Changing britain’s reputation abroad

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Bloody foreigners !!!

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Any examples of us being badly treated though? Seems they've been pretty clear since the start as to what their red lines would be - and stuck to them.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Any examples of us being badly treated though? Seems they've been pretty clear since the start as to what their red lines would be - and stuck to them.

Have to agree T.R.O.Y as the UK asked to leave. It is up to the UK to come up with a way to leave. The ball is completely in the hands of the UK. If they think they are being treated badly (the UK), why don't they just say to the EU "goodbye, we are gone, not interested in any deal" and go ? For info as an example regarding one of the big issues, the UK took 12000 refugees in the time Germany took 1.4 million. I heard nothing about the EU forcing the UK to take any more.

DK, as a result of taking 1.4 million immigrants Germany is now in turmoil, with Merkles party floundering, and lots of civil unrest in some areas. One comment I've heard a number of times, including from my German brother-in-law, is that she only took the immigrants because she was trying to head off a probable shortfall in workers a few years up the line. Not very altruistic.

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Which rules are you thinking of glos? The ones banning bendy bananas and prawn cocktail crisps or the ones banning hormone stuffed beef and chlorine flavoured chicken?

Come on XM, you're better than this.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Any examples of us being badly treated though? Seems they've been pretty clear since the start as to what their red lines would be - and stuck to them.

Its supposed to be a negotiation.

I can't believe there are now TWO Brexit threads.

About time the mods stepped in.

Nat, its the same as Brexit itself, and neither will meet in the middle. 

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Which rules are you thinking of glos? The ones banning bendy bananas and prawn cocktail crisps or the ones banning hormone stuffed beef and chlorine flavoured chicken?

Come on XM, you're better than this.

The serious point I am trying to make is that there is far too much talk about these allegedly onerous rules being "imposed" on us but very little evidence of any real damage being done by those rules that we adopt. Part of the problem is that we don't always use the rules very sensibly. For example we can send foreign criminals back to their own countries but we seldom do. We don't stop people who own fishing rights from selling them to foreigners unlike most other EU member states. And so on.

gloswhite wrote:DK, as a result of taking 1.4 million immigrants Germany is now in turmoil, with Merkles party floundering, and lots of civil unrest in some areas. One comment I've heard a number of times, including from my German brother-in-law, is that she only took the immigrants because she was trying to head off a probable shortfall in workers a few years up the line. Not very altruistic.

Don't believe everything you hear or read. At the start there was a lot of concern about the influx of immigrants. That has died down except for in areas that hated all foreigners anyway. Most of these places like Dresden and Chemnitz etc have always been distrustful of any outsideres. My neighbours are from somewhere near Magdeburg in the old East Germany. They moved down to Bavaria and still don't like foreigners, despite the fact that in effect that is what they are as Bavaria doesn't think of itself as Germany  

Where I live is about 1km from an old Airbase that was actually used as a processing centre for immigrants. Consequently there are thousands living in the general area now. The biggest complaint is not about the number of immigrants, rather about where they came from because it is pretty clear that around 90% of them have never set foot in Syria for a start.

Yes, Merkel made a big mistake, but actually it is not the disaster everyone thinks. You see a lot in the press about what's been going on with regard to immigrants, but it is nothing like as bad as it was a year ago. It takes a long time for Germans to trust people anyway. I worked with some guys for years who wouldn't even acknowledge the fact I had said good morning to them. Ignorant bastards is what I thought of them, but most are OK. It will never change in places like Dresden because most of the older former Eastern Germans like to complain about anything and everything. As for boosting the work force, that was never going to work anyway. I can honestly say that maybe 1% of the new wave of immigrants (if that) are working. It's hard enough to get a job in Germany as an EU Citizen with all the hoops you have to jump through (acceptance of your education and certificates etc) so what chance do the immigrants have, as all the really low skilled jobs are already the domain of Turkish people over here.

Met a young German girl who is backpacking around south east Asia on her own and asked her if it was safe in Vietnam, Cambodia,Laos and here in Thailand and she said she feels much safer here than in her own home  town where groups of Somalis and Syrians hang around on street corners and have threatening behaviour especially towards females. (Paraphrased)
I’m all for taking in refugees but only on the condition that appalling outdated attitudes to women are dropped and some attempt at cultural and social integration is made.

In the overall worldly scheme of things I think our general reputation worldwide is one of positivity. We can all consider which bits are newsworthy, from Brit tourists in the Spanish Costas to the excellent work carried out through most poor countries in Africa, relations with stubborn diplomacies such as Russia and China and education, science and research in many disciplines around the globe. The media in this country generally talk us down, but lots of countries I have visited have been mainly positive about our international standing.

Bollotom2014 wrote:In the overall worldly scheme of things I think our general reputation worldwide is one of positivity. We can all consider which bits are newsworthy, from Brit tourists in the Spanish Costas to the excellent work carried out through most poor countries in Africa, relations with stubborn diplomacies such as Russia and China and education, science and research in many disciplines around the globe. The media in this country generally talk us down, but lots of countries I have visited have been mainly positive about our international standing.

I think that’s true in a lot of places but we do have a very dodgy history as regards how we got to the top in the first place via e.g. controlling the world opium trade, colonialism, slavery and exploitation so not everyone thinks we’re great.

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:All this arguing and self flagellation of the UK and its politicians isn't very nice, but nobody seems to be bothered by the treatment we have received from the Europeans. I honestly believe that the way they have behaved is a real disgrace. Looking after your own is one thing, but doing what they have done to a major partner is despicable. 100 years after the end of the first World War, and all they can think about is how to punish us for wanting to be free of their rules. 
I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

Any examples of us being badly treated though? Seems they've been pretty clear since the start as to what their red lines would be - and stuck to them.

Its supposed to be a negotiation.

We were told the EU’s red lines before the vote even happened, nothing has changed. I don’t think it’s in any way fair to say we’ve been punished by them. They’ve been clear as to what leaving the EU entails, the politicians who championed it have not. 

I’d be aiming my criticism at the Tory party if I was you, May promised to stick to her red lines or walk away, it’s whats in her manifesto. She’s basically lied to her entire voting base.