Club Future - Administration or bust?

Great minds Boncey, just what  I thought as I posted that.

I think they've had their dressing gowns on  for most of the season too!

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Report and Accounts have passed their statutory deadline. I can only assume that Ken is sitting on them and refusing to sign them off. This is the sort of thing that can happen when you have a one man Board!

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?
Is this all loans made to Anderson by Moonshift?
And this is in addition to the £29 million debt of BL i.e. £55million to buy the club?

It's not easy to explain in a couple of sentences AND we are totally reliant on what someone who has their own agenda for posting is saying.

In a nutshell it seems Eddie Davies was always funding the club on the quiet.
He paid £8m at least into it to pay wages and BM - but the £8m was done via a personal loan to KA and/or his company that holds the ownership shares of the club Inner Circle Investments Ltd (or ICI for short).  This money has definitely gone into the club from KA (who as I've said above - but wasn't believed by one!) as his personal money - but he secured it against the club so in theory he could always liquidate the club to get it back and pay off his debt.

Further sums of future income from the EFL and/or stage payments on transfer fees have been factored - money paid up front on account less a commission - but this money was paid to ICI and not the club.  KA however apparently lent it to the club and ICI thus became a creditor to the club if the club ever went bust, even though the money was for the club itself.

H first told us the £8m plus the factored money (which one assumes 'rested' in ICI bank - in Father Ted style) amounted to something like £13.3m (meaning the factoring accounted for around £5.3m).

He initially told us Dark Horse would deal for the £8m they paid for the shares, allow KA a £2m pay off and waive the remainder subject to performance bonuses - say we got to the Premier League in three seasons or something along those lines.

Today Howard seems to be telling us that the whole £13.3m is 'factored' money, and that ICI no longer has it!  So not only does whoever takes us over needs to find £13.3m to pay off the factoring company (the debt is owed by the club not ICI) plus having to find £13.3m again to plug the gap that the advances payments were intended to cover for the future wages/other bills - so debt of £26.6m.

In my mind this doesn't tally with what Howard has said before.

I've raised my doubts via a post on the forum but it seems to have not been addressed to date.

I strongly suspect that all is not as is being portrayed.

Time will tell one way or another I guess.

Thanks for your detailed post Sluffy.

I won't pretend I understand it all, but some things are a little clearer.

I do wonder just what Howard's motivation is in all the posting he/she is doing and how much of it is fact or fiction.

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?

Burden Leisure received funds from the EFL and from transfers (rumoured to be around £13.3 million)

BL (aka Anderson) then "loaned" the £13.3 million money to Inner Circle (aka Anderson)

It is alleged that the £13.3 million then "magically disappeared" from Inner Circle which leaves Anderson in a position to liquidate Inner Circle and BWFC no chance of getting the £13.3 million they "loaned" him back.

Pretty much what Anderson was previously convicted for.

Disclaimers: 

• We don't know if this is true yet. 
  
• If true, we don't know what Anderson did with the money - yet
  
• I am not ready to reiterate my well documented suspicion that Anderson has asset-stripped our club - yet.
  

One thing for sure is if more hidden debts keep surfacing then the chance of us being sold is going to be very low. I'm starting to fear the worst again.

BTW it's not £26 million.
It's alleged to be £13.3 million of income that prospective purchasers thought they were going to get as part of the deal, to offset part of the £29 million that Burden Leisure owes.
And above and beyond ongoing running costs, it's unlikely new "hidden debts" will emerge - as if that wasn't enough already.

wanderlust wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?

Burden Leisure received funds from the EFL and from transfers (rumoured to be around £13.3 million)

BL (aka Anderson) then "loaned" the £13.3 million money to Inner Circle (aka Anderson)

It is alleged that the £13.3 million then "magically disappeared" from Inner Circle which leaves Anderson in a position to liquidate Inner Circle and BWFC no chance of getting the £13.3 million they "loaned" him back.

Pretty much what Anderson was previously convicted for.

Disclaimers: 

• We don't know if this is true yet. 
  
• If true, we don't know what Anderson did with the money - yet
  
• I am not ready to reiterate my well documented suspicion that Anderson has asset-stripped our club - yet.
  

Thanks for that LUSTY. It's looking grim.

Cajunboy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?

Burden Leisure received funds from the EFL and from transfers (rumoured to be around £13.3 million)

BL (aka Anderson) then "loaned" the £13.3 million money to Inner Circle (aka Anderson)

It is alleged that the £13.3 million then "magically disappeared" from Inner Circle which leaves Anderson in a position to liquidate Inner Circle and BWFC no chance of getting the £13.3 million they "loaned" him back.

Pretty much what Anderson was previously convicted for.

Disclaimers: 

• We don't know if this is true yet. 
  
• If true, we don't know what Anderson did with the money - yet
  
• I am not ready to reiterate my well documented suspicion that Anderson has asset-stripped our club - yet.
  

Thanks for that LUSTY. It's looking grim.

See post 637
God knows what will become of us if any of this is true. As I've said all along, I pray it isn't even though I suspect it might be.

What we've learned today though is -

- Howard is saying Dark Horse has refused at Beechers Brook, due to nothing to land on at the other side of the fence because a super massive Black Hole (I look forward to seeing the programme on BBC1 tonight on them if back in time) of almost £30m.  That being additional to the already known about £29m of secured and unsecured debtors already known about.
- Howards Sceptics club seems to be growing both on here and Team FIBS, one of whose associates stating that Wanderers Ways should take a day off - presumably just in respect of this thread though?
- I guess fuel to the fire was perhaps added in that H now tells us his clients were going to fund Mr Bassini in buying the club but he failed to front up the security on which would allow this to happen - must still be in the drier I guess?
- All is not lost the Allies of presumably Basran and Gaspard could be formed with Dark Horse funding to fight the Axis of evil (if indeed that is what Ken turns out to be) in what will turn out to be a 'slow growth' recovery if successful (I read that as like the ST with no money behind them to speak of style ownership) with Howards client turning their funding to equity in the future when in suits their plan - presumably of developing the land?
- Some dark aspirations about Mr Anderson's character being made by H but he's standing behind the defence of the truth being an accepted defence against possible defamation.  
- As always though a thoroughly absorbing and narrative and one that is keeping us on the edge of our seats!

Will we be saved?  Why did Mr James (Team Basran) pay staff wages, Why hasn't Kane's very insightful post not been addressed?  How big do supermassive grow to?

Tune in tomorrow for the next gripping instalment.

Again, are we Bolton Nuts or Wanderers Ways?

Do Wanderers Ways talk about Boggers ITK all day?

Why would they?

Natasha Whittam wrote:Again, are we Bolton Nuts or Wanderers Ways?

Do Wanderers Ways talk about Boggers ITK all day?

We are fans of the club.

Howard tells a better tale than Boggers.

I'm not the one copying and pasting stuff on there on to here.

I actually post my 'what have we learned today' on Nuts first - then copy and post it on Wways.

I've even got Wanderlust with his alias account on there abusing me - how utterly sad and pathetic is that for a man in his sixties!!!

Everybody is reading it/or wants to know what the gossip is resulting from it.

Anyway it seems Howards thread has been taken down from Wways (unless it's just been put into a restricted area for a certain few to see?).

Been taken down due to some of the comments being defamatory (possibly)

wanderlust wrote:BTW it's not £26 million.
It's alleged to be £13.3 million of income that prospective purchasers thought they were going to get as part of the deal, to offset part of the £29 million that Burden Leisure owes.
And above and beyond ongoing running costs, it's unlikely new "hidden debts" will emerge - as if that wasn't enough already.

No that is not the case.

Howard states that it is additional to the £29 million of secured and unsecured creditors at BL.

He is saying the £13.3m is money due to BL but have been paid up front to ICI because it as been 'factored'.  This 'cash' up front has been 'loaned back to the club and makes ICI an intercompany creditor of BL.

It was claimed that KA would have waived the loan on completion of a takeover but H is saying that no longer is going to happen.

So as it stands ICI has received £13.3m up front - that isn't going to be paid back - and whoever takes the club on won't have the expected the future scheduled stage payments (from the EFL/transfers) to pay towards the wages etc because it is also needed to pay off the factoring company - so the club is out £13.3m to ICI, whilst still having to pay off the factoring company AND the wages (from the £13.3m to be paid into the club from future stage payments) - so £13.3m more needs to be found to settle both the future wages AND the factoring company.

£13.3m taken by ICI via factoring plus a further £13.3m to pay the factoring company or future wages (one or the other but not both) leaves the additional £26.6m black hole.

That's the story although it doesn't ring entirely true to me.

This is more important than one forum against another please update Sluffy, i have followed the thread ending up utterly confused with Howards comments today, however i cant seem to get on to the WW now as a guest viewer. It really is a massive leap comparing it to boggers ITK lol

wessy wrote:This is more important than one forum against another

Would you go into Asda and ask them for Sainsbury's own brand cornflakes?

I would rather the club folded than be run by our idiot fans.

Difficult to see the end game, keep hoping that someone with the club at heart stumps up the money to end this stress. But the same question keeps popping into my head, why would you throw money at a Football club unless you had an angle that allowed you to have more in your pocket when you walk away than you started with?

I see how KA thought he could do that, and at one point I thought it was heading for a mutually beneficial end but now we are seeing glimpses of what is behind the curtain and it ain't pretty.
It also seems to be the more investors look they less inclined they are to invest.

What has not been helpful for us as fans are those who have seen this as an opportunity to get their name back in the press without concern for the damage they are doing. I hope the new day brings some respite and more information.

Buellix wrote:Difficult to see the end game, keep hoping that someone with the club at heart stumps up the money to end this stress. But the same question keeps popping into my head, why would you throw money at a Football club unless you had an angle that allowed you to have more in your pocket when you walk away than you started with?

I see how KA thought he could do that, and at one point I thought it was heading for a mutually beneficial end but now we are seeing glimpses of what is behind the curtain and it ain't pretty.
It also seems to be the more investors look they less inclined they are to invest.

What has not been helpful for us as fans are those who have seen this as an opportunity to get their name back in the press without concern for the damage they are doing. I hope the new day brings some respite and more information.

The reason people see pound signs to take on the club, if you believe Howard, is from potential sale of the land owned by the club to develop for housing.

Some of the big players may also sit on the land for a few years as the value rises - and take a punt at chucking some money at the club - as a side bet if you will - on the off chance we get promoted to the wealth of the Premier League.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to get planning permission for housing but I assume there must be a reasonable chance as people move away from shopping in person to a more Amazon/Tesco Delivery type 'millennium' way of shopping.