General Election

wanderlust wrote:

sunlight wrote:Because the Nurses have all gone back to Spain and other Countries now that Brexit is about to happen and we havent got many left. A proper mess.

More to the point, it's yet another undeliverable empty promise with which to put the likes of Rupert Murdoch in control of our country regardless of the cost to ordinary British people, too many of whom are taken in by the web of lies and the anti-European propaganda campaign.

It's the EU stopping nurses from outside the EU coming here so once we leave we have a whole shed load of countries to get them from.

Angry Dad wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

sunlight wrote:Because the Nurses have all gone back to Spain and other Countries now that Brexit is about to happen and we havent got many left. A proper mess.

More to the point, it's yet another undeliverable empty promise with which to put the likes of Rupert Murdoch in control of our country regardless of the cost to ordinary British people, too many of whom are taken in by the web of lies and the anti-European propaganda campaign.

It's the EU stopping nurses from outside the EU coming here so once we leave we have a whole shed load of countries to get them from.

So people voted for brexit so that nurses from EU countries could be replaced by nurses from third world countries? Really?

Angry Dad wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

sunlight wrote:Because the Nurses have all gone back to Spain and other Countries now that Brexit is about to happen and we havent got many left. A proper mess.

More to the point, it's yet another undeliverable empty promise with which to put the likes of Rupert Murdoch in control of our country regardless of the cost to ordinary British people, too many of whom are taken in by the web of lies and the anti-European propaganda campaign.

It's the EU stopping nurses from outside the EU coming here so once we leave we have a whole shed load of countries to get them from.

All those Tories sacked by Bojo when he staged that Coupe a while ago can retrain as Nurses.

..but if the NHS is sold off to American private sector organisations and we'll all have to buy medical insurance to get treated as they wind down the service in favour of private care, then it's likely that uptake of medical services will fall and a lot of sick people will just die as they do in the US thereby reducing the demand for nurses.

Boris is too scared of Andrew Neil to agree an interview date:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-6pPfuYvmAhXMMMAKHWnUCUQQFjAKegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fnov%2F27%2Flabour-fears-boris-johnson-will-duck-andrew-neil-interview&usg=AOvVaw1ZC5iFkjLPl8Xv-ygyWjyc

xmiles wrote:Boris is too scared of Andrew Neil to agree an interview date:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-6pPfuYvmAhXMMMAKHWnUCUQQFjAKegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fnov%2F27%2Flabour-fears-boris-johnson-will-duck-andrew-neil-interview&usg=AOvVaw1ZC5iFkjLPl8Xv-ygyWjyc

This is a well used strategy that works well for Boris. He knows Neil will ask awkward questions and for the same reason that he banned the Daily Mirror reporters from getting tickets on the Tory "battle bus", Cummings has protected him from situations he can't handle.
Similarly Cummings has been orchestrating a misinformation campaign for which there is no comeback and notably no punishment.
The third leg of the table is burying damaging information such as the report into Russian involvement in Brexit and the last election which will be released on a busy news day (e.g. Queen's death or a terrorist attack) sometime in the future when it's impact will be watered down. They were trying to do the same thing with the details of the negotiations with the Americans that included selling off the NHS until it was leaked today.
In essence, they have managed to spread a load of lies, hide the truth about their dirty dealings and avoid being questioned about it in the hope that their supporters are naive enough to think "that couldn't possibly be true" - and they know that if the truth about any of it comes out before the election they'll be sunk. And as long as they keep running from the questions and burying the truth they have a very good chance of getting away with it.

Classic Trumpian "fake news" playbook.

wanderlust wrote:

xmiles wrote:Boris is too scared of Andrew Neil to agree an interview date:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-6pPfuYvmAhXMMMAKHWnUCUQQFjAKegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fnov%2F27%2Flabour-fears-boris-johnson-will-duck-andrew-neil-interview&usg=AOvVaw1ZC5iFkjLPl8Xv-ygyWjyc

This is a well used strategy that works well for Boris. He knows Neil will ask awkward questions and for the same reason that he banned the Daily Mirror reporters from getting tickets on the Tory "battle bus", Cummings has protected him from situations he can't handle.
Similarly Cummings has been orchestrating a misinformation campaign for which there is no comeback and notably no punishment.
The third leg of the table is burying damaging information such as the report into Russian involvement in Brexit and the last election which will be released on a busy news day (e.g. Queen's death or a terrorist attack) sometime in the future when it's impact will be watered down. They were trying to do the same thing with the details of the negotiations with the Americans that included selling off the NHS until it was leaked today.
In essence, they have managed to spread a load of lies, hide the truth about their dirty dealings and avoid being questioned about it in the hope that their supporters are naive enough to think "that couldn't possibly be true" - and they know that if the truth about any of it comes out before the election they'll be sunk. And as long as they keep running from the questions and burying the truth they have a very good chance of getting away with it.

Classic Trumpian "fake news" playbook.

Look on the bright side. If all what you say is true, (and there is indeed some truth to it), then don't you think its good that our politicians are finally relearning their trade ? 

gloswhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

xmiles wrote:Boris is too scared of Andrew Neil to agree an interview date:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-6pPfuYvmAhXMMMAKHWnUCUQQFjAKegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fnov%2F27%2Flabour-fears-boris-johnson-will-duck-andrew-neil-interview&usg=AOvVaw1ZC5iFkjLPl8Xv-ygyWjyc

This is a well used strategy that works well for Boris. He knows Neil will ask awkward questions and for the same reason that he banned the Daily Mirror reporters from getting tickets on the Tory "battle bus", Cummings has protected him from situations he can't handle.
Similarly Cummings has been orchestrating a misinformation campaign for which there is no comeback and notably no punishment.
The third leg of the table is burying damaging information such as the report into Russian involvement in Brexit and the last election which will be released on a busy news day (e.g. Queen's death or a terrorist attack) sometime in the future when it's impact will be watered down. They were trying to do the same thing with the details of the negotiations with the Americans that included selling off the NHS until it was leaked today.
In essence, they have managed to spread a load of lies, hide the truth about their dirty dealings and avoid being questioned about it in the hope that their supporters are naive enough to think "that couldn't possibly be true" - and they know that if the truth about any of it comes out before the election they'll be sunk. And as long as they keep running from the questions and burying the truth they have a very good chance of getting away with it.

Classic Trumpian "fake news" playbook.

Look on the bright side. If all what you say is true, (and there is indeed some truth to it), then don't you think its good that our politicians are finally relearning their trade ? 

Problem for me is that the goalposts have moved. Once upon a time, a politician who was caught lying or burying evidence would be fired or fall on his sword - now people will still vote for someone they know is a con man with a badly hidden agenda - and it's an emotional vote rather than a logical vote.

Boris will win the election and have a working majority with which to push through leaving the EU regardless of the consequences including selling off the NHS, depriving us of key services, pushing up the price of food, threatening millions of jobs and further increasing the gap between rich and poor and yet English nationalists will vote him in anyway.

I'm not sure whether the difference is due to a decline in moral standards or a decline in intelligence but we'll all be affected by it one way or another sooner or later.

Wanderlust, which way did you vote in the 2016 referendum?

Hi Nat. Good to see you back. Are you well ?

Wander, at this time, its all bollocks. Once the dust has settled, and the lying and muted razzmatazz has finished, we'll see what we've got, and in good British tradition, get on with it.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Wanderlust, which way did you vote in the 2016 referendum?

Hello stranger!
It may come as no surprise that I voted to be a member of the EU in both referendums.
In the first referendum the country was in crisis following the "Barber boom" during the Ted Heath years, the country was ready to collapse, inflation was rampant peaking at 20%, wages had to be capped and eventually we were bailed out by the IMF after Wilson had gone to them cap in hand. There was the oil crisis, GDP had declined by 3.9% during 73 to 75 and Heath had imposed the 3 day week.The vast majority of the electorate voted overwhelmingly to be in the EU and I was one of them. Thank God we did it or we'd be a third world country by now.
In the second referendum in 2016 I realised that 40 years of EU membership had given us a stable, vibrant economy, the cheapest food in Europe, security and massive buying power so I voted to stay in.

I was just reflecting on the first EU referendum and saw this which is interesting from a political party perspective. Harold Wilson was the first Prime Minister to allow a "free vote" for Cabinet and party members (an idea later embodied in law by Blair's government with the establishment of the Electoral Commission) so it didn't go down party lines and the "Yes" campaign was cross party and included Thatcher:

Yes campaign (Britain In Europe)

The "Yes" campaign was officially supported by Wilson and the majority of his cabinet, including the holders of the three other Great Offices of State: Denis Healey, the Chancellor of the Exchequer; James Callaghan, the Foreign Secretary; and Roy Jenkins, the Home Secretary.^{[citation needed]} It was also supported by the majority of the Conservative Party, including its newly elected leader Margaret Thatcher — 249 of 275 party members in Parliament supported staying in the EC in a free vote in April 1975^[12] — the Liberal Party, the Social Democratic and Labour Party, the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland and the Vanguard Unionist Progressive Party.

No campaign

Tony Benn, Secretary of State for Industry, was one of the senior figures in the No campaign.
The influential Conservative Edward du Cann said that "the Labour party is hopelessly and irrevocably split and muddled over this issue". The "No" campaign included the left wing of the Labour Party, including the cabinet ministers Michael Foot, Tony Benn, Peter Shore, Eric Varley, and Barbara Castle who during the campaign famously said "They lured us into the market with the mirage of the market miracle". Some Labour "No" supporters, including Varley, were on the right wing of the party, but most were from the left. The No campaign also included a large number of Labour backbenchers; upon the division on a pro-EC White Paper about the renegotiation, 148 Labour MPs opposed their own government's measure, whereas only 138 supported it and 32 abstained.^[4]
"Many Conservatives feel the European Community is not good for Britain ... The Conservative party is divided on it too", du Cann — head of the Conservatives' 1922 Committee — added, although there were far fewer Eurosceptic figures in the Parliamentary Conservative Party in 1975 than there would be during later debates on Europe, such as the accession to the Maastricht Treaty. Most of the Ulster Unionist Party were for "No" in the referendum, most prominently the former Conservative minister Enoch Powell, who after Benn was the second-most prominent anti-Marketeer in the campaign. Other parties supporting the "No" campaign included the Democratic Unionist Party, the Scottish National Party, Plaid Cymru, and parties outside Parliament including the National Front and the Communist Party of Great Britain.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Wanderlust, which way did you vote in the 2016 referendum?

This is what he posted unsolicited on Wanderers Ways back in March -

I, like half the Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/88073-in-or-out-again/?do=findComment&comment=1866787

How desperate is corbyn waving his real truth papers in the air it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

gloswhite wrote: Once the dust has settled, and the lying and muted razzmatazz has finished, we'll see what we've got, and in good British tradition, get on with it.

We'll have to mate.

Sluffy wrote:This is what he posted unsolicited on Wanderers Ways back in March -

I, like half the Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/88073-in-or-out-again/?do=findComment&comment=1866787

This was the point I was making.

Next we'll find out xmiles voted Tory.

wanderlust wrote:

gloswhite wrote: Once the dust has settled, and the lying and muted razzmatazz has finished, we'll see what we've got, and in good British tradition, get on with it.

We'll have to mate.

Wander...Surely needs a comma between "to" and "mate"......otherwise most unfortunate double meaning!!

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Sluffy wrote:This is what he posted unsolicited on Wanderers Ways back in March -

I, like half the Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/88073-in-or-out-again/?do=findComment&comment=1866787

This was the point I was making.

Next we'll find out xmiles voted Tory.

Rest assured Nat I have never voted Tory and never will.