Trust or no Trust

The last few weeks as a Bolton fan have been a whirlwind........no, scratch that, it's been more like a tornado.  Everything we hold dear about OUR club has been stretched, tarnished and put under the microscope for all to see.  How much of what we are seeing being credible, is actually debatable and causing riffs and fractions throughout a fan base that should really be working together at what seems our most dire situation in the modern era.

Eddie Davies' reluctance to pass on the baton and let someone else takeover seems to be the latest in a long line of "rumours" that has turned Saint Eddie into public enemy number 1.  4 Bidders or interested parties are "rumoured" to be interested in taking over yet no one has shown Eddie the colour of green.  For the one that seems to have done so, the goal posts have then been moved.

Will we see a light at the end of the tunnel in this ongoing saga or will it result in administration on the 22nd of Feb?

What role will the Supporters Trust play going forward?

Well let's look at this a bit more in depth and see whether we want a supporters trust in it's current guise or whether the BWFCST themselves have moved the goal posts.

These opinions are my own and in no way reflect the opinion of the site i am posting them on and all the information i am using is publicly available online at the time of writing.  Screenshots have been taking as evidence in case anybody see's their arse!

The Supporters Trust is a good thing, there you are, i will start on a positive.  In the modern game when the game is surrounded in so much controversy and secrecy surely it is a good thing to have someone who can approach or even sit on the board and represent the fans in a manner fitting that will have their best interests at heart.

So why is there such a split on our own?  Some 5000 people have already "pledged" to be a part of the trust.  Yet, some of those are regretting the decision.  The divide is quite clear on forums across the net and particularly on comments sections on some newspaper sites.

The founding members themselves have stirred mixed emotions too, with some well known in online circles and not doing much for the credibility for the trust.

Let's have a look at our New Chair person;

Richard Hurst (Chair of Steering Group)  Let me be the first to point out that whilst Hurst has a vast amount of experience that could be necessary to helping the trust get off on the right foot, who decided to actually put him in charge?  I've pledged my support and was never asked about his appointment.  Also with his close links with certain members of the current BWFC board, surely this should be seen as a conflict of interest.  If needs be, people should be allowed PUBLICLY to express their interest and then a vote to get things moving.  A vast number of emails and questions seemingly being ignored by the current set up is doing nothing for them amongst the rumour mills.

The others who are involved have also put themselves in the firing line.  One who bought a domain similar to that of a rivals website and pointed it to an adult website.  One who used a random image from the internet as his profile pic on the BWFCST website instead of his own.  Contradictions of their intentions at every twist and turn in this doomed and saddening story.

Like i said above, i have screenshots of said things, so not just conjecture.

Now speaking of intentions, my intention for joining the BWFCST is because i want US, the fans, to have a voice in the boardroom, to be able to know what is actually going on.  I DO NOT want the BWFCST to own or part own the club.  Why i hear you ask?  Well it is quite simple really.  We are a northern town vying with big clubs and have a limited fan base.  As fans we can't fund a club who has premier league ambitions, not without huge investment from local businesses who will then take the power away from the fans anyway.  The best we can hope for as a fan owned team would be league 1!  Would you seriously be happy with that?  If we don't have the ambition of being in the top league and playing with the best the country has to offer then what is the point?  Why limit ourselves to FA Trophies and celebrating making round 4 of the FA Cup like we have won the whole thing?

As fans we need to state what WE want from the supporters trust.  It is OUR trust after all and if the majority do or don't want to go down the road of being a fan owned club then that is what needs to happen.  A handful of people do not reflect the entire fan base, yet at the moment that is what is being publicised.

ALL decisions need to be put to the fans and if it takes longer for the ball to get rolling because of it then at least it will be done the right way with the fans best interests at heart.

Once in, Never out.

Bolton til we die!

It's a pretty fair assessment. I do think the trust would be a good thing in the right hands. Having a seat on the board to represent the fans could be good as long as that person had the backbone to stand up for the fans when it matters. 

I also agree that any takeover, partial or otherwise, just isn't the best option for a club like ours. It would seriously limit our potential and if the trust were only doing it as part of their power trip then that would be even worse. 

The idea of a trust is a good thing in theory, but it needs the right people involved, 100% transparancy and clear goals. Do they want a seat on the board, to own the club or just better communication with the supporters? 

Too much conflicting information at the moment, add to that the mistrust of the people involved and the deliberately vague info they're giving out and it's not a great start. 

One thing is for sure - they'll be getting no money off me until I can trust them 100%.

We all know Manda could do a job for them. How many applicants will have had actual experience of being on the inside of a football club? She could be invaluable on so many levels yet is completely overlooked. 

Maybe they're just putting the forms out there so people believe the fans have a chance to be involved but they're only selecting people they know and are on-board with exactly what they want, no questions asked. 

Just conjecture obviously but that's what happens when you don't have complete transparancy. It breeds mistrust.

I honestly feel like it is trying to do too much too soon and the original parties involved are mere puppets for something more. More people need to have the full facts in front of them otherwise people will just blindly follow the hype and before you know it is too late.

Im not anti bwfcst. I'm just not happy with the direction its taking and the people involved.

Sorry Johnny but this appears to be yet another article speculating on the intentions of the primary movers in the ST and what does it tell us that we don't already know? 
Well nothing as far as I can tell.

We've said it many, many times but in case anyone missed it, we don't know if there is any substance to the suspicions. 
That's why they are suspicions and not facts. We'll find out in the fullness of time.

And as much as we all admire Manda, I don't recall her detailing what she actually wrote to the ST for example did it begin with "I am the former Chair of Bath City FC and a lifelong Wanderers fan willing to lend my experience to the ST" or was that essential fact buried somewhere down the page so that it looked like any one of the thousands of letters of support they've had? Is there a chance that they didn't cotton on to the vital bit so that they don't know Manda from Adam? It might be an idea to get Manda's thoughts on whether she feels it was a straight rejection or whether there was a possibility they missed the point before building this up into a full blown conspiracy theory.

Yes there is a lot that stinks about the ST but we do have plenty of threads about it despite there being no news and despite it being very early in their formative process.

The Supporters Trust will be established whether or not people trust the people forming it or not.

Those people who have established it will be voted in to run it (if they choose to stand) whether you trust them or not - simply because the vast majority of those joining the ST know little if anything about them other than they are 'lifelong Bolton fans' and will vote for them because they set up the ST in the first place - so in their minds 'deserve to be elected' irrespective of any other criteria for voting for them.

It's blatantly obvious to my mind that those involved so far want ownership of the club and as soon as possible too.

It is quite feasible they will achieve it too if no one else comes up with the money to take the club over and invest in it.

If the ST did take over the club then it would have to operate within its means.  The majority of the funding would therefore be from gate receipts and merchandising - so what the club could afford to pay players wages would be limited and this in turn would limit the quality of player the club could attract.  Results will be determined by the quality of our team and people attending games (and therefore revenue stream) will fall more and more until just the hard core supporters remain.

If that is what people wish for the club then so be it.

I personally think that will be a transitional period in the clubs life as ultimately the ST ownership of the club will fail and they will be bought out by an entrepreneur who will once again take risks the ST could not and invest to make success.

It's going to be a long and bleak road until then.

Hopefully someone decent will buy the club and prevent this dismal scenario happening though.

wanderlust wrote:Sorry Johnny but this appears to be yet another article speculating on the intentions of the primary movers in the ST and what does it tell us that we don't already know? 
Well nothing as far as I can tell.

We've said it many, many times but in case anyone missed it, we don't know if there is any substance to the suspicions. 
That's why they are suspicions and not facts. We'll find out in the fullness of time.

And as much as we all admire Manda, I don't recall her detailing what she actually wrote to the ST for example did it begin with "I am the former Chair of Bath City FC and a lifelong Wanderers fan willing to lend my experience to the ST" or was that essential fact buried somewhere down the page so that it looked like any one of the thousands of letters of support they've had? Is there a chance that they didn't cotton on to the vital bit so that they don't know Manda from Adam? It might be an idea to get Manda's thoughts on whether she feels it was a straight rejection or whether there was a possibility they missed the point before building this up into a full blown conspiracy theory.

Yes there is a lot that stinks about the ST but we do have plenty of threads about it despite there being no news and despite it being very early in their formative process.

Agree with this, too early to make a clear judgement and far too many unsubstantiated rumours flying about. 

It's here, there's an appetite for it, so let's see how what happens and who gets elected to it before we decide anything.

wanderlust wrote:Sorry Johnny but this appears to be yet another article speculating on the intentions of the primary movers in the ST and what does it tell us that we don't already know? 
Well nothing as far as I can tell.

We've said it many, many times but in case anyone missed it, we don't know if there is any substance to the suspicions. 
That's why they are suspicions and not facts. We'll find out in the fullness of time.

And as much as we all admire Manda, I don't recall her detailing what she actually wrote to the ST for example did it begin with "I am the former Chair of Bath City FC and a lifelong Wanderers fan willing to lend my experience to the ST" or was that essential fact buried somewhere down the page so that it looked like any one of the thousands of letters of support they've had? Is there a chance that they didn't cotton on to the vital bit so that they don't know Manda from Adam? It might be an idea to get Manda's thoughts on whether she feels it was a straight rejection or whether there was a possibility they missed the point before building this up into a full blown conspiracy theory.

Yes there is a lot that stinks about the ST but we do have plenty of threads about it despite there being no news and despite it being very early in their formative process.

as stated

These opinions are my own and in no way reflect the opinion of the site i am posting them on and all the information i am using is publicly available online at the time of writing.  Screenshots have been taking as evidence in case anybody see's their arse!


the fact is they have put someone in without consulting anyone and it has back fired and people aren't happy.  this is just the beginning

bwfc1874 wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Sorry Johnny but this appears to be yet another article speculating on the intentions of the primary movers in the ST and what does it tell us that we don't already know? 
Well nothing as far as I can tell.

We've said it many, many times but in case anyone missed it, we don't know if there is any substance to the suspicions. 
That's why they are suspicions and not facts. We'll find out in the fullness of time.

And as much as we all admire Manda, I don't recall her detailing what she actually wrote to the ST for example did it begin with "I am the former Chair of Bath City FC and a lifelong Wanderers fan willing to lend my experience to the ST" or was that essential fact buried somewhere down the page so that it looked like any one of the thousands of letters of support they've had? Is there a chance that they didn't cotton on to the vital bit so that they don't know Manda from Adam? It might be an idea to get Manda's thoughts on whether she feels it was a straight rejection or whether there was a possibility they missed the point before building this up into a full blown conspiracy theory.

Yes there is a lot that stinks about the ST but we do have plenty of threads about it despite there being no news and despite it being very early in their formative process.

Agree with this, too early to make a clear judgement and far too many unsubstantiated rumours flying about. 

It's here, there's an appetite for it, so let's see how what happens and who gets elected to it before we decide anything.

the tides are already turning due to the fact they can't keep up with their own bullshit

Sluffy wrote:The Supporters Trust will be established whether or not people trust the people forming it or not.

...and then it will fade into the background until it disappears up it's own ass.

as i have been banned from yet another forum before even posting a message i just need to respond to this as i know it will be picked up on here.

I very much doubt they are fans, they're just doom merchants who'd love nothing better than it to fail...they don't really give a toss about bwfc...they'd take more pleasure out of saying 'I told you so' than they would from the club surviving..



So in response to the above i would just like to say that being gaurded about the ST and trying to have all the information before jumping in head first blindly makes me less of a fan!  Having a family and my own business and putting them first over setting up a trust before any spare time i may have makes me less of a fan.  spending what little i have spare when i can on the club which is obviously not as much as some makes me less of a fan?  Way to alienate people you fucking plank!

Which sites have banned you Johnny, I might post on there from now on.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Which sites have banned you Johnny, I might post on there from now on.

BA (obvs) and now another one.  i didn't even get approved by the admin as i used my same username as on here.  i was only registering so i could see the pics and links they were referring to in their posts.

y2johnny wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:Which sites have banned you Johnny, I might post on there from now on.

i didn't even get approved by the admin as i used my same username as on here.  i was only registering so i could see the pics and links they were referring to in their posts.

Yeah, the guys running Disabled Granny Porn.com can be funny sometimes.

I had the same trouble.

y2johnny wrote:The last few weeks as a Bolton fan have been a whirlwind........no, scratch that, it's been more like a tornado.  Everything we hold dear about OUR club has been stretched, tarnished and put under the microscope for all to see.  How much of what we are seeing being credible, is actually debatable and causing riffs and fractions throughout a fan base that should really be working together at what seems our most dire situation in the modern era.

Eddie Davies' reluctance to pass on the baton and let someone else takeover seems to be the latest in a long line of "rumours" that has turned Saint Eddie into public enemy number 1.  4 Bidders or interested parties are "rumoured" to be interested in taking over yet no one has shown Eddie the colour of green.  For the one that seems to have done so, the goal posts have then been moved.

Will we see a light at the end of the tunnel in this ongoing saga or will it result in administration on the 22nd of Feb?

What role will the Supporters Trust play going forward?

Well let's look at this a bit more in depth and see whether we want a supporters trust in it's current guise or whether the BWFCST themselves have moved the goal posts.

These opinions are my own and in no way reflect the opinion of the site i am posting them on and all the information i am using is publicly available online at the time of writing.  Screenshots have been taking as evidence in case anybody see's their arse!

The Supporters Trust is a good thing, there you are, i will start on a positive.  In the modern game when the game is surrounded in so much controversy and secrecy surely it is a good thing to have someone who can approach or even sit on the board and represent the fans in a manner fitting that will have their best interests at heart.

So why is there such a split on our own?  Some 5000 people have already "pledged" to be a part of the trust.  Yet, some of those are regretting the decision.  The divide is quite clear on forums across the net and particularly on comments sections on some newspaper sites.

The founding members themselves have stirred mixed emotions too, with some well known in online circles and not doing much for the credibility for the trust.

Let's have a look at our New Chair person;

Richard Hurst (Chair of Steering Group)  Let me be the first to point out that whilst Hurst has a vast amount of experience that could be necessary to helping the trust get off on the right foot, who decided to actually put him in charge?  I've pledged my support and was never asked about his appointment.  Also with his close links with certain members of the current BWFC board, surely this should be seen as a conflict of interest.  If needs be, people should be allowed PUBLICLY to express their interest and then a vote to get things moving.  A vast number of emails and questions seemingly being ignored by the current set up is doing nothing for them amongst the rumour mills.

The others who are involved have also put themselves in the firing line.  One who bought a domain similar to that of a rivals website and pointed it to an adult website.  One who used a random image from the internet as his profile pic on the BWFCST website instead of his own.  Contradictions of their intentions at every twist and turn in this doomed and saddening story.

Like i said above, i have screenshots of said things, so not just conjecture.

Now speaking of intentions, my intention for joining the BWFCST is because i want US, the fans, to have a voice in the boardroom, to be able to know what is actually going on.  I DO NOT want the BWFCST to own or part own the club.  Why i hear you ask?  Well it is quite simple really.  We are a northern town vying with big clubs and have a limited fan base.  As fans we can't fund a club who has premier league ambitions, not without huge investment from local businesses who will then take the power away from the fans anyway.  The best we can hope for as a fan owned team would be league 1!  Would you seriously be happy with that?  If we don't have the ambition of being in the top league and playing with the best the country has to offer then what is the point?  Why limit ourselves to FA Trophies and celebrating making round 4 of the FA Cup like we have won the whole thing?

As fans we need to state what WE want from the supporters trust.  It is OUR trust after all and if the majority do or don't want to go down the road of being a fan owned club then that is what needs to happen.  A handful of people do not reflect the entire fan base, yet at the moment that is what is being publicised.

ALL decisions need to be put to the fans and if it takes longer for the ball to get rolling because of it then at least it will be done the right way with the fans best interests at heart.

Once in, Never out.

Bolton til we die!

This is from Josh from the BWFC forum - don't know if he had this Forum in mind about being negative.



Please keep an open mind until you have read it


Ok Guys...I know I haven't been very forth coming on here re-The Supporters' Trust... but to be honest..I've been bang at it for the last 5 weeks and just not had much time to post... also been mindful about stuff coming out on here and me being accused of feeding the forum etc...which is why we've tried to distribute any updates and news around the numerous fansites and forums..
but after some of the malicious goings on of a certain person from a rival forum (the older posters will know who I'm talking about) fueling all the negativity towards the trust...(obviously they don't have enough visitor to their forum so have taken to the Bolton News to vent their pathetic grudge against me) I've decided to come out and fill you in on a cpl of facts...

Richard Hurst is a very prominent businessman in Bolton, he's been a Wanderers supporter all his life, as was his father and Grandfather before him...and through our association with bwfc I've known him for over 30yrs, infact I used to travel to away games with him during the Rioch/Todd yrs with a cpl of mutual friends...(So I'm not talking close friend or best mate here, just as a casual acquaintance) so when Chris Peacock said the trust had received an Expression of interest form from a 'Richard Hurst' (The Chairman if the Arena) I was more than happy to vouch for him...(even though I hadn't seen him for 20yrs) my exact word were...this man is the Ronaldo of the business world and we'd be absolutely crazy to pass up on his knowledge, contacts and business skills, (which by the way, come free of charge)

So Chris had a chat with him and was equally impressed, we then invited him in for a chat...I'm smiling now...because the weird thing is...we had to talk him into being the chairman as he didn't think he could devote the time to it... all chuffed with ourselves, we spoke to Supporters Direct and they agreed we'd pulled off top signing here... so we were caught a little off guard with the response from some of the fans today...

Of course Richard knows Phil Gartside... as do I, he will have dealt with hm too, as I have in the past... but to say they're best friends is absolutely shite and just made up... it never entered any of our minds that anyone would jump to this conclusion... why would it...?

The steering group is made up of people we feel can take the trust to the next level.... I know nothing about running a football club, the legal implications or the whys and wherefores of insolvency etc...TBH I don't even know how to run a supporters trust...haha....but as Brian Clough used to say..."you do what your good at young man"..."and I'll get somebody else to do the stuff your not good at"
which in a nut shell and with the help of Supporters Direct is what we're trying to do.. (get an fa cup winning team together filled with free transfers)

It's also been suggested that the club (more so Gartsides cronies) are engineering or working behind the scenes pulling the trust string...hahha now this really does make me laugh...
some of the older posters on here might recall we (Breezeblock, Chris Peacock, Andy Walton, Richard McCormack & Myself) tried to set up a BWFCST five years ago...
We were told in no uncertain terms by Phil Gartside himself, that a football club could never be run by a committee and this club wouldn't welcome a supporters trust...
so the twitter account and domain name we registered 5 years ago remained dormant until a couple of months ago when the arrival of Trevor Birch saw a resurgence of interest in a bwfcst...due to his dealing with the Pompey Trust...

Having Googled Mr Birch it became apparent that he sees the value of a supporters trust not only to the football club, but to the community...(this was reinforced by the Portsmouth Guys)..so yes...we have taken advantage of this by asking the club to donate their facilities etc (which no doubt wouldn't have been forthcoming had Mr Gartside still been here...infact I know they wouldn't) now that can be as suspicious as you want it to be...but I think people on here know me well enough to know I wouldn't put up with anything like that and you only have to look and listen to the Portsmouth chairman and directors...
whats that saying...? Proof is in the pudding




Some people still not got over me setting up this forum.... and still questioning my motives in doing so...6yrs on....
No motive...no agenda...just me being me...

Ive read it. He then goes on the next post to say anyone who is negative is an idiot and not a proper fan. The guy just oozes class

From the same thread

I very much doubt they are fans, they're just doom merchants who'd love nothing better than it to fail...they don't really give a toss about bwfc...they'd take more pleasure out of saying 'I told you so' than they would from the club surviving..

The guy is clueless, he's making no effort to unite Bolton supporters. He's clearly revelling in his 15 minutes of fame, getting pats on the back from the posters on his site (all 3 of them).

Instead of calling the people with reservations about the ST "doom merchants" he should be trying to bring them on board. He's clearly made enemies on other forums so he should just put his hands up, apologise, and act like a grown up.

How can someone so good at pissing people off do any good for BWFC in the long term?

Natasha Whittam wrote:
How can someone so good at pissing people off do any good for BWFC in the long term?

Sounds familiar

48 hours.