Brexit negotiations

T.R.O.Y wrote:Yes you’re so disinterested you brought it up and wrote 2,000 words on the topic. Just like you have no interest in politics, yet have an opinion on every political thread the site hosts.

Give it a rest Sluffy.

You do make me laugh at times!

One of the main problems with privatisation is the dishonesty involved. Privatised services are not automatically more efficient than their public sector equivalents if for no other reason than private companies are only motivated by profit and dividends. Look at the railways (higher fares, poorer performance, massive increase in subsidies and taxpayer bailouts when the companies choose) or water (zero competition, big profits, inadequate investment and excessive salaries for the bosses).

I'm not sure describing privatisation is dishonest is correct.  

Nationalised industries are monopolistic and whilst they need not necessarily motivated by profit or shareholder dividends, (the old British Industries still used to have to make a return set on money invested in them by the Government iirc) they are protected from competition and therefore have little incentive to become more efficient and effective, nor invest in research and development nor technological developments.

Competition is not necessarily a bad thing.

Certainly in terms of local government the compulsory requirement to put council blue collar work out to tender saved Town Halls across the country millions by cutting age old job protection practices and by using the massive economies of scale they had (the private companies tendering against the councils) in buying plant and machinery.

The result of this deregulation meant lower council taxes but a vast majority of the profits on running these contracts going abroad to particularly French companies (that some were saying were being 'illegally' financially supported by the French Government in order to compete in the first place!).

What mustn't be forgotten - and the point behind it all - was the political will at the time.

The Thatcher government had in mind to break the large Labour Council's that consistently defied them by deliberately overspending their government allocation to all the various councils - particularly Liverpool who at one time refused to set their Rates - which ultimately led to measures such as Rate Capping, Compulsory Competitive Tendering and ultimately the Poll Tax.

Privatisation is not all bad nor Nationalisation all good (or visa versa) - some services perhaps should be protected and not have to face competition, whilst others should - but who says which is which - the politicians of course - and depending who is trying to get power (Rule 1) and those attempting to keep power (Rule 2) - depends on what posture will be taken.

These postures may as mad as it may seem - not be in the best long terms interests of the country - and I guess the complete balls up we've got ourselves in over Brexit - from the completely unnecessary referendum by Cameron to shut up anti-EU wing of his party, to the lack of will from Corbyn to fight to prevent it - is all about short term political gains / limiting losses.

It's all a game really - Machiavellian - which he wrote about in his book The Prince five hundred years ago!

People shouldn't take politics seriously - most politicians certainly don't - you only have to look at all of those involved in the MP's expenses scandal to judge what their integratory is to their beliefs!

I agree with a lot of the points you make sluffy but what I was trying to get across is that most if not all the more recent privatisations (from water onwards) have been driven by political dogma and sold dishonestly to voters as being about efficiency not greed. That is the big lie.

Where we have to have a monopoly, for purely practical reasons like water, it makes no sense to privatise. Monopolies are inherently inefficient but private monopolies are far worse because they will actively screw their customers to maximise their profits and dividends - which is exactly what we have seen with the water and railway companies.

It is just the same with the various PFI deals (thanks Gordon!) where the private companies take the profits and the taxpayer keeps all the risks. Look at two very recent examples: the collapse of Carillion and the East Coast rail bailout which will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds.

More absolute drivel from Boris:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43210156

xmiles wrote:More absolute drivel from Boris:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43210156

Oh, Boris......seek help quickly!

Show some respect, that's our future PM.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Show some respect, that's our future PM.

Well he thinks he is anyway.

I wouldn't trust BoJo to run a bath nevermind a country.

All anyone has to do to get to know the real Boris is to watch this car-crash interview with Eddie Mair. 
He is such a nasty lying piece of work.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2013/mar/24/boris-johnson-accused-nasty-video

Even by the low standards of politicians Boris has to be one of the biggest liars in Parliament. Like Trump he is the kind of person who seems to find it easier to lie than tell the truth.

So....when it came to Boris' pre-referendum claims, was it any surprise that he just made things up? 
His "partnership" with the equally odious Gove was truly grotesque. 

What does it say about May and her judgement that she sees fit to assign him to a major post in the cabinet?

No wonder the EU don't trust us.

okocha wrote:So....when it came to Boris' pre-referendum claims, was it any surprise that he just made things up? 
His "partnership" with the equally odious Gove was truly grotesque. 

What does it say about May and her judgement that she sees fit to assign him to a major post in the cabinet?

No wonder the EU don't trust us.

I guess it's a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

More money wasted:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43372084

The diplomatic tensions with Russia we’re seeing unfold right now is a perfect example of what many of us warned prior to Brexit. Stronger as part of the EU on defence and diplomacy than we are today, cut off and powerless.

We expel 23 diplomats and the Russians expel 23 of our diplomats and we are no further forward.

T.R.O.Y wrote:The diplomatic tensions with Russia we’re seeing unfold right now is a perfect example of what many of us warned prior to Brexit.

Link me to where you wrote this.

I said it, don’t worry about where.

T.R.O.Y wrote: Stronger as part of the EU on defence and diplomacy than we are today, cut off and powerless.

What ???  Absolute rubbish !!! Part of the EU ? In case you hadn't noticed, were in NATO, and, many of our allies that you claim have abandoned us, have, in fact, come out in support.