Happy Brexit Day!

Its been put off for 11 months Nat. You'd better start hoarding them.

gloswhite wrote:Typical BBC bias. They don't have the stage to show their opposition to Brexit anymore, so are standing on the sidelines taking pot-shots where they can. Our national broadcasting company, disgraceful, as ever.

You really shouldn't believe every lie the Tories come up with glos. The BBC is not biased against brexiteers or the Tories. They are far too frightened of the Tories.

I have asked you before for evidence of this imaginary bias but you declined to provide any.

gloswhite wrote:I think there are different points to this foreign intervention thing. Many didn't want foreigners allowed into the UK as they blamed many for losing jobs, etc, when it was a joint problem in that many unskilled people came into the UK, with the infrastructure incapable of such overloading. This was the fault of open doors, and bad planning, as well as the lack of resources from the Government.

Again where is the evidence for this quite ludicrous claim? Immigrants from the EU were net contributors to our economy not a drain on resources. As usual basic facts are toxic to brexiteer delusions.

Thanks Glos. My question was more based around the fact that the EU’s ‘control’ and interference with us was in reality no more than common rules and regulations to maintain standards across the Eurozone and unblock barriers to trade.

Any trade deal with say the USA would likely involve similar common standards/regulations.

So would that not be just as unpalatable to Brexiteers?

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I think there are different points to this foreign intervention thing. Many didn't want foreigners allowed into the UK as they blamed many for losing jobs, etc, when it was a joint problem in that many unskilled people came into the UK, with the infrastructure incapable of such overloading. This was the fault of open doors, and bad planning, as well as the lack of resources from the Government.

Again where is the evidence for this quite ludicrous claim? Immigrants from the EU were net contributors to our economy not a drain on resources. As usual basic facts are toxic to brexiteer delusions.

Quite ludicrous claim ?  Stop reading newspapers for your evidence, and watch the people on television on the east coast of the country who have so many immigrants that they are in despair .  
The evidence is there XM, just stop focusing on anti Brexit rants.

That’s a bit unfair Glos, the evidence shows a net positive impact from immigration -

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK. European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

Blame the government for how they then use that income, that’s the issue not the immigrants.


https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

T.R.O.Y wrote:Thanks Glos. My question was more based around the fact that the EU’s ‘control’ and interference with us was in reality no more than common rules and regulations to maintain standards across the Eurozone and unblock barriers to trade.

Any trade deal with say the USA would likely involve similar common standards/regulations.

So would that not be just as unpalatable to Brexiteers?

Agreed, but as time went on rules were introduced, I feel, that affected all aspects of membership, transforming  what was the EFTA, and EEC to the current EU. These changes affected all the members, and were, generally speaking, run by France and Germany, for no reason other than they were the strongest financially. When, over time, talk turned to a European army, etc., I personally thought that we were not only too tightly bound up in the European experiment, but the way forward was looking quite bleak to us remaining as an independent sovereign state. (Looking at the current situation, I see that I'm not the only one who thought this way).
We now go back to negotiate with the same people  whose chosen form of government we did not agree with, so its only those rules and standards you mention that will enable us to work towards any resolution. I personally don't see it as unpalatable, but some will, although I'm sure it will be the minority. Hopefully, common sense will prevail.

T.R.O.Y wrote:That’s a bit unfair Glos, the evidence shows a net positive impact from immigration -

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK. European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

Blame the government for how they then use that income, that’s the issue not the immigrants.


https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

Agree with the net figure, costs, etc, but, again, look at those communities to the East of the country. I didn't make it up, and they are suffering.  I'm not going down the immigrant issue argument, but why would people come to this , or any country, knowing they don't have the basics for a stable family life?

Deleted the last bit of my last post by accident. Should also have said:

These people have no option other than to impose themselves on a lifestyle and infrastructure that wasn't prepared for them, and couldn't cope in such a short time. I don't believe anyone was in a position to handle the rapidity of the changes, but having said that what I stated was correct.

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I think there are different points to this foreign intervention thing. Many didn't want foreigners allowed into the UK as they blamed many for losing jobs, etc, when it was a joint problem in that many unskilled people came into the UK, with the infrastructure incapable of such overloading. This was the fault of open doors, and bad planning, as well as the lack of resources from the Government.

Again where is the evidence for this quite ludicrous claim? Immigrants from the EU were net contributors to our economy not a drain on resources. As usual basic facts are toxic to brexiteer delusions.

Quite ludicrous claim ?  Stop reading newspapers for your evidence, and watch the people on television on the east coast of the country who have so many immigrants that they are in despair .  
The evidence is there XM, just stop focusing on anti Brexit rants.

So your "evidence" is just some random opinions voiced by brexiteers and you ignore facts that you don't like? How very brexiteer of you. You are the person believing rants rather than real evidence. Try actually looking at facts rather than prejudices glos.

gloswhite wrote:Deleted the last bit of my last post by accident. Should also have said:

These people have no option other than to impose themselves on a lifestyle and infrastructure that wasn't prepared for them, and couldn't cope in such a short time. I don't believe anyone was in a position to handle the rapidity of the changes, but having said that what I stated was correct.

No it wasn't correct. You have nothing to support this except the opinions of some random people. Opinions are not facts.

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:That’s a bit unfair Glos, the evidence shows a net positive impact from immigration -

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK. European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

Blame the government for how they then use that income, that’s the issue not the immigrants.


https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

Agree with the net figure, costs, etc, but, again, look at those communities to the East of the country. I didn't make it up, and they are suffering.  I'm not going down the immigrant issue argument, but why would people come to this , or any country, knowing they don't have the basics for a stable family life?

So I live in the East of the country in an agricultural area where many of the low paid jobs e.g. agricultural workers are done by immigrants. In Norfolk there is a Portuguese community of around 30,000 who have been coming here for the last 100 years to work in the fields seasonally and many have settled. They do the shittest jobs that British kids have absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing. They work ridiculous hours for minimum wage and that's what keeps food prices down and farmers in business. Those that have settled have fully integrated and their (British) kids are no different from any other. However there is a plague of poor English families in places like Great Yarmouth and the coastal areas of Suffolk who haven't worked for generations, have huge problems with drink and drugs, live off benefits and use immigration as an excuse. I used to work with helping kids into employment and will never forget one kid I hooked up with a major employer who in interview said he wanted the apprenticeship because "nobody in his family has ever worked" - which turned out to be 23 adults.
There is no doubt that the prejudice is rampant in the East, but the real problem is that the level of benefits makes it not worthwhile doing the low paid hard labouring jobs available to the unskilled/uneducated available in the area - in their minds at least. Who the hell would want to work 50 hours a week picking in the fields for an extra £20 a week when you can sign on, watch telly and drink ridiculously cheap booze all day instead?
They aren't suffering - they are choosing a lifestyle and trying to justify it with racism.

wanderlust wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:That’s a bit unfair Glos, the evidence shows a net positive impact from immigration -

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK. European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

Blame the government for how they then use that income, that’s the issue not the immigrants.


https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

Agree with the net figure, costs, etc, but, again, look at those communities to the East of the country. I didn't make it up, and they are suffering.  I'm not going down the immigrant issue argument, but why would people come to this , or any country, knowing they don't have the basics for a stable family life?

So I live in the East of the country in an agricultural area where many of the low paid jobs e.g. agricultural workers are done by immigrants. In Norfolk there is a Portuguese community of around 30,000 who have been coming here for the last 100 years to work in the fields seasonally and many have settled. They do the shittest jobs that British kids have absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing. They work ridiculous hours for minimum wage and that's what keeps food prices down and farmers in business. Those that have settled have fully integrated and their (British) kids are no different from any other. However there is a plague of poor English families in places like Great Yarmouth and the coastal areas of Suffolk who haven't worked for generations, have huge problems with drink and drugs, live off benefits and use immigration as an excuse. I used to work with helping kids into employment and will never forget one kid I hooked up with a major employer who in interview said he wanted the apprenticeship because "nobody in his family has ever worked" - which turned out to be 23 adults.
There is no doubt that the prejudice is rampant in the East, but the real problem is that the level of benefits makes it not worthwhile doing the low paid hard labouring jobs available to the unskilled/uneducated available in the area - in their minds at least. Who the hell would want to work 50 hours a week picking in the fields for an extra £20 a week when you can sign on, watch telly and drink ridiculously cheap booze all day instead?
They aren't suffering - they are choosing a lifestyle and trying to justify it with racism.

Your last comment isn't true for all. Not according to many of the comments I've seen on TV, made by the residents, and backed up by video footage, (unless its the BBC of course.  )
I agree completely with 99% of your comments, and I'm not maligning anyone, as you are, (is that not a form of racism you are exhibiting?), but the large influx over a short period has most definitely affected the original residents of that area, which was my original point. (That includes 100 year old Portuguese people).

gloswhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:That’s a bit unfair Glos, the evidence shows a net positive impact from immigration -

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK. European migrants living in the UK contribute £2,300 more to public purse each year than the average adult, suggesting a net contribution of £78,000 to the exchequer over their lifespan in the UK.

Blame the government for how they then use that income, that’s the issue not the immigrants.


https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

Agree with the net figure, costs, etc, but, again, look at those communities to the East of the country. I didn't make it up, and they are suffering.  I'm not going down the immigrant issue argument, but why would people come to this , or any country, knowing they don't have the basics for a stable family life?

So I live in the East of the country in an agricultural area where many of the low paid jobs e.g. agricultural workers are done by immigrants. In Norfolk there is a Portuguese community of around 30,000 who have been coming here for the last 100 years to work in the fields seasonally and many have settled. They do the shittest jobs that British kids have absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing. They work ridiculous hours for minimum wage and that's what keeps food prices down and farmers in business. Those that have settled have fully integrated and their (British) kids are no different from any other. However there is a plague of poor English families in places like Great Yarmouth and the coastal areas of Suffolk who haven't worked for generations, have huge problems with drink and drugs, live off benefits and use immigration as an excuse. I used to work with helping kids into employment and will never forget one kid I hooked up with a major employer who in interview said he wanted the apprenticeship because "nobody in his family has ever worked" - which turned out to be 23 adults.
There is no doubt that the prejudice is rampant in the East, but the real problem is that the level of benefits makes it not worthwhile doing the low paid hard labouring jobs available to the unskilled/uneducated available in the area - in their minds at least. Who the hell would want to work 50 hours a week picking in the fields for an extra £20 a week when you can sign on, watch telly and drink ridiculously cheap booze all day instead?
They aren't suffering - they are choosing a lifestyle and trying to justify it with racism.

Your last comment isn't true for all. Not according to many of the comments I've seen on TV, made by the residents, and backed up by video footage, (unless its the BBC of course.  )
I agree completely with 99% of your comments, and I'm not maligning anyone, as you are, (is that not a form of racism you are exhibiting?), but the large influx over a short period has most definitely affected the original residents of that area, which was my original point. (That includes 100 year old Portuguese people).

I'm only going off what folk who are in that position tell me themselves Glos.
It should be pointed out that immigration into the East of England is no higher (arguably lower) than most parts of the country see here - maybe that's why there is less tolerance and understanding?

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I think there are different points to this foreign intervention thing. Many didn't want foreigners allowed into the UK as they blamed many for losing jobs, etc, when it was a joint problem in that many unskilled people came into the UK, with the infrastructure incapable of such overloading. This was the fault of open doors, and bad planning, as well as the lack of resources from the Government.

Again where is the evidence for this quite ludicrous claim? Immigrants from the EU were net contributors to our economy not a drain on resources. As usual basic facts are toxic to brexiteer delusions.

Quite ludicrous claim ?  Stop reading newspapers for your evidence, and watch the people on television on the east coast of the country who have so many immigrants that they are in despair .  
The evidence is there XM, just stop focusing on anti Brexit rants.

Is this an example of of their despair?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjctu3D87PnAhXzQEEAHaqHBV4Q0PADMAJ6BAgFEA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itv.com%2Fnews%2F2020-02-02%2Fbrexit-poster-demanding-tower-block-residents-speak-english-reported-to-police%2F&usg=AOvVaw25qH6Rk9507-MVEHuRnwiM

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I think there are different points to this foreign intervention thing. Many didn't want foreigners allowed into the UK as they blamed many for losing jobs, etc, when it was a joint problem in that many unskilled people came into the UK, with the infrastructure incapable of such overloading. This was the fault of open doors, and bad planning, as well as the lack of resources from the Government.

Again where is the evidence for this quite ludicrous claim? Immigrants from the EU were net contributors to our economy not a drain on resources. As usual basic facts are toxic to brexiteer delusions.

Quite ludicrous claim ?  Stop reading newspapers for your evidence, and watch the people on television on the east coast of the country who have so many immigrants that they are in despair .  
The evidence is there XM, just stop focusing on anti Brexit rants.

Is this an example of of their despair?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjctu3D87PnAhXzQEEAHaqHBV4Q0PADMAJ6BAgFEA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itv.com%2Fnews%2F2020-02-02%2Fbrexit-poster-demanding-tower-block-residents-speak-english-reported-to-police%2F&usg=AOvVaw25qH6Rk9507-MVEHuRnwiM

That's about par for the course in Norfolk. They can barely tolerate a Lancashire accent. Folk brought up in my town have a pathological hatred of anyone from the town 5 miles away and vice versa. Brexiteers to a man (they are still struggling with the idea that women have been allowed to vote)

And yet they're generally nice to the people who run the local Chinese takeaway and you could count the number of race related incidents in my small town this year on 6 fingers.

Just read an article that says that 30 million Brits - almost half the population - are descended from immigrants and 23% are from Irish descent. Does your family follow the German tradition of decorating a Christmas tree? In fact are you a Mick, a Wop or a Polack? Where do your great grandparents come from?

Whereas in Norfolk, everyone is descended from a neolithic hunter-gatherer and his sister who were very much in love.

I made that last bit up