy to be an enterpreneur.

5 - England is by nature a conservative (small c) country, compared to the other constituent members of the UK.

We no longer live in a society where poor = vote Labour and rich = vote Conservative. There are lots of hypocritical socialists living in big houses and driving Jaguars around. The difference between the two main parties is pretty small in this day and age. Which is why I find your views out of date.

largehat wrote:

chipbutty wrote: Why anyone in Bolton, or places like it, would vote Conservative is beyond me

Well, this says more about you than everyone else.

More people in England have voted Conservative than Labour in the last two general elections.

Your views on the Conservative Party are seriously outdated, to be frank. You sound like a columnist for the Morning Star or The Socialist Worker. You remind me of when Dennis Skinner gets a go at PMQs. People on both sides of the house cringe.

Here are some reasons why people who aren't rich vote Conservative:

1 - Always been the best party at protecting British interests abroad, going back 200 years. In recent times - EEC rebate negotiated by Thatcher and given up by Blair, Falklands, opting out of the ERM, Cameron using his veto, happy to upset the French. Anti-European and pro-Sterling.

2 - In general, they aim to reduce taxation to stimulate the economy, as opposed to Labour who generally 'tax & spend'. You refer to 'trickle down' economics but that was a 1980s principle which demonstrably failed. The 1980s are long finished.

3 - Aren't owned by the Trade Unions.

4 - Supportive of entrepreneurialism. You don't have to be wealthy to be an entrepreneur.

5 - England is by nature a conservative (small c) country, compared to the other constituent members of the UK.

We no longer live in a society where poor = vote Labour and rich = vote Conservative. There are lots of hypocritical socialists living in big houses and driving Jaguars around. The difference between the two main parties is pretty small in this day and age. Which is why I find your views out of date.

Very strange post if I may say so Large. You accuse me of being 'out of date' but ramble on about 'going back 200yrs' and Thatcher and the Falklands, opting out of the ERM. Your lot took us in (the ERM) with disastrous consequences, remember black Wednesday 15% interest rates, negative equity, people losing their homes as well as their jobs, 3million unemployed. Who said it's a price worth paying? You may choose to forget but I won't.

Tax and spend you say, yes I should hope so. After 18 miserable years of Tory rule, lack of investment in the fabric of our society, leaky school roofs 40 pupils to a class, hospital patients having to stay on trollies, remember the poll-tax riots where the police faced the rioters with dustbin lids. Of course there has to be tax and spend, spend on the comunity, spend on the inferstuture, spend on education.

Why do you think that socialists don't have nice expencive houses or good quality cars (Jags are a bit naff). You don't know where I live or what car I drive. I'll turn your own words back on you. This says more about you than anything.

I did give some examples of why the Tories protect British interests abroad from the past, but I also gave recent examples too. So I'm comfortable with that point. Your counter points are all 20 years old. I'm just explaining to you why you don't have to be rich to vote Conservative - most people in this country don't want further integration into the European Union - most people in this country think Labour let immigration get out of control - and trust the Tories to do a better job in protecting our borders both physically and politically.

Again I am trying to let you know why people vote Conservative rather than engage you in a political slagging match. Even if you're right about 18 years of miserable Tory rule, it ended 15 years ago and you've decided you would never vote for them based on that - fair enough, your vote - but it's clear others don't feel the same way. Remember you said that why people in towns like Bolton vote Conservative is beyond you - the answer is because not everyone shares your view of the last Tory government and of those that do, they've seen Labour in action for 13 years and the Tories gaining 310 out of 650 seats at the last election was the outcome.

I'd respond to your last paragraph but I don't understand what you're asking me. There are socialists who have material wealth, is what I was saying, just as there are poor people who vote Conservative.

Thing is British seem to think they are alone in not wanting more integration within the EU - which is very xenophobic. The actual reality is that very few people on mainland Europe want more integration - hence the reason in teh rise of the minority political parties, but this doesn't get reported in the UK, why not? Do the press want to keep the other countries of the EU as a formidable force against the UK, with regards to intergration?



If anything I do not trust any of the major parties when it comes to immigration. Immigration was increasing under the last Conservative government, and they did nothing, Labour also did nothing, although the numbers did stable for a while, but even now immigration is far exceeding the numbers the government expect - why? because there are so many ports of entry not manned, visa's not properly controlled - all because of reduction in manpower at the Border Agency. If anything the UK should apply the exact same rules as what Australia does, and be hard about it - sure we have to allow EU citizens travel and work, just as much as they do to us, because we are part of the EU. (my major gripe is that why do we need to have passport control for flying to/from an EU country - sure show your passport (of ID card if have one) at the check-in desk/or when check-in online, but thats all is required - the government bodies (both UK and country of arrival/exit) know who is on what flight and what seat as soon as you book.



What makes me laugh, especially in Bolton. How many letters, blogs etc does one read about the Labour council destroying the town centre, killing the borough etc etce tc and yet they keep getting voted in and so being allowed to kill the town even more!!!

Good reading guys. Feel we all need to sit around a table, with beer, so that we can argue and counter argue much quicker. For what its worth, when I first started voting, in 1968, I always voted Liberal, mainly because my parents did, and I liked their reasons. Then I went through the process of gaining my independence, thinking that I'm working class, therefore I should vote Labour. As I got older, I realised that wasn't an argument at all, and began to vote Conservative, (for many of the arguments that LH puts forward). Recently, and for the first time isince 1968, I refused to vote in an election, (albeit local), because I genuinely didn't have faith in either main party, locally or nationally. My intention at this time is just to sit tight, survive the next couple of years, listen to all the bullshit and promises, and make a decision then. Working out how we got here, politically, makes no difference for me, as I know the situation is more likely to influence the major outcomes, rather than the party's own history.