General Election

Blimey! Only two days before we crash out of Europe!
Hope Boris keeps his promise though and has already picked out his ditch.
Tick tock.....

Meanwhile here are the combined results of 77 different polls carried out during 2019 on "If there was a second referendum to leave the EU how would you vote" Something to think about when talking about "the will of the people" - and what is likely to happen in a GE if Boris decides to fight it on the basis of leaving - it's all to play for.

I admire your persistence WL but sadly you are wasting your time.

Brexiteers are completely immune to facts or reason. They made up their minds based on a combination of outright lies (bendy bananas, Turkey joining the EU, etc), anti foreigner prejudice and racism (EU citizens are net contributors to the exchequer rather than over here for the benefits), a deluded fantasy that they were voting against the establishment (by supporting Boris, Rees-Mogg, etc) and nostalgia for a past that never existed. They won't admit it but curiously can never provide any rational justification for voting leave. They prefer to trot out meaningless slogans like "taking back control" and certainly won't answer any questions you pose.

Corbyn has just signed his suicide note: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50221856

xmiles wrote:I admire your persistence WL but sadly you are wasting your time.

Brexiteers are completely immune to facts or reason. They made up their minds based on a combination of outright lies (bendy bananas, Turkey joining the EU, etc), anti foreigner prejudice and racism (EU citizens are net contributors to the exchequer rather than over here for the benefits), a deluded fantasy that they were voting against the establishment (by supporting Boris, Rees-Mogg, etc) and nostalgia for a past that never existed. They won't admit it but curiously can never provide any rational justification for voting leave. They prefer to trot out meaningless slogans like "taking back control" and certainly won't answer any questions you pose.

I'm not trying to influence anyone - as you say and as Prof Curtice showed this is an issue where few people have changed their minds but...I'm just putting it out there to see if anyone else - in either camp - believes wholeheartedly in the media narrative (really?) or has an interest in the tactics being employed by both camps to further their personal goals.
Because in my mind, whilst Brexit will probably be the battle ground in a GE, the real objectives are party-based political control and personal ambition rather than what is best for the economy and the nation as a result, and for the most part, both the Tories and Labour are being incredibly hypocritical.

Unfortunately it now looks like we going to have an election where the only topic will be brexit thus allowing Boris and the Tories to completely ignore the damage their cuts and a decade of austerity have done to the country.

Corbyn is a complete idiot and a massive liability.

xmiles wrote:
Corbyn is a complete idiot and a massive liability.

No shit. Sir Keir is probably the only one who could recapture the middle ground but he won't step up yet and unfortunately Corbyn will only serve to divide and lose because the man is unelectable. And at a time when the Tories are in complete disarray - unforgiveable.
Even worse, he can't see the fact that his popularity rating is so low that he can't win an election outright so would need to form a cross-party coalition to defeat the ERG-controlled Tory party and that someone else should lead that - but there's no chance of him backing down. He should quit before he f***s it up, but he won't.

Corbyn's not going to be doing well in the polls given the party's Brexit position. The country is polarised as leave or remain, Labour have gone down the route of a soft (least damaging) leave - which personally I agree with, but it's not an obvious vote winner with the country so polarised.

Why would someone else lead a cross party coalition with Labour?

T.R.O.Y wrote:Why would someone else lead a cross party coalition with Labour?

So the coalition doesn't get stigmatised by Corbyn who is widely disliked outside the Labour party - and he's even not universally popular within it either. It needs to be led by someone who is acceptable to the masses.

Have to say he's dumber than I thought - as a strategy for success this is suicidal unless he takes a backseat and forms a single issue coalition. Alternatively he could fight on the basis of promising a second referendum as the recent polls show more people want a second referendum rather than election here - but I guess that opportunity has been missed. He certainly needs to do something to fight back against the Cummings Propaganda machine.
Unless he's got a cunning plan.....

And his logic is all over the place - I thought his objection was based on ruling out leaving without a deal and yet he's capitulated on the basis of the EU granting an extension. On what planet does getting an extension from the EU rule out no deal?

So who fits your criteria of acceptable by the masses? Corbyn's got the largest democratic mandate of any politician in the house of commons at this moment in time. 

Vote share at previous election and multiple elections as Labour leader. He's clearly the logical choice to lead any coalition, whether you like him or not.

T.R.O.Y wrote:So who fits your criteria of acceptable by the masses? Corbyn's got the largest democratic mandate of any politician in the house of commons at this moment in time. 

Vote share at previous election and multiple elections as Labour leader. He's clearly the logical choice to lead any coalition, whether you like him or not.

Corbyn wasn't elected by the masses though. He won a safe seat locally and was eventually propelled into leadership by a faction within the Labour party.
As far as the marginal voters who don't have a party allegiance are concerned - and who are needed if there is to be any chance of winning - it's basically a popularity contest and according to the polls Corbyn is less popular than Ed Balls (retired) and Sadiq Khan (Mayor of London) in terms of labour politicians.
Personally I think they should appoint pro-remain non-politicians to speak for the coalition e.g. Sir Elton John, JK Rowling, Gary Lineker and Alan Partridge and use David Beckham, Daniel Craig, Idris Elba, Keira Knightley and Paloma Faith in the marketing materials - they all signed the People's Vote petition so they should be up for it.
...but I'd keep Bob Geldof, Bobby George, Helena Bonham-Carter and Delia as far away from the cameras as possible

He won over 300,000 votes from the labour membership (61%) in the second leadership challenge and over 12,000,000 (30%) of the public in the 2017 general election - hardly a faction.

Can't really be bothered to get into a debate on it, clearly you're not a fan - but he's got the largest democratic mandate by a distance, so either name who should be leading a potential coalition or correct the comment.

Seems to me that almost everyone is STILL arguing Brexit on party lines!! 

It should be about what's best for the future of the country, not the future of any political party....

If it's someone acceptable to the masses you want, you'll get another Blair clone.

Don't see as anyone in their right mind could be a fan of such a nasty evil man such as JC.

Labour ,dead men walking.

Just watched some labour idiot on news at ten saying they are going to win big and change this country around, Quite mad, grinning like a lunatic, Quite mad most definately mad, deranged, demented, away with the fairies.

It's a sideshow that Boris/Dominic have created to secure their jobs and avoid a People's Vote.

How does a GE get Brexit done ???? (Boris/Cummings justification) 
Basically there are 2 ways neither of which are likely....

1) Tories win by enough for an overall majority and then hope to force Boris's deal through - but that assumes the Tories who voted against it will not vote against it again once their continued presence is assured. Not likely as they are two different issues.
2) Lib Dems/Labour/SNP/Plaid Cymru/Greens make gains and force through a second referendum which kills Brexit. Not likely as the Tory dissenters will see the political danger so will block a referendum. Unless the coalition gets a majority.

Other than either of those, all the other potential outcomes leave us with exactly the same situation we have now.

Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic as far as I can tell.

The ONLY solution is to have a new (not second!) referendum where the choices are accept Boris's deal or remain.

Because those are the choices in the real world.

wanderlust wrote:

The ONLY solution is to have a new (not second!) referendum where the choices are accept Boris's deal or remain.

Because those are the choices in the real world.

Are you aware that what you’re describing is essentially Labour’s policy? Except they’d renegotiate Boris’s deal to be far less damaging and put that to the people alongside remain.