Brexit negotiations

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:I think people are getting sick and tired of all this nonsense.

What has today achieved? Will this sort out Brexit once and for all? Of course not, it just gives MP's a platform to continue telling us what they don't want. They've been doing that for 3 years.

If they're so against Boris and they think he's weak then surely they should be all for a General Election?

I think it's hilarious especially the bit where Boris's puppetmaster Cummings actually made a mistake for once in assuming that Labour etc would fall into the trap of going for an election before a deal was struck or a people's vote took place. He was so confident of railroading no-deal through as well.

I agree. Cummings was too full of himself, and thought nobody could see what his very naive thinking was trying to hide.

T.R.O.Y wrote:I think the Labour position is easily the most pragmatic and sensible now. Get a new deal then put it to the people to decide.

The Lib Dem’s and Tories are as bad as each other, Swinsons revoke article 50 is indefensible. It’s a lack of compromise which has got us into this mess.

Its not pragmatic at all. Get a deal, from Boris even, and put it to the vote in Parliament, instead of fannying about trying to curry favour with their own confused members. Yet again they are in disarray, and are trying to get the public to vote, so taking any responsibility off them if it doesn't work. And it won't work, no matter what the outcome.

gloswhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:I think people are getting sick and tired of all this nonsense.

What has today achieved? Will this sort out Brexit once and for all? Of course not, it just gives MP's a platform to continue telling us what they don't want. They've been doing that for 3 years.

If they're so against Boris and they think he's weak then surely they should be all for a General Election?

I think it's hilarious especially the bit where Boris's puppetmaster Cummings actually made a mistake for once in assuming that Labour etc would fall into the trap of going for an election before a deal was struck or a people's vote took place. He was so confident of railroading no-deal through as well.

I agree. Cummings was too full of himself, and thought nobody could see what his very naive thinking was trying to hide.

Yeah but he railroaded the Brexit referendum through didn't he and that psychological profiling of the 40 million+ British Facebook users and targeted button pushing was a stroke of genius as much as I hate to admit it. Not quite sure if enough people have sussed out that they were manipulated to bring down the Mercer/Bannan/foreign billionaires/|Eton OB's plot yet but it's good to know that the backbone of our glorious nation, the British Justice system and the world's oldest continuous democratic Parliament are finally doing what they were set up to do and protect the British people from despots and charlatans.

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:I think the Labour position is easily the most pragmatic and sensible now. Get a new deal then put it to the people to decide.

The Lib Dem’s and Tories are as bad as each other, Swinsons revoke article 50 is indefensible. It’s a lack of compromise which has got us into this mess.

Its not pragmatic at all. Get a deal, from Boris even, and put it to the vote in Parliament, instead of fannying about trying to curry favour with their own confused members. Yet again they are in disarray, and are trying to get the public to vote, so taking any responsibility off them if it doesn't work. And it won't work, no matter what the outcome.

Eh? Boris isn’t trying to get a deal, he’s trying to circumvent democracy to push through a no deal.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:I think the Labour position is easily the most pragmatic and sensible now. Get a new deal then put it to the people to decide.

The Lib Dem’s and Tories are as bad as each other, Swinsons revoke article 50 is indefensible. It’s a lack of compromise which has got us into this mess.

Its not pragmatic at all. Get a deal, from Boris even, and put it to the vote in Parliament, instead of fannying about trying to curry favour with their own confused members. Yet again they are in disarray, and are trying to get the public to vote, so taking any responsibility off them if it doesn't work. And it won't work, no matter what the outcome.

Eh? Boris isn’t trying to get a deal, he’s trying to circumvent democracy to push through a no deal.

Exactly. I find it incredible that some folk haven't yet cottoned on to the fact that Boris is just a pawn in this game of Brexit which is being run by billionaires who stand to profit massively from us leaving the EU without giving a flying f*** about what happens to the country or the millions of people they have conned into thinking that a united EU isn't a good thing.
Hedge funder billionaire Crispin Odey told Boris to go for prorogation in no uncertain terms months before it happened - even before they made him PM.
Odey openly says it on the recent Channel 4 video.
Who on earth do folk think is behind Brexit and who is pulling the strings?
Check out the Odey/Rupert Murdoch/Steve Bannan/Mercer/Cambridge Analytica/Dominic Cummings connections and you'll see who is trying to take over the country and why.

I can’t believe how naive the opposition parties are in calling for Johnson’s resignation despite him having misled the people, the Queen and Parliament. Do they actually think he’d ever do that? The only way Johnson would ever fall on his sword would be if his bosses told him to and I doubt very much that the Evil Empire have got another stooge with a realistic chance of being able to step in lined up.
I’m now wondering what their next move will be - perhaps whipping up another fake news frenzy via their Murdoch/Harmsworth/Barclay media wing and Cummings Facebook operation to take back control of the dialogue? Seems plausible as Cummings is currently overseeing in excess of 300 targeted Facebook ads.

wanderlust wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:I think the Labour position is easily the most pragmatic and sensible now. Get a new deal then put it to the people to decide.

The Lib Dem’s and Tories are as bad as each other, Swinsons revoke article 50 is indefensible. It’s a lack of compromise which has got us into this mess.

Its not pragmatic at all. Get a deal, from Boris even, and put it to the vote in Parliament, instead of fannying about trying to curry favour with their own confused members. Yet again they are in disarray, and are trying to get the public to vote, so taking any responsibility off them if it doesn't work. And it won't work, no matter what the outcome.

Eh? Boris isn’t trying to get a deal, he’s trying to circumvent democracy to push through a no deal.

Exactly. I find it incredible that some folk haven't yet cottoned on to the fact that Boris is just a pawn in this game of Brexit which is being run by billionaires who stand to profit massively from us leaving the EU without giving a flying f*** about what happens to the country or the millions of people they have conned into thinking that a united EU isn't a good thing.
Hedge funder billionaire Crispin Odey told Boris to go for prorogation in no uncertain terms months before it happened - even before they made him PM.
Odey openly says it on the recent Channel 4 video.
Who on earth do folk think is behind Brexit and who is pulling the strings?
Check out the Odey/Rupert Murdoch/Steve Bannan/Mercer/Cambridge Analytica/Dominic Cummings connections and you'll see who is trying to take over the country and why.

And of course Hedge fund Millionairess Gina Miller is only intervening for the good of the country ?

gloswhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:I think the Labour position is easily the most pragmatic and sensible now. Get a new deal then put it to the people to decide.

The Lib Dem’s and Tories are as bad as each other, Swinsons revoke article 50 is indefensible. It’s a lack of compromise which has got us into this mess.

Its not pragmatic at all. Get a deal, from Boris even, and put it to the vote in Parliament, instead of fannying about trying to curry favour with their own confused members. Yet again they are in disarray, and are trying to get the public to vote, so taking any responsibility off them if it doesn't work. And it won't work, no matter what the outcome.

Eh? Boris isn’t trying to get a deal, he’s trying to circumvent democracy to push through a no deal.

Exactly. I find it incredible that some folk haven't yet cottoned on to the fact that Boris is just a pawn in this game of Brexit which is being run by billionaires who stand to profit massively from us leaving the EU without giving a flying f*** about what happens to the country or the millions of people they have conned into thinking that a united EU isn't a good thing.
Hedge funder billionaire Crispin Odey told Boris to go for prorogation in no uncertain terms months before it happened - even before they made him PM.
Odey openly says it on the recent Channel 4 video.
Who on earth do folk think is behind Brexit and who is pulling the strings?
Check out the Odey/Rupert Murdoch/Steve Bannan/Mercer/Cambridge Analytica/Dominic Cummings connections and you'll see who is trying to take over the country and why.

And of course Hedge fund Millionairess Gina Miller is only intervening for the good of the country ?

You do know the Crispin Odey was married to Rupert Murdoch's daughter don't you? And that when asked to comment on his 30 odd year hate campaign against the EU via his newspapers (mainly The Sun) and his other media Murdoch famously said "when I go to Brussels they don't listen to me but when I go to Downing Street they do what I say"

Just think about that for a moment. One of the main billionaires at the forefront of the Brexit Leave campaign saying that he actually controls our government. And that he wants us to leave the EU because they won't give him the "relaxation" of business regulation he wants.

I struggled with that for a while because like most people I assumed there's a bit of an old boys club for the odd favour, but control????
But then the Levenson Enquiry exposed the dirty tricks/phone tapping campaign he used to get political leverage.
And David Cameron's Director of Communication was jailed for 18 months for his part. Then Murdoch set up Michael Gove's meeting with his mate Donald Trump as was in the room during the actual meeting.
And that Trump admitted to calling Murdoch to congratulate him on getting the Brexit referendum result. And that Murdoch owned 21st Century Fox during the Trump election campaign and when he sold it to Disney Trump called Murdoch for assurances that the pro-Trump Fox News Channel wouldn't be affected.

And then last year IEA -funded Culture Secretary Matt Hancock was in post just long enough to give Murdoch the all clear to take full control of SKY Plc.

Then there's the relationship between Bannan/Breitbart/Cambridge Analytica and the others behind the EU referendum campaign and Trump's election.

The UK and the US have each been sold a pup(pet) and every day we find out a little bit more about the cabal that's behind it.

wanderlust wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:I think the Labour position is easily the most pragmatic and sensible now. Get a new deal then put it to the people to decide.

The Lib Dem’s and Tories are as bad as each other, Swinsons revoke article 50 is indefensible. It’s a lack of compromise which has got us into this mess.

Its not pragmatic at all. Get a deal, from Boris even, and put it to the vote in Parliament, instead of fannying about trying to curry favour with their own confused members. Yet again they are in disarray, and are trying to get the public to vote, so taking any responsibility off them if it doesn't work. And it won't work, no matter what the outcome.

Eh? Boris isn’t trying to get a deal, he’s trying to circumvent democracy to push through a no deal.

Exactly. I find it incredible that some folk haven't yet cottoned on to the fact that Boris is just a pawn in this game of Brexit which is being run by billionaires who stand to profit massively from us leaving the EU without giving a flying f*** about what happens to the country or the millions of people they have conned into thinking that a united EU isn't a good thing.
Hedge funder billionaire Crispin Odey told Boris to go for prorogation in no uncertain terms months before it happened - even before they made him PM.
Odey openly says it on the recent Channel 4 video.
Who on earth do folk think is behind Brexit and who is pulling the strings?
Check out the Odey/Rupert Murdoch/Steve Bannan/Mercer/Cambridge Analytica/Dominic Cummings connections and you'll see who is trying to take over the country and why.

And of course Hedge fund Millionairess Gina Miller is only intervening for the good of the country ?

You do know the Crispin Odey was married to Rupert Murdoch's daughter don't you? And that when asked to comment on his 30 odd year hate campaign against the EU via his newspapers (mainly The Sun) and his other media Murdoch famously said "when I go to Brussels they don't listen to me but when I go to Downing Street they do what I say"

Just think about that for a moment. One of the main billionaires at the forefront of the Brexit Leave campaign saying that he actually controls our government. And that he wants us to leave the EU because they won't give him the "relaxation" of business regulation he wants.

I struggled with that for a while because like most people I assumed there's a bit of an old boys club for the odd favour, but control????
But then the Levenson Enquiry exposed the dirty tricks/phone tapping campaign he used to get political leverage.
And David Cameron's Director of Communication was jailed for 18 months for his part. Then Murdoch set up Michael Gove's meeting with his mate Donald Trump as was in the room during the actual meeting.
And that Trump admitted to calling Murdoch to congratulate him on getting the Brexit referendum result. And that Murdoch owned 21st Century Fox during the Trump election campaign and when he sold it to Disney Trump called Murdoch for assurances that the pro-Trump Fox News Channel wouldn't be affected.

And then last year IEA -funded Culture Secretary Matt Hancock was in post just long enough to give Murdoch the all clear to take full control of SKY Plc.

Then there's the relationship between Bannan/Breitbart/Cambridge Analytica and the others behind the EU referendum campaign and Trump's election.

The UK and the US have each been sold a pup(pet) and every day we find out a little bit more about the cabal that's behind it.

Have to be honest, if I knew this, then I'd forgotten it, or hadn't tied one piece to another. 
As you say its not good, but I'm sure that this sort of carrying on is doing the rounds all the time. I don't condone it it in any way, but accept that it happens, and there's nothing I can do about it, whether I know about it or not. Its the way of the world.
Thanks for the update though. (I'm still backing Boris, regardless of who's pulling his strings. )

Fair enough Glos but for me - and as much as I don't want to believe it - it seems increasingly true that a group of very rich individuals now have so much power that they can control or topple Governments, control the way people think and dictate their own terms to protect their empires and further their own business interests.
And that for me makes a mockery of democracy and the individual's right to think what they want to think rather than be constantly manipulated by the drip, drip, drip of disinformation they surround us with.
Not since the East India Company has any organisation had so much control over the British Government and the British people - but they were at least British for the most part. This lot are mainly foreigners and that just doesn't sit well with me, underlined by the fact that our own Prime Minister has an American passport.

Which is ironic inasmuch that these global businessmen are capitalising on anti-globalism and are doing everything in their power to stop nations co-operating across borders as it serves them to divide and conquer.

wanderlust wrote:Fair enough Glos but for me - and as much as I don't want to believe it - it seems increasingly true that a group of very rich individuals now have so much power that they can control or topple Governments, control the way people think and dictate their own terms to protect their empires and further their own business interests.
And that for me makes a mockery of democracy and the individual's right to think what they want to think rather than be constantly manipulated by the drip, drip, drip of disinformation they surround us with.
Not since the East India Company has any organisation had so much control over the British Government and the British people - but they were at least British for the most part. This lot are mainly foreigners and that just doesn't sit well with me, underlined by the fact that our own Prime Minister has an American passport.

Which is ironic inasmuch that these global businessmen are capitalising on anti-globalism and are doing everything in their power to stop nations co-operating across borders as it serves them to divide and conquer.

I can see exactly what you are saying, and, oddly, as a science fiction reader, this running of countries, , research, etc, by the mega rich internationals is a storyline that has been used on many occasions, and as we know, good science fiction is merely an extension of science fact. 
Sad, but true.

Speaking of SF, I re-read Flowers For Algernon last month, and it still has the power to disturb.

boltonbonce wrote:Speaking of SF, I re-read Flowers For Algernon last month, and it still has the power to disturb.

I remember that book as being very sad and an allegory for ageing and losing your faculties. Probably best I don't revisit it now.

Anyone want to start a SF thread? There are some great books (and a few films) out there amidst all the dross. For example any book by Iain M Banks or the film Arrival.

xmiles wrote:Anyone want to start a SF thread? There are some great books (and a few films) out there amidst all the dross. For example any book by Iain M Banks or the film Arrival.

I'll have a look at this one. I think he's a very strong writer, but don't ask me to define 'strong' 

Won't bother me. Go veggie, it's the future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49890034

boltonbonce wrote:Won't bother me. Go veggie, it's the future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49890034

I thought this is the food of the future?

boltonbonce wrote:Won't bother me. Go veggie, it's the future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49890034

 I'll stick to red meat thanks 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49877237