Bolton Stand By Dougie Freedman.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

I hope it's as simple as the players not wanting to play for him and that's why they've been so poor so far, but somehow I don't think it will change much. Probably because we've been on this decline since Wembley.. and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

From what I've seen the players are going through the motions, whether that's because they don't like Dougie or are simply lazy overpaid twats is anyones guess.

All I know is that under a manager like Mick McCarthy or Sam Allardyce they'd have their arses kicked on a daily basis until they put the effort in.

I say "AMEN."  BSA would fry them for these performances.  One look would scare the bejeebies out of them.  Dougie's team... and they are not performing.

doffcocker wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Probably because we've been on this decline since Wembley.. and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I just don't believe that losing 5-0 to Stoke could leave a club in an irreparable mess for several years.

My mistake, I agree it was when Holden broke his leg, I didn't mean we'd been suffering every since because of Wembley, one bad day can't cause this mess.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:It depends whether you buy into that argument. 

We've obviously had some shit runs under DF but on the flip side some very good runs too. People will say that's just "luck" or "papering over the cracks."

always said though DF should be doing much better, clock is approaching midnight now. 

He obviously isn't a tactical genius though no one would say that.

I expect the club to stick with Dougie and I agree their patience must be wearing thin.

If people (like Martin, Nat and Bread)  think that the Board should sack him because of our results, position, performances and prospects (reasonable enough you'd think) then I think that's short-sighted.

For fans, results, position, performances and prospects are more or less the only things that are important - but the Board will judge Dougie on other criteria.- including:
Financial performance
Future Proofing
Availability of Alternatives
Quality of Alternatives
Cost of Contract buyout
Recruitment costs
Cashflow
Investment Strategy
Perceived impact of disruption

...and more.

All these variables will be on the Board's mind but they will become less important with each loss.

this all comes down to Dougie being great at maths again but not so great at managing a football club.
Yes the club have to take in to account his ability to bring the wage bill down but if we drop another division what happens then? If that makes me short sighted then i can live with it

I also wish that people would stop saying that these are his players that should want to play for him. These players came to Bolton to play football as most were bench warmers. FFS they'd have come to us if Megson was in charge if it put them nearer to a regular game. The hilarious thing is they were probably given the impression they would be playing regularly and realised that DF has bullshitted them now they are part of his crap rotation system.

wanderlust wrote:

If people (like Martin, Nat and Bread)  think that the Board should sack him because of our results, position, performances and prospects (reasonable enough you'd think) then I think that's short-sighted.

For fans, results, position, performances and prospects are more or less the only things that are important - but the Board will judge Dougie on other criteria.- including:
Financial performance
Future Proofing
Availability of Alternatives
Quality of Alternatives
Cost of Contract buyout
Recruitment costs
Cashflow
Investment Strategy
Perceived impact of disruption

...and more.

All these variables will be on the Board's mind but they will become less important with each loss.

You try to be so clever wanderlust, but you talk bollocks. I'll bet you anything if we lose our next two home games he will be sacked - none of the reasons you claim interest the board will have changed, only results. And that is what gets managers sacked.

Any fool can move players on when they come to the end of their contract. And any fool can buy shit players on lower wages.

You moron.

Financial performance - Unless DF signs the cheques, this is not one of his KPI's.

Future Proofing - Against what? Can't see DF leaving much of a legacy behind.

Availability of Alternatives - Shouldn't stop them firing him, there must be someone out there.

Quality of Alternatives - See above.

Cost of Contract buyout - Necessary evil, unavoidable and may work out less of a financial loss than retaining him until he gets us relegated.


Recruitment costs - See above.

Cashflow - If we can't divert enough funds to get rid, we might as well shut up shop now.

Investment Strategy - Don't understand this point.

Perceived impact of disruption - Who on? The players who are so obviously busting a gut to perform for DF.....? Or the fans who are deserting the Macron in their droves.....?

Neil Lennon is currently looking for work.

Breadman wrote:Financial performance - Unless DF signs the cheques, this is not one of his KPI's.

Future Proofing - Against what? Can't see DF leaving much of a legacy behind.

Availability of Alternatives - Shouldn't stop them firing him, there must be someone out there.

Quality of Alternatives - See above.

Cost of Contract buyout - Necessary evil, unavoidable and may work out less of a financial loss than retaining him until he gets us relegated.


Recruitment costs - See above.

Cashflow - If we can't divert enough funds to get rid, we might as well shut up shop now.

Investment Strategy - Don't understand this point.

Perceived impact of disruption - Who on? The players who are so obviously busting a gut to perform for DF.....? Or the fans who are deserting the Macron in their droves.....?

You and Nat have fallen into the trap of thinking that by listing the criteria a Board would use to measure performance by I am in some way suggesting that he has performed well by these criteria - or more accurately that I am suggesting that the Board think he has performed well by these criteria.

Financial performance may not be his KPI in it's entirety but "being complicit in a financial strategy that leads to improved financial performance" may well be. Some people call this doing as he's told and not complaining when he isn't given money.

I agree with Nat that he will probably get fired if we keep losing games. What I'm saying is that it's likely the Board will give him every chance to put it right and will only reluctantly fire him if they think his position is untenable. Note I said if they think his position is untenable.

I suspect the Board is weak and have to some extent painted themselves into a corner - by not backing him to close some of the smaller deals for strikers that looked like good deals on paper (as the price went up later) they are concerned that they'll have to sack him for not having the quality on the pitch to finish the chances in a game we dominated.

You clearly have opinions about how Dougie has performed against these criteria but as I'm trying to point out  - that's irrelevant in this context.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
You try to be so clever wanderlust

That's got to be the 10th time you've tried to have a go at my "intelligence" so it's becoming increasingly obvious that you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about it. Relax. I do have a high IQ, but I can't help that and there's certainly no need for you to be jealous of me for it......especially when there's my gorgeous looks, rippling muscular body and enormous penis for you to be jealous about.

It was quite clear from your original post that you were postulating as to how you thought the board may or may not be assessing DF's performance and I never for one moment interpreted any of your comments as any sort of endorsement of his tenure on your part.

(I can read, you know....... )

The point I was trying to make was that if they don't understand the potential risks of retaining his services as "football" manager for much longer, ie the bloke directly responsible for what goes on on the pitch and who clearly isn't very good at it, all the other stuff you cite will be rendered academic, as we will be playing in the Third Division next season and I don't think they have ever included that scenario in any of their strategy meetings.......

Breadman wrote:It was quite clear from your original post that you were postulating as to how you thought the board may or may not be assessing DF's performance and I never for one moment interpreted any of your comments as any sort of endorsement of his tenure on your part.

(I can read, you know....... )

The point I was trying to make was that if they don't understand the potential risks of retaining his services as "football" manager for much longer, ie the bloke directly responsible for what goes on on the pitch and who clearly isn't very good at it, all the other stuff you cite will be rendered academic, as we will be playing in the Third Division next season and I don't think they have ever included that scenario in any of their strategy meetings.......

Apologies for part 1

Relegation isn't in the plan but I suspect that the manner of the defeat to Leeds would tell them that with a little tweaking we can start winning. Not a lot, but enough to survive.
And I suspect survival rather than success is a criterion - no more than that required.

Bloody hell Wander, are you happy with that ?

wanderlust wrote:
......especially when there's my gorgeous looks, rippling muscular body and enormous penis for you to be jealous about.

I have two of those already.

There's a "dog with two dicks" gag to be had here, but I'm not doing it......

Rumour is tonight that if we don't beat Rotherham on Tuesday him, Lawrence and Fleming are going to be put on gardening leave until their contracts run out next summer.

They will be replaced by Phillips, David Lee and Julian Darby until the new year.

Why wait 'til Tuesday?

Chances are we won't win and even if we do, it's not like it proves he knows what he's doing, it'll just be a scabby 1-0 win which he'll pretend is some sort of turning point.

But it won't be because we'll probably lose our next three games because of his obvious ineptitude and in the mean time, we'll be sliding ever closer to League One.

That's the only reason Gartside will consider getting rid.

Freedman's a "Yes Man" who is prepared to operate with a budget of precisely zero pounds and Gartside knows he can control him.

He was employed to get rid of the fabled "big earners" and bring in cheaper alternatives who were capable of keeping us in a mid-table position in the Championship.

As it turns out, he's brought in some useless shite and isn't skilled enough to mould them into a team that can play football.

And we're in trouble.

And it's only Gartside's arrogance and stubbornness that's kept him in a job thus far.

But even Gartside must be able to see that it's time to act now.

Breadman wrote:Why wait 'til Tuesday?

Chances are we won't win and even if we do, it's not like it proves he knows what he's doing, it'll just be a scabby 1-0 win which he'll pretend is some sort of turning point.

But it won't be because we'll probably lose our next three games because of his obvious ineptitude and in the mean time, we'll be sliding ever closer to League One.

That's the only reason Gartside will consider getting rid.

Freedman's a "Yes Man" who is prepared to operate with a budget of precisely zero pounds and Gartside knows he can control him.

He was employed to get rid of the fabled "big earners" and bring in cheaper alternatives who were capable of keeping us in a mid-table position in the Championship.

As it turns out, he's brought in some useless shite and isn't skilled enough to mould them into a team that can play football.

And we're in trouble.

And it's only Gartside's arrogance and stubbornness that's kept him in a job thus far.

But even Gartside must be able to see that it's time to act now.

spot on Breaders

Breaders, perfect except for the last sentence. 

Gartside WON'T see it. He was at Leeds with ED and they're clearly happy with what they saw there. 

My honest opinion is DF will get a new deal BEFORE Christmas.

If we lose to Rotherham he'll be on his way. Unfortunately a draw (obviously we won't win) will prolong the agony at least another week.