Bolton 2-2 Nottingham Forest.

y2johnny wrote:Stupid line up for me. Either play two wingers or none. Not just one. Fucking stupid. One of spearing or medo should be benched fot hall or feeney. Then it would be a diamond with danns heading it. But what stupid arse formation can he play with one fucking winger. Absolute twat.

rant over

If you mean Lee I don't think he can be counted as a winger in DFs system - there was a lot of talk about him playing inside.
The "wingers" in DFs formation certainly don't appear to be slipping back to join the defensive mids to form a mid 4 when out of possession in this system so it doesn't look like a winger role.

I think it's a crap line up for this game as well. I can see what Dougie wants to do, but against Forest this lot are unlikely to be able to get far enough up the pitch to dominate. If we're playing two defensive mids we need to control possession and I can't see it happening so it's very risky.

However you spin it, there's nowhere near enough width in that team and I agree with Johnny that we will be exposed down the flanks again today.

Lusty I already said I don't personally advocate booing during the game. 

I understand why it happens though and can sympathise with those who do it. 

Of course football is about confidence but it's also true that the players should have the mental strength to accept that when they play very badly the fans aren't going to be happy about it and in this era of players on thousands of pounds per week it's even more true. 

And as to your comment linking booing the manager to the players I'd say you're wrong. Simply because most of the players are aware that the fans know they have no control over the tactics and team selections. Yes, some players will be booed if they play badly enough but as a general rule of thumb the players are spared most of the opprobrium that falls on the manager's head when things are going very badly. 

I for one would say that for any fan to say "You have to sit there like a good little boy and not say how unhappy you are because it's disloyal" is sheerest idiocy. Pretending all is well and continuing to cheer a team that doesn't deserve it is frankly MORE disloyal than booing. If we DON'T speak up then no one with authority will see a need to change things and the damage our club is undergoing now will only get worse. 

I don't LIKE to boo my own team's manager or players at all but when they're playing ineptly and the manager is clearly incompetent then I feel it's my DUTY to ensure the club knows how I feel. I won't do it while play is going on but you'd better believe I'll make my voice heard at HT and FT because I don't see any justifiable reason to remain silent. By the same token if we've played well then I'll be the first to credit the manager and players for that and cheer my head off.

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Appealing to the concept of it being patronising (sit there like a good little boy) does not make it right although it will obviously stir some people's emotion. Nobody is saying that. Nor are they saying that you HAVE to keep quiet or pretend anything.
I'm saying I don't think it helps to do it during the game when the players need confidence. That's my opinion. 

So stop trying to make it sound like a police state beating down on the poor fans by twisting my words and inventing stuff.

Breadman wrote:However you spin it, there's nowhere near enough width in that team and I agree with Johnny that we will be exposed down the flanks again today.

It's not really about spinning anything, the point of the formation is that you pack the center, Spearing can hold and Lee can play between the lines you don't get that with a flat 4.

As 4-2-3-1 is apparently stupid, and now a diamond in midfield is, is the only acceptable formation a traditional 442 with two wingers?

Last 20 mins or so of the match from Chatbox -

[16:26:21] wanderlust : Good effort, but no..

[16:26:24] terenceanne joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:26 pm.

[16:26:29] MartinBWFC : What have I missed ladies?.

[16:26:50] Breadman : We've gone on tha attack, Martin. Pratley's on.....

[16:27:09] MartinBWFC : Oh deep joy.

[16:27:17] Spillthebeans joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:27 pm.

[16:27:17] wanderlust : Think Medo was supposed to be more forward thinking in the 442 hence comms thinking prat = like for like.

[16:27:25] @ Biggie : trotter next.

[16:27:34] wanderlust : which is bollocks of course.

[16:28:05] Breadman : Is he taking the piss?.

[16:28:22] sean892635 has been disconnected on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:28 pm (session timeout).

[16:28:23] wanderlust : Stubborn..

[16:28:41] Sluffy joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:28 pm.

[16:28:41] wanderlust : Stupidly stubborn IMO.

[16:28:46] Breadman : Fucking idiot........

[16:28:46] MartinBWFC : Fucking stupid move that.

[16:28:57] @ karlypants : Clueless bloody freedman.

[16:29:18] wanderlust : If we don't concede it will be a masterstroke.

[16:29:23] luckyPeterpiper : danns off for trotter? Is this guy completely insane?.

[16:29:24] wanderlust : But we will....

[16:29:55] Breadman : We'll probably lose this now but with a bit of imagination and a couple of attacking subs, this game would have been there for the taking. He's playing for the draw.....

[16:30:20] luckyPeterpiper : Oh God, Pratley and Trotter on together, Spearing in a red ruddy haze. Dougie does it again .

[16:30:22] MartinBWFC : Freedman playing for a draw, never..

[16:30:45] bwfc1874 : I'd love to know how many fouls Pratley gives away a season.

[16:30:47] wanderlust : Is there where we see "the best of Liam Trotter"? Ain't seen it yet..

[16:30:49] bwfc1874 : it's a joke.

[16:30:58] Breadman : Too many..

[16:31:01] wanderlust : Pratley is too slow.

[16:31:13] sean892635 joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:31 pm.

[16:31:14] bwfc1874 : and clumsy.

[16:31:29] wanderlust : and late.

[16:31:40] Breadman : and shit..

[16:31:54] wanderlust : and popular..

[16:32:02] wanderlust : Not that last one.

[16:32:03] luckyPeterpiper : stop being so nice to Pratley. He's MUCH worse than you think.

[16:32:41] MartinBWFC : I honestly think we have good players, but good players being confused by Freedmans apparent scientology..

[16:32:41] luckyPeterpiper : DF has likely thrown the game away and I doubt we'll even get a point now.

[16:33:23] Breadman : Far too narrow and you called that as well before a ball had been kicked, Lusty..

[16:33:47] MartinBWFC : Comms know far more than that clueless fooker.

[16:35:27] wanderlust : He believes in his system and is is too narrow but he could easily tweak it - if he wasn't so damned stubborn.

[16:35:30] luckyPeterpiper : I just wish DF would wake up and see the same thing everyone else does. Sorry guys but this just reinforces my opinion that he has to go,..

[16:35:35] MartinBWFC : nailed on Forest goal coming.

[16:36:15] luckyPeterpiper : I know we were playing better but his subs are clearly the wrong ones and he's chucked away every good thing we did in the first hour.

[16:36:37] MartinBWFC : Freedman is definitely set up for the draw now.

[16:37:07] Breadman : 12,500 Bolton fans there. How many season tickets did we sell?.

[16:37:24] wanderlust : Davies will just be a passenger ATM. Time to get him off and put pace on up front..

[16:37:46] wanderlust : We still have a sub.

[16:37:46] luckyPeterpiper : Can't see why though Martin. We were matching them all over the park and probably a bit better than them until he did his tinkering..

[16:37:47] MartinBWFC : Why oh why do we not go for the win? Freedman just doesnt know how to go at teams.

[16:37:52] @ Sluffy : Freedman v Coyle in my next Worst Manager comp -that should be fun!.

[16:38:12] Breadman : I'm voting for Megson..

[16:38:26] Spanish Trotter joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:38 pm.

[16:38:26] rogercpc joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:38 pm.

[16:38:34] @ Sluffy : Dont you start as well!.

[16:38:46] luckyPeterpiper : Freedman all day long sluffy. Coyle was U/S but Freedman is making me wonder where the Samaritan's number is .

[16:38:48] Breadman : .

[16:38:58] MartinBWFC : Fucking hell sluffy thats like choosing Hitler v Bin Laden..

[16:39:02] wanderlust : pressing at last.

[16:39:11] @ karlypants : .

[16:39:11] Really?! joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:39 pm.

[16:39:14] wanderlust : Shit. Cavies you wanker.

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[16:39:36] Breadman : Hitler Vs Bin Laden...? Megson all day..

[16:39:37] @ Sluffy : Hell Really - do you need a link?.

[16:40:11] wanderlust : Should have won it right there.

[16:40:17] @ Sluffy : Ball from Pratley is a stinker!!!.

[16:40:46] @ Sluffy : Will we hold out?.

[16:40:49] Breadman : Why's he pulled Mason deeper? Stupid move.....

[16:40:52] luckyPeterpiper : no.

[16:40:55] Chairmanda joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:40 pm.

[16:41:00] MartinBWFC : Sounds like the fans are getting a little frustrated.

[16:41:22] luckyPeterpiper : Wonder why Martin? Could it be because Dougie has done it again?.

[16:41:25] terenceanne has been disconnected on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:41 pm (session timeout).

[16:41:26] @ Sluffy : He short on midfield players out there - thats why..

[16:41:31] wanderlust : Don't say "no" LPP. Have they scored?.

[16:41:44] @ Sluffy : He needs nine in there I think..

[16:41:55] luckyPeterpiper : No lusty they haven't but imo it's a matter of time..

[16:42:07] Breadman : I was just working out if you were joking, Sluff.....

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[16:42:26] Biggie has been disconnected on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:42 pm (session timeout).

[16:42:46] wanderlust : "No" isn't good. Could you write "Yes" occasionally?.

[16:43:02] luckyPeterpiper : Yes but not when asked if we can hold out.

[16:43:04] MartinBWFC : Freedmans tactics have cost us here, with a little more adventure Forest were there for the taking..

[16:43:05] bwfc1874 : You're such a positive person aren't you LPP.

[16:43:21] @ Sluffy : The teams unbalanced - aas been since Coyle's time - can only play with whar hes got but he certainly dosent help himself..

[16:43:26] luckyPeterpiper : Don't forget we have Pratley and Trotter on together..

[16:43:44] wanderlust : Hang on Martin - we're having a go and Cavies should have scored.

[16:43:55] bwfc1874 : Pratley is having a laugh.

[16:44:11] bwfc1874 : Feel a bit like Tigermin but this is just getting ridiculous.

[16:44:13] wanderlust : Pratley is so slow in the tackle.

[16:44:19] MartinBWFC : FFS P ratley, just what does he bring to the party..

[16:44:41] bwfc1874 : Agree Martin, we desperately need to get shot of him.

[16:44:44] luckyPeterpiper : 1874 I just think DF has shot himself in the foot with his subs. Until he made them we were doing well and why he made the changes he did baffles me.

[16:45:11] MartinBWFC : baffles everybody pedro.

[16:45:18] Breadman : Because he was happy to settle for a draw with half an hour to go, Pete..

[16:45:26] wanderlust : And yet we've been closest to scoring since Trotter and Pratley came on....

[16:45:51] MartinBWFC : coming close sadly doesnt count.

[16:45:59] bwfc1874 : Breadman's got it, he naturally thinks we're going to implode.

[16:46:12] bwfc1874 : so he sures things up instead of 'going for it'.

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[16:46:14] wanderlust : I'd have preferred to replace Davies with fresh legs.

[16:46:38] sean892635 joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:46 pm.

[16:47:09] Spillthebeans joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:47 pm.

[16:47:22] wanderlust : Worrying times now..

[16:47:39] bwfc1874 : Yep sounds tense.

[16:47:49] bwfc1874 : Amazed Cravies has lasted so long!.

[16:48:04] luckyPeterpiper : I agree lusty but would Beckford have made a difference when he narrrowed the midfield and dropped us all back.

[16:48:07] wanderlust : Missed a sitter though..

[16:48:40] wanderlust : I think so LPP. Threat of pace prevents them pushing up..

[16:49:39] wanderlust : With our luck we'll concede at the death..

[16:49:59] Breadman : You make your own luck....

[16:50:01] luckyPeterpiper : You might be right but Beckford isn't the sort of man you can lump it up to in the way Cravies can be..

[16:50:18] MartinBWFC : nothing to do with luck lusty, more down to Freedmans stupidity.

[16:50:23] luckyPeterpiper : I'm biting what's left of my fingernails here.

[16:50:56] luckyPeterpiper : Before the game I'd have settled for a point so I won't be upset if it finishes 2-2.

[16:51:39] wanderlust : I predicted a narrow loss so if we hang on it will be an improvement.

[16:51:47] @ karlypants : I agree with that Peter .

[16:52:10] MartinBWFC : more of the same, same story as last season, just cannot force our hand in home games, just fuck off Freedman..

[16:52:12] Breadman : I predicted 4-0 to Forest, so I'm a genius!.

[16:52:33] luckyPeterpiper : Positives: Improved performance overall. Negatives, DF subs and tinkering again,.

[16:52:36] wanderlust : Re Beckford: Can't lump it to him but you can play it into space behind the defenders if they push on.

[16:52:53] @ karlypants : FT 2-2.

[16:53:07] @ karlypants : Not a bad point to be fair.

[16:53:13] luckyPeterpiper : True lusty but he isn't a player who will fight to win the ball and take it on].

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[16:53:29] wanderlust : Better result than anticipated. Now let's buy another striker that is capable of taking the chances.

[16:53:31] luckyPeterpiper : 2-2 decent enough result and a generally better performance..

[16:53:34] Spanish Trotter joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:53 pm.

[16:53:41] MartinBWFC : Underwhelmed.

[16:53:43] bwfc1874 : Good point, shame not to hold on to either lead! Spearing's having a laugh really.

[16:53:46] Breadman : Could have taken all three if we'd showed a bit more ambition with the subs. Freedman's fault..

[16:54:00] bwfc1874 : COuld have lost the game too.

[16:54:08] bwfc1874 : Difficult to say isnt it.

[16:54:12] Really?! has been disconnected on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:54 pm (session timeout).

[16:54:15] Breadman : Agreed..

[16:54:20] wanderlust : Didn't lose though. Says a lot about Dougie's siege mentality.

[16:54:20] Spanish Trotter has logged off the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:54 pm.

[16:54:44] MartinBWFC : If Freedman would just let these players loose, we would be strong enough to take on any team in this league.

[16:55:17] bwfc1874 : Debatable.

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[16:55:56] MartinBWFC : No need to try to be clever, football is far simpler than Freedman thinks it is..

[16:56:02] luckyPeterpiper : Overall it's a point I never expected. DF made his usual baffling subs and possibly cost us 2 points doing it but since I predicted the loss I'll settle for the draw with a slightly strained smile.

[16:57:34] bwfc1874 : Nothing to do with being clever, but look at Forest today they have some excellent players. I had no idea they'd signed Antonio from Forest, and the lad from Peterboro up front clearly has a lot about him.

[16:57:45] MartinBWFC : Plus if he is happy to take just 1 point from home games, you have to question his overall ambition..

[16:57:54] bwfc1874 : Plus Lansbury, Patterson, Burke in the squad.

[16:57:59] bwfc1874 : we're miles away from that.

[16:58:14] bwfc1874 : He's over cautious that's for sure.

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[16:58:28] bwfc1874 : But I'd take that over the recklessness of Coyle.

[16:58:43] Breadman : and yet we matched them, so Martin's point stands..

[16:59:12] Sluffy joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:59 pm.

[16:59:29] luckyPeterpiper : Just in case anyone's interested England are currently 289-5. a lead of 141 over India in the cricket..

[16:59:56] bwfc1874 : How does that prove his point?.

[17:00:07] MartinBWFC : We more than matched them first half Bread, but as ever Freedman parks the bus, point gained in his eyes, rather than 2 lost in everybody elses eyes..

[17:00:12] Mr Magoo joined the chat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:00 pm.

[17:00:13] wanderlust : Assombalonga was great at Posh last year and I thought he would be a good buy even though he's short. But Forest paid £5million for him..

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[17:01:01] luckyPeterpiper : I think we played a lot better before the subs but in all honesty if someone had told me this morning that it would end 2-2 I'd have snatched their hand off taking it..

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[17:02:08] MartinBWFC : Thing is Freedman doesnt learn from his mistakes, he just keeps on making them.

[17:02:50] luckyPeterpiper : I know Martin but as long as he's here I don't think we can expect anything in the way of attack minded football even at home.

[17:03:29] MartinBWFC : Today was crying out for some width, we had Feeney on the bench, yet he chose Pratley and Trotter and went like for like.

[17:04:00] Breadman : Do we think that even if we sign this elusive second striker, that Freedman would do any different from today, ie settle for a draw after an hour? I don't. That's just how he thinks..

[17:04:58] MartinBWFC : And that is why with Freedman at the helm we will never be anything other than mid table also rans.

[17:06:12] luckyPeterpiper : I agree breaders. I don't see him changing no matter who he has in the squad.

[17:06:35] luckyPeterpiper : Anyway guys, gotta go and feed the little ones. See you all later..

[17:06:48] Breadman : WE are not Barcelona and never will be. To play containment football and win, you need real quality players in midfield and up front and we can't afford them. It's a flawed system for a club like ours to adopt..

For the home team BWFC were a fucking disgrace, same old bollocks especially second half!!!!

Missed the game today- stuck in Paris airport because of late flights- and in the air for most of the match so I couldn't sign on
Will someone sum it up for me- were we complete bollocks  or were there some good signs. Was the score a good reflection of the game?

Much improved performance as expected. Got a draw - not expected, so a bonus.
Pros: Having a striker that can take chances (Mason) has a huge effect. We score and the entire psychology of the game changes and puts us in the ascendancy.
Wheater - played well.
Cons: Having Cavies (missed a sitter) and Beckford (missed loads of sitters) as the other striker ensures that missed chances will inspire the opposition to come back at us.
The back 4. Better with Wheater but still a white knuckle ride.

Dougie: I understand his caution seeing as our defence has been battered in the last two outings but I suspect his substitutions were more about "sticking to his principles" than anything else. He clearly thinks that Trotter and Pratley have the drive to move us up the park - therefore pushing the others (Lee etc) into a more attacking role (equating to putting on a striker) - but it doesn't work often enough and looks very defensive, even though the idea is to attack.
Would it do him any harm to do the traditional obvious move a la Owen Coyle i.e. bring on another out and out attacker instead? Even if it was just to please the fans? I doubt it but the stubborn get won't do it because in his view it's risking losing a point. And TBF we didn't concede. But we'll never know if we could have grabbed the win. Doesn't seem too bothered about the PR does he?

Frantic first twenty minutes, end to end stuff, shit defending by both teams, 2-1 up and conceded a penalty from a daft lunge by spearing. Bogdan let it in through his legs, 2-2 half time.

Second half started with Forest in the ascendancy and it looked only a matter of time until they scored.

Half an hour to go and Doug decided to start making changes. Pratley on for Medo and then Trotter on for Danns. (Much groaning at this point.) Feeney went home for a good long think about his future, probably....

We go dead narrow and Mason is dragged back to shore up the midfield and told to stop making runs into their box. 

Not much then happens until Craig Davies misses our one and only chance of the second half spectacularly and is subbed in the 90th minute for Beckford.

Forest throw the kitchen sink at us for the last five minutes but we hold out.

Dumb fuck's subs were priceless, again!!!!

Thanks gentlemen- sounds like I missed a good 'un

I'd rather be at Charles de Gaulle than here, Rammy.....

Breadman wrote:I'd rather be at Charles de Gaulle than here, Rammy.....

No you wouldn't- it's full of French and they hate the Brits.....

Promising first half with the exception of Medo,Chungy back to his old self fully committed , good on the ball etc etc. Second half he brings Pratley on there ends the game,cheers Doug

I'd of taken a point before the game because I thought we'd curl up and let them kick us.

So, with UTD and Wigan losing its been a bloody good point considering . 

This is how I see it, Freedman obviously wants to win games, unfortunately I dont think he quite knows how to, its plain to see that we do have some good players who on the face of it could lead the team to a top half or better finish.

Now the problem... These good players are being utilised in an almost alienated way, they are neither good or clever enough to play the Real Madrid way, yet Freedman insists they are good enough for that style, if he just set them up as most Championship sides are set up i.e with width, a holding midfielder, and 2 strikers, I honestly think we would be a force in this league.

Football is not a science its far simpler than that, put round pegs in round holes Dougie, and you have a formula for success, but Freedman will never admit to his own failings, and as such will carry on regardless with his non sensical football ideologies, sadly until he is shown the door, mid table is best we can hope for.

Not as shit as I expected, but not as good as it should have been.

A better team than last week at Watford, but Lee again ahead of Feeney? Reading through the comments people seem to think Dougie is playing some sort of diamond, all I saw was a load of players who simply didn't understand the system they were supposed to be playing. We had no width yet Forest seemed to cut through the centre of our packed midfield with relative ease.

To be fair we matched Forest in the first half and could easily have gone in a goal in front. But second half Dougie bottled it AGAIN. Forest were definitely on top so he brought on fucking Pratley and Trotter which made absolutely zero difference. They are both shit. While Forest are good coming forward their defence had looked just as rocky as ours and we should have had Feeney and Beckford on at that point to give them something to think about.

I guess you could say a point is a decent result, but we won't win games being defensive all the time. It's utterly shameful the way Dougie bottles it whenever we are in with a shout of winning.

Lee was our best player today