Brexit negotiations

Norpig wrote:Some people have no other option than to use foodbanks and that's wholly the fault of the austerity cuts implemented by the Tories, That foodbanks even exist is a national disgrace.

Ironically it then provides Tory MPs with photo opportunities to be seen looking "compassionately" at the people getting food from the foodbanks.

Even more ironically some of these people probably voted for them.  

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

wanderlust wrote:To keep a final referendum simple, two questions:

1) Leave EU Yes or No?

2) If the majority vote to leave, May's deal or No Deal?

That just about covers the realistic options I reckon.

I won't vote again. And millions of others won't either.

What's the point of voting if results are ignored?

What like the original vote to join the EU?

If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

Not necessarily seeing as there's always a possibility that Leave voters are pissed off they were lied to in the first place and what they were voting for was never realistic or achievable or was based on scaremongering that has proved to be unwarranted. I certainly know loads of Leave voters who would now vote to stay in.

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.

I sort of agree, but Brexit isn't a party issue. 
And if in a general election there were large scale abstentions, somebody would get elected anyway so it's not a viable strategy for change.

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.

I sort of agree, but Brexit isn't a party issue. 
And if in a general election there were large scale abstentions, somebody would get elected anyway so it's not a viable strategy for change.

Of course it is a party issue!!!

We would even have had a referendum never mind Brexit if it wasn't for Cameron trying to squash the Euro sceptics inside his party.

Even then we wouldn't have got Brexit if Boris hadn't become the figure head of the Leave campaign because he thought he would play a bit of inter party politics by planning to lose the referendum but scoop the Eurosceptic vote within his party for a leadership bid.

As for Corbyn he's playing party politics by not fighting against Brexit but biding his time until after it and win the next General Election because the mood of the public as changed against it!

It's all to do with party politics - the vast majority of MP's voted Remain - yet they are kept in line with their party whips!

Even you should be able to see that?

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.

I couldn't agree more

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.

I sort of agree, but Brexit isn't a party issue. 
And if in a general election there were large scale abstentions, somebody would get elected anyway so it's not a viable strategy for change.

Of course it is a party issue!!!

We would even have had a referendum never mind Brexit if it wasn't for Cameron trying to squash the Euro sceptics inside his party.

Even then we wouldn't have got Brexit if Boris hadn't become the figure head of the Leave campaign because he thought he would play a bit of inter party politics by planning to lose the referendum but scoop the Eurosceptic vote within his party for a leadership bid.

As for Corbyn he's playing party politics by not fighting against Brexit but biding his time until after it and win the next General Election because the mood of the public as changed against it!

It's all to do with party politics - the vast majority of MP's voted Remain - yet they are kept in line with their party whips!

Even you should be able to see that?

The trouble is that Corbyn embraces Brexit despite the fact that a high proportion of Labour voters would prefer to remain in the EU. So at this moment in time you could say Brexit isn't a party issue because the Leaders of the only electable Parties both want Brexit (even though one of them doesn't really).

Labour members want to stay in the EU but is that the same as labour voters?

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.

I sort of agree, but Brexit isn't a party issue. 
And if in a general election there were large scale abstentions, somebody would get elected anyway so it's not a viable strategy for change.

Of course it is a party issue!!!

We would even have had a referendum never mind Brexit if it wasn't for Cameron trying to squash the Euro sceptics inside his party.

Even then we wouldn't have got Brexit if Boris hadn't become the figure head of the Leave campaign because he thought he would play a bit of inter party politics by planning to lose the referendum but scoop the Eurosceptic vote within his party for a leadership bid.

As for Corbyn he's playing party politics by not fighting against Brexit but biding his time until after it and win the next General Election because the mood of the public as changed against it!

It's all to do with party politics - the vast majority of MP's voted Remain - yet they are kept in line with their party whips!

Even you should be able to see that?

So if half the Tories want in and the other half want out - as they do - what does that make the Tory party? 
Ditto Labour.
Euroseceptism is and always been a free vote issue.

Even you should be able to see that? Hang on...you probably can't.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Labour members want to stay in the EU but is that the same as labour voters?

THe percentages are different but every survey undertaken shows most Labour voters are opposed to brexit. To quote a recent survey: "There was some difference between the views of Labour voters and members. While a parallel poll of 1,675 voters found 73% of the party’s supporters believed the Brexit decision was a mistake, for members that rises to 89%."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjfk-aul-bfAhU2TxUIHetQCaMQFjAQegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fjan%2F02%2Fmost-labour-members-believe-corbyn-should-back-second-brexit-vote&usg=AOvVaw0PgLx9o7YYqmi-yQPAYrAK

[quote="wanderlust"
So if half the Tories want in and the other half want out - as they do - what does that make the Tory party? 
Ditto Labour.
Euroseceptism is and always been a free vote issue.
[/quote]

But there is a massive difference between Labour and Tory voters over brexit. Labour voters are overwhelmingly opposed to brexit. Tory voters are so keen on it that 76% of them want a no deal brexit!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj78ODfmObfAhX6QxUIHYYZDYwQFjADegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fjan%2F04%2Fmost-tory-members-would-choose-no-deal-over-may-brexit-plan&usg=AOvVaw19cMc56Op3XllYdt3vdsw8

Corbyn on Marr this morning. Reaffirming the labour position is to take all the benefits of the EU and none of the burdens.

Said the EU are "quite flexible" ha ha ha ha.

He won't be mocked though. He's not a Tory.

Thought he came across very well, certainly appears a prime minister in waiting. Stephen Barclay was dead air, swerved every question.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Corbyn on Marr this morning. Reaffirming the labour position is to take all the benefits of the EU and none of the burdens.

Said the EU are "quite flexible" ha ha ha ha.

He won't be mocked though. He's not a Tory.

He is not electable. Some survey recently pointed out that something like 75 percent of Labour voters would vote to to remain in the EU and 90 percent of people who are Labour Party members would do the same if there was a second referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/22/corbyn-under-pressure-from-labour-members-over-brexit

To go on record as saying that he would leave the EU but keep the benefits makes him look more stupid than Theresa May. What an absolute bunch of fucktards sit in the House of Commons. Look at us idiots. We are the ones who will be worse off. We are the ones who have to work now until we are 67 (or older) to get the money back that we paid in for 40 odd years. They destroy the Country and get to retire at 60.

Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

xmiles wrote:Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

Strange attitude, May the architect of the hostile environment who has created the shambles we are now in.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

Strange attitude, May the architect of the hostile environment who has created the shambles we are now in.

Corbyn is the bigger hypocrite.

I would drown both fuckers.