Seems the Labour Party is imploding

I don't believe what the PLP is doing here. I may not rate Corbyn but to start this ludicrous infighting at such a pivotal time in British History is insane. If we had a credible alternative as leader I'd go with him/her in a heartbeat as I think Corbyn is out of touch with the modern world but there isn't one and he at least has the courage of his convictions. I respect Corbyn even though I disagree with him on many issues but I can't really say the same of any of the others. I firmly believe Labour needs to position itself on the centre-left rather than going out and out socialist as it was in the 60's and 70's but there isn't a genuine centrist out there right now, just a bunch of platitude spouting self-serving idiots who will say anything that they think will bag a few more votes.

I've got to be honest and say I feel scared for the future of the party itself and can see a split similar to the 'Gang of Four' that led to the SDP and fourteen more years in opposition. The PLP needs to stop thinking about replacing the leader and start concentrating on policy, most especially how to start undoing the catastrophic damage done by the Tories over the last six and a bit years. If we are to have any hope of winning in 2020 we need to be working on a viable platform now.

Great comment that LPP.

I don't have a problem with a Labour leader having left wing policies and nor do I see this as necessarily being unpopular with the electorate. Personally I would welcome some left wing policies (mansion tax, genuine attempts to stop tax evasion, etc).

But Corbyn is not a leader. Most Labour MPs are not prepared to serve under him. Some policies he advocates are either insane (keep Trident submarines but don't put missiles in them) or guaranteed to lose elections (totally unrestricted immigration).

So he should do the decent thing and step down rather than destroy the Labour party. As Dirty Harry said "A man should know his limitations".

i agree with xmiles, i have nothing against Corbyn but he is seen as being very left wing by most of middle England and he would never get elected no matter what the party activists think

It's a really tricky position inasmuch that Ed Miliband's manifesto hasn't been replaced yet as far as I'm aware, so whilst Jezza may talk in general terms about socialist principles, none of that has been interpreted into policy other than single issue responses, so it begs the question who is going to do what.

Seems like there is about to be another election where the voters don't know what they're voting for other than sweeping concepts and personalities.

And if they take the view that personality is important in trying to win an election - which it obviously is seeing as British people seem incapable of looking past image - Labour are f****d as Jezza seems to think (or perhaps hopes) that image doesn't matter and there are no candidates with mass market appeal.

Left wing traditionalists may want to look away from the rest of this post as it praises Beelzebub (aka Tony Blair) and the Chief Imp (aka John Prescott aka Two Jags aka The Bull From Hull).

Blair in particular had charisma but he was also incredibly smart. He knew the late great John Smith had modernised the Labour movement without giving up the core beliefs that founded the Labour party and he quickly realised he could carry on going down that road with the right words and the right Deputy Leader. John Presott was a perfect foil for Blair, a man who had done real work in the real world and was working class all the way down to the tassels on his hush puppies. Between them they were able to move Labour away from losing propositions like Clause IV without giving up things like the NHS, Education and help for working class families. More importantly they were able to carry the party AND the country with them because everyone could see a benefit to themselves be it a CEO of a major multi-national or an office clerk on a minimum wage. Blair and Prescott reassured business that they weren't out to form a communist collective while ensuring the workers didn't feel they were going to be ignored or oppressed. In all truth the 'wrecker' in the mix was actually Gordon Brown who as Chancellor prevented Blair and Prescott from carrying out a lot of policies that would have benefitted pretty much everybody. Blair was the communicator, the man who sold the ideas with style and Prescott was the man who could walk into a local labour club and convince the members that they were still vital to Labour and would be looked after. It will be a long time before we see a team like that in charge of Labour or perhaps any political party again.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Left wing traditionalists may want to look away from the rest of this post as it praises Beelzebub (aka Tony Blair) and the Chief Imp (aka John Prescott aka Two Jags aka The Bull From Hull).

Blair in particular had charisma but he was also incredibly smart. He knew the late great John Smith had modernised the Labour movement without giving up the core beliefs that founded the Labour party and he quickly realised he could carry on going down that road with the right words and the right Deputy Leader. John Presott was a perfect foil for Blair, a man who had done real work in the real world and was working class all the way down to the tassels on his hush puppies. Between them they were able to move Labour away from losing propositions like Clause IV without giving up things like the NHS, Education and help for working class families. More importantly they were able to carry the party AND the country with them because everyone could see a benefit to themselves be it a CEO of a major multi-national or an office clerk on a minimum wage. Blair and Prescott reassured business that they weren't out to form a communist collective while ensuring the workers didn't feel they were going to be ignored or oppressed. In all truth the 'wrecker' in the mix was actually Gordon Brown who as Chancellor prevented Blair and Prescott from carrying out a lot of policies that would have benefitted pretty much everybody. Blair was the communicator, the man who sold the ideas with style and Prescott was the man who could walk into a local labour club and convince the members that they were still vital to Labour and would be looked after. It will be a long time before we see a team like that in charge of Labour or perhaps any political party again.

Absolutely correct about Brown. He is a very odd person and was a poor Chancellor making many very bad decisions (remember his "light touch" supervision of the banks or PFI?). He constantly obstructed Blair and it is sad that Blair lacked the balls to sack him.

Blair was important and charismatic but he never achieved half as much as he promised or many of us hoped he would.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:I don't believe what the PLP is doing here. I may not rate Corbyn but to start this ludicrous infighting at such a pivotal time in British History is insane. If we had a credible alternative as leader I'd go with him/her in a heartbeat as I think Corbyn is out of touch with the modern world but there isn't one and he at least has the courage of his convictions. I respect Corbyn even though I disagree with him on many issues but I can't really say the same of any of the others. I firmly believe Labour needs to position itself on the centre-left rather than going out and out socialist as it was in the 60's and 70's but there isn't a genuine centrist out there right now, just a bunch of platitude spouting self-serving idiots who will say anything that they think will bag a few more votes.

I've got to be honest and say I feel scared for the future of the party itself and can see a split similar to the 'Gang of Four' that led to the SDP and fourteen more years in opposition. The PLP needs to stop thinking about replacing the leader and start concentrating on policy, most especially how to start undoing the catastrophic damage done by the Tories over the last six and a bit years. If we are to have any hope of winning in 2020 we need to be working on a viable platform now.

The Labour Party went into a steady decline  after they chose Ed Miliband over his brother David, who, in my opinion, was a much better candidate.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:I don't believe what the PLP is doing here. I may not rate Corbyn but to start this ludicrous infighting at such a pivotal time in British History is insane. If we had a credible alternative as leader I'd go with him/her in a heartbeat as I think Corbyn is out of touch with the modern world but there isn't one and he at least has the courage of his convictions. I respect Corbyn even though I disagree with him on many issues but I can't really say the same of any of the others. I firmly believe Labour needs to position itself on the centre-left rather than going out and out socialist as it was in the 60's and 70's but there isn't a genuine centrist out there right now, just a bunch of platitude spouting self-serving idiots who will say anything that they think will bag a few more votes.

I've got to be honest and say I feel scared for the future of the party itself and can see a split similar to the 'Gang of Four' that led to the SDP and fourteen more years in opposition. The PLP needs to stop thinking about replacing the leader and start concentrating on policy, most especially how to start undoing the catastrophic damage done by the Tories over the last six and a bit years. If we are to have any hope of winning in 2020 we need to be working on a viable platform now.

The Labour Party went into a steady decline  after they chose Ed Miliband over his brother David, who, in my opinion, was a much better candidate.

I totally agree David would have been a far better leader but for me the decline started when Blair left office and Brown found out the hard way that being PM isn't a cushy number after all. People actually hold you responsible for things and blame you when the government screws up instead of the actual minister in charge of the department they're mad about. As Chancellor Brown was able to hide behind Blair but he never seemed to grasp that when he got the "Big Chair" he'd be out there on his own. Personally I think Brown and his cronies did more damage to Labour in three years than anyone in the party's history. They back stabbed the most popular Labour leader ever and then cried in their beer when they found out people actually expected them to do something.

I have never understood why Brown is not usually held responsible for the damage he caused. Probably something to do with him being seen as "working class" and Blair clearly not "working class".

Even his alleged successes like tax credits are really massive mistakes. Tax credits cost far more than anyone expected and work by subsidising low pay. The answer is to do what Osborne did i.e. increase the minimum wage.

Eagle pulls out of leadership race.

boltonbonce wrote:Eagle pulls out of leadership race.

Good. She was never very convincing as a future leader but kudos to her for being brave enough to put her head above the parapet.

boltonbonce wrote:Eagle pulls out of leadership race.

How totally bizarre. Watching her on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday one would never have guessed. Was it Clause 28?

They know the only way to topple Corbyn is by not splitting the vote. Not sure it will make much difference to be fair.

Smith got more votes than Eagle so she has done the honourable thing and stood down. Fair enough.

Couldn't stand Eagle to be honest, she (and some of her supporters) seemed to think being a woman meant she should be elected. I'd love to see Labour have a female leader but you don't just appoint one for the sake of it!

bwfc1874 wrote:Couldn't stand Eagle to be honest, she (and some of her supporters) seemed to think being a woman meant she should be elected. I'd love to see Labour have a female leader but you don't just appoint one for the sake of it!

100% agree!

Corbyn's supporters come across as not much different to radicalised Muslims,  dreamers!?!
Following a bloke with teenage ideals in a pensioners body.

Go on then SK, expand a bit on that.

Don't need to, a blind man on a galloping horse can see it if you have any dealings with them.
I wonder where the brick throwing training camp is?