Just who are these players that 'won't' listen to Lennon?

Yes another goal let in at the death - the eleventh this season so far is a stat I've read (not checked it out though).

If that is true it is a shocking statistic.

Lennon as let it be known before yesterday that players are not buying into his philosophy and will not be here next season but I'm finding it increasingly hard to identify exactly who he is talking about?

Due to injury's, loans and suspensions the team personel change from game to game without many players being a fixture in the side - yet still the leaking of a late goal (1 in roughly every 3 games we've played in the league throughout the entire season so far (were there that many late goals under Duggie or is it just since Lennon?) continues).

The only two constants I can seem to find is Mills (the man made captain by Lennon) and Ream, the player constantly picked at left back by Lennon despite Moxey being available again, or sipping into the loan market like he has done so to strengthen the team in other areas.

So are Mills and Ream part of the problem or not?

You'd think if they where Lennon would not have made one of them his leader in the team and totally relied on the other to keep one position in the team going single handedly would you?

So if they aren't the problem who is?

The midfield perhaps?

Well Danns was out of the team, so it can't be him, Bannon was brought in by Lennon, Trotter has not been a regular starter, Vela maybe but if so at his age shouldn't someone more senior than him in the side be 'bossing' him into what he should be doing late in the game?

Or is it the forwards - being the first line of defence is attack.

Well again Lennon brought in Heskey, Eidur and ALF, and Davies as been out most of the season - so it can't be that?

Who is left? Feeney, wing back / winger - I can't see it being all his fault can you?

To my way of thinking, that if the problem persists and the variables keep changing - then the problem is not the variables you are looking at.

How can it be the players fault for the late goals if the players are more or less different every game?

I don't buy into this bullshit that many on other forums like to expound about players not having confidence or panicking when it comes to the last five minuets of the game. I've played enough real games with enough real people to know you don't all suddenly and collectively get stage fright once that extra time board is held aloft.

No, there are two more likely issues to address, the first being the stamina of the team in the closing moments of the game - where are the likes of Kevin Davies or Diouf, sheltering the ball near the opposition corner flags whilst the clock is ticking down.

No legs and fading strength from the Heskey's and Feeneys of the team - no outlet for the defence, to relef the pressure in the dieing monents.

The other is the managers belief in zonal marking.

Maybe it works ok in normal game time but maybe it doesn't when we are having the kitchen sink thrown at us and our midfield is forced back on to the defence because we haven't got an outlet ball to the forwards who are capable of running and retaining possession at the death of games.

It's easy to close games out.

You keep possession of the ball in the opponents half.

Simple.

It's not rocket science.



Views and opinions please.

Ream was mauled, knocked down and almost assaulted on the goal yesterday.  No foul called and no card on the play.  The bicycle kick was stupendous. 

Yet I would blame fatigue and as Nat would say, "lightweight" players who can't go 90 plus.
I do remember other last minute goals where we left a man open.  That is inexcusable and who do you blame?  Often we have, due to injury, changed the defense and mistakes happen when you don't know what your partner is doing.  At the same time, mental fatigue wears some players down.  I'm sure Lennon assesses each and every mistake and will try and correct that next season.  Today, we must stay above relegation.  This summer, we need to rebuild with players who have character, bulk, and fitness... and by the way, can play well.  Of course without money, Lennon will have to make tough decisions.  Perhaps this is left over from Dougie's regime, where players were never match fit.  In retrospect, Dougie may have been correct.  Of course, at the same time, Nat may be correct in saying Dougie picked "lightweight ponces," who don't fit into the league.

I think you have to analyze each and every mistake we made in the final few minutes to find a common denominator.  I'm sure Lennon is doing that as we speak.  For all of us, it has been a frustrating season, but thinking back to the dismal ten game start under Dougie, surviving relegation this season is a distinct plus.  When you add the direct correlation of players being injured under Lennon to the failures of the past few weeks, you see where an under monetized team can fall apart.  Losing Clayton, Clough, Pratley, Bogdan, Lonergan, as well as various defensive players, shows the lack of depth.  It also changes the parameters of who is playing in position or with a new partner.  Lennon found a winning way and unfortunate injuries waylaid the move upwards.  But I reiterate, had you asked us after 10 or 11 weeks (the 11th being without a manager) if we finished above relegation would we be happy, we all would have said yes.  So, let's be happy we will finish above relegation and look forward to some housecleaning and a full season under Lennon.

Look no further than the piss poor players both Coyle and Freedman brought to the club, im struggling to think of even one who is an average championship player! !!!

Trotter is one. He doesn't play with heart and is the biggest lightweight ponce I've ever seen. Look back at the goal Wigan scored yesterday. Great finish but look at Paddy and Mills when the ball passed them. From the angle of the video it looked more like they were getting in each other's way than attacking the ball. The defenders have been doing that far too much - they fail to attack the ball and give the opposition time and opportunity to punish us. That means I have to include the skipper, Matt Mills. As the captain and centre half, he should marshall the forces at crucial times and that isn't happening. There is precedent for binning the captain so I wouldn't be surprised.

I'd show Mills the door at the end of the season, he is utter shite!!,

Trotter, feeney, C Davies, Danns, hall and Moxey all need to go. Weak minded, little to no ability and too bothered about social media and tweeting about emmerdale. Dickheads.

A team consisting of those will always tread water in the Lower half of this league

We need to be realistic though, ditching all of the players above will leave the squad short and we still have fuck all money to go out overhaul the team completely. 

Keep Cravies, Feeney and Danns there's no issue with any of there commitment or effort just have them as options instead of first team regulars.

Im fairly confident that lennon could replace those players with free agents and improve us. There will be around a million to spend in the summer excluding the wages freed up by big earners like Andrews and mills.

Big overhaul needs to take place

Im pretty sure that Lennon will have a clear out at the end of the season, some of these players are just not up to it.

This is a recurring theme at Bolton.

We have a shit season or two > Everybody blames the manager > Manager gets sacked > New manager comes in > New manager has a great first 3-6 months > Everything turns to shit again > Everybody blames the players and says "can't wait for the summer when (insert new manager's name) can clear out all the deadwood and bring in his own players."

I'm a big fan of Lennon, but let's be fair, it was the general consensus before he came in that Freedman was the problem, not the players.

Obviously we'd all like to think Lennon will get rid of the weak links in the squad and bring in better players, but if he were to let us down, he wouldn't be the first.

doffcocker wrote:This is a recurring theme at Bolton.

We have a shit season or two > Everybody blames the manager > Manager gets sacked > New manager comes in > New manager has a great first 3-6 months > Everything turns to shit again > Everybody blames the players and says "can't wait for the summer when (insert new manager's name) can clear out all the deadwood and bring in his own players."

I'm a big fan of Lennon, but let's be fair, it was the general consensus before he came in that Freedman was the problem, not the players.

Obviously we'd all like to think Lennon will get rid of the weak links in the squad and bring in better players, but if he were to let us down, he wouldn't be the first.

DF was too old school Italian style defensive tactically - with the wrong players to do that job - but he was always only one of several problems at the club IMO despite "general consensus" and it's only to be expected that Neil or any other manager will have to deal with the same problems.

No idea who Neil's comments are directed at. Some of the troublemakers in DFs tenure like Eagles & Mears were obvious and he handled it by marginalising them but clearly Lennon is referring to players he's selected so it's interesting to see that he's criticising their inability to learn/follow instructions rather than their quality. Personally I think the two traits are linked.

doffcocker wrote:This is a recurring theme at Bolton.

We have a shit season or two > Everybody blames the manager > Manager gets sacked > New manager comes in > New manager has a great first 3-6 months > Everything turns to shit again > Everybody blames the players and says "can't wait for the summer when (insert new manager's name) can clear out all the deadwood and bring in his own players."

I'm a big fan of Lennon, but let's be fair, it was the general consensus before he came in that Freedman was the problem, not the players.

Obviously we'd all like to think Lennon will get rid of the weak links in the squad and bring in better players, but if he were to let us down, he wouldn't be the first.

No, Doogie & the players were poor was the consensus.  By some miracle Lennon has managed to extract good games out of people like Pratts and the like but the reality is you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Eventually the lack of quality in the squad has come back to light. So I believe we have a good manager now but he still has nothing much to work with.

terenceanne wrote:

doffcocker wrote:This is a recurring theme at Bolton.

We have a shit season or two > Everybody blames the manager > Manager gets sacked > New manager comes in > New manager has a great first 3-6 months > Everything turns to shit again > Everybody blames the players and says "can't wait for the summer when (insert new manager's name) can clear out all the deadwood and bring in his own players."

I'm a big fan of Lennon, but let's be fair, it was the general consensus before he came in that Freedman was the problem, not the players.

Obviously we'd all like to think Lennon will get rid of the weak links in the squad and bring in better players, but if he were to let us down, he wouldn't be the first.

No, Doogie & the players were poor was the consensus.  By some miracle Lennon has managed to extract good games out of people like Pratts and the like but the reality is you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Eventually the lack of quality in the squad has come back to light. So I believe we have a good manager now but he still has nothing much to work with.

I'd agree with that, but add that Coyle was just as culpable, and by the way, were we not just as Skint when BSA took over?????

I'm going to get a kicking from Whittam for saying this, but fuck it......

Nobody derided / criticised / blamed Freedman more than me on here and I stand by what I said at the time because I don't think he's a good manager but I am honestly scratching my head at the way people are queueing up to defend Lennon and say how it's all suddenly down to the players that we're shite.

Where does this sense that "Neil's a top bloke, a great motivator and a decent manager" come from?

The only experience he had before he came to us was managing Celtic during a period when their only real opposition weren't even in the same division as them.

Are we confusing the fact that he's an angry little ginger bastard with an obvious temper for some innate ability to manage football teams?

Yes, things perked up when he joined us and yes, we've got a lot of players injured but listening to some of the comments from people who went to the Wigan game, we were comprehensively outplayed and were lucky to get a point........by Wigan. Who are shit.

And then there's the late goals conceded thing.

This is a fairly recent development, so it must be something new that's driving it and, as such, should be something that Lennon's on top of.

But what's he said?

"It's the players' fault and they need to sort it but a lot of them simply aren't good enough."

I recall Freedman being roundly derided for saying something similar after the Fulham fiasco.

So why's Lennon any different?

"Fuck off, Freedman, it's your job to get them playing, it's what you get paid for!"

has somehow morphed into:

"Yeah, Neil's right - they're all shit!"

its a tricky one to call but you can bet that if Lennon gets his way things will look a lot different next season, there will be a big change in personnel i think. When he was appointed all i wanted out of this season was for us not to go down so barring a collapse of Devon Lock proportions he's managed it.

I do agree with Doffys point about it  being the same scenario every time we get a new manager but i'm hoping that Lennon with what i've seen of him and the way he goes about things, such as being willing to give youth a chance, he will prove to be the best manager we've had ever since Big Sam left.

Did dougie and coyle have an injury crisis as catastrophic to the season as lennon has had to deal with?  make shift teams and constant squad rotation.

i think under the circumstances (which have been a lot harder to deal with than his predecessors have had to) he has done very well.

Lets not right him off just yet

There's a big part of me that thinks he won't be here come August.

Seriously.

I can't remember exactly what he said, but not long after he joined us he made a comment along the lines of "I have an understanding that money will be made available to strengthen the squad."

And at the time I thought: "Naive fool!"

I honestly think Gartside sold him a pup when he blagged him into joining us, by making out that he'd have some proper cash to splurge, when we all know that we're completely skint and there ain't no wedge in the pot.

Meanwhile, it's job done for Gartside - we're staying up and the wage bill's been massively reduced, despite our two worst ever league starts under Freedman and he can say "not my fault" if Lennon sees his arse and walks off in a huff to another club because he's fucked off at being lied to about the cash.

(And let's not forget that the fans were pretty much universally demanding Gartside's head towards the end of Freedman's tenure and it all stopped overnight when he appointed Lennon. He's one shrewd politician, that bloke....)

I might even put a bet on Lennon walking in the Summer.

My bookie has taken a couple of bets on Lennon to Leicester,with Nigel Clough coming to us.

i'd be quite happy if we lost Lennon to get Nigel Pearson in as his replacement. Not sure about Clough, although he seems to do a good job with not much money to spend at his previous jobs.

boltonbonce wrote:My bookie has taken a couple of bets on Lennon to Leicester,with Nigel Clough coming to us.

I could see that.

It's another classic Gartside appointment:

A supposed "name" to appease the fans but when you scratch the surface, he's actually just another one with little or no track record of success.

Makes perfect sense and wouldn't surprise me.