Coronavirus - will we survive?

Just off to get some bleach to inject.

boltonbonce wrote:Just off to get some bleach to inject.

He really is a prized dickhead Bonce.

Disinfection knocks it out in a minute, so is there some way of maybe injecting disinfectant to cure #COVID19? pic.twitter.com/xTRJAKxMY7

— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) April 24, 2020

What a complete tosser. Leader of the free world ? Hhmmm.

gloswhite wrote:What a complete tosser. Leader of the free world ? Hhmmm.

I was laughing the other day at Pliny the Elder, who suggested that strapping  a foxes testicles to your head would be a good cure headaches, and that rubbing mouse droppings into the scalp could eradicate baldness, but Dopey Donald gives him a run for his money.

He does indeed, but with his cure, it would be a very short run.

I think we should inject the disinfectant into Donald first.

karlypants wrote:I think we should inject the disinfectant into Donald first.

karlypants wrote:I think we should inject the disinfectant into Donald first.

 He has as many braincells as a lab monkey anyway so should be ok.

boltonbonce wrote:Just off to get some bleach to inject.

To be fair to Trump I think people should listen to all he said leading up to and subsequent to the sound bite that's gone viral about injecting bleach because it's been taken completely out of context.

Make your minds up after watching the full three minutes - but to me he certainly wasn't telling anyone to do that and just judging him from tweets such as 'Jeremy Vines' 'edited' video clip above gives people the wrong impression of why he said and why he did.



I'm not a Trump apologist or anything, just people seem to take for gospel what they are told these days and never bother to see for themselves what all the fuss is about.


Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

"During Thursday's White House coronavirus task force briefing, an official presented the results of US government research that indicated coronavirus appeared to weaken more quickly when exposed to sunlight and heat.
The study also showed bleach could kill the virus in saliva or respiratory fluids within five minutes and isopropyl alcohol could kill it even more quickly.
William Bryan, acting head of the US Department of Homeland Security's Science and Technology Directorate, outlined the findings at the news conference.
While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump suggested further research in that area.
"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," the president said, turning to Dr Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, "and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.
"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued.
"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?
"So it'd be interesting to check that.".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

All Trump has to do is shut the fuck up and let people who know what they're talking about have the stage.
He won't allow that to happen, because it all has to be about him.

boltonbonce wrote:All Trump has to do is shut the fuck up and let people who know what they're talking about have the stage.
He won't allow that to happen, because it all has to be about him.

Well again to be fair he didn't elect himself President, firstly he won the Republican Party presidential nominee against this lot -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Republican_Party_presidential_candidates

Then beat Hilary Clinton, who herself had beaten Bernie Sanders and all this lot for the Democratic candidate -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_candidates

They all must have had a very good idea of what he was about long before he stood for president.

So I guess the American electorate got what the American electorate wanted.

We've got Brexit and Boris Johnson, so we've not got much to boast about ourselves really have we?

The point I was originally trying to make is that people seem incline these days to believe what they hear and follow the crowd.  

I guess its always sort of been that way, probably since the dawn of civilisation but it certainly seems to enormously increased in my opinion since the vast up take of social media - 'influencers' instantly saying how it is and others blindly following without thought.

Jeremy Vine who is clearly not a troll or a 'fake news' account posted the video clip above and everybody clearly jumped on the 'Trump's done it again' bandwagon - when, in this case at least, he hadn't.

It's just so incessant these days I find.

You all know my views about Iles, who IS an influencer to many, giving out his bias on what has now clearly been proven wrong, and Anderson being all but 'lynched' by the 'mob', who simply had no understanding of financial was going on and why but you probably don't want to hear that but look what has happened in just the last few weeks alone.

We had the Irish self proclaimed 'expert' on the virus tweeting away, who turned out to be a 'historian' with not a jot of medical knowledge herself who was roundly debunked by the real experts a few days later.

We had the top bloke at the Lancet who 'debunked' the government's blog statement, when if you were sad enough like I was, to read through his twitter line, really didn't debunk the blog at all and whom he himself was meekly accepting what the government was initially doing (even though he tried to later 'reinvent' himself by claiming the government had not taken the right course of action from the start and they should have done!

Now we have Vine ridiculing Trump in his tweet when in reality what Trump had said was completely taken out of context to what he actually was saying!

No wonder we've ended up with the likes of Trump, Boris and Brexit - as the saying goes we get what we deserve.

Moral of the post (if there is one to be had) - don't believe all you see on social media / in the papers / or whoever is in political opposition is trying to 'point score' when the government of the day is struggling with events beyond their ability to control themselves.  As often the real truth probably lies somewhere in between the two and it's often to be found if anyone cares to look for it.

However I know I'm much to late to change the way of the world as many/ most(?) people are stupid enough to believe and do anything on the internet these days - Tide Pod challenge for instance!!!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tide-pod-challenge-deaths-risk-teens-eat-detergent-videos-what-is-happening-a8156736.html

Social media certainly spreads rubbish faster these days but people have always believed stupid things.

Even if you can objectively prove something people will still refuse to believe it. People are extremely reluctant to admit they are wrong no matter what the evidence. To take just one non-contentious example: in a poll in 2003 more than half of Republican voters believed that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq.

I can recommend a very entertaining and informative book which covers this - Mistakes Were Made (but not by me) by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson.

xmiles wrote:Social media certainly spreads rubbish faster these days but people have always believed stupid things.

Even if you can objectively prove something people will still refuse to believe it. People are extremely reluctant to admit they are wrong no matter what the evidence. To take just one non-contentious example: in a poll in 2003 more than half of Republican voters believed that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq.

I can recommend a very entertaining and informative book which covers this - Mistakes Were Made (but not by me) by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson.

Thanks I'll have to get my hands on a copy.

"Ipsa scientia potestas est" ('knowledge itself is power') as they say.

It's always been easier to control the masses if they aren't educated.

Even in the twenty-first century women are denied all but basic schooling in many country's still - not even that in some! -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24379018

If you don't know/understand both sides of a story, then obviously you believe the one you've been told - especially if it is from someone you believe in.

A bit of a stretch I know to link Iles to Trump but the bottom line is that a majority of people have believed what they have told them and that's why Trump is the President and Iles is seen by his followers to be 'esteemed'!

Doesn't mean either one of them is right though - but their supporters will argue until the cows come home that they are - and that's because they don't know/aren't prepared to find out, anything better.

I've never sought power or control, so it's been easy for me to be as truthful as I know how to.  I'd be a very bad politician because of this 'defect' though.

It's all a game really, unfortunately people suffer from time to time because of it though.

Seems the Chinese have been telling porkies, looking as though the Conservatives have something to hide about Cummings and Sage, even the Bolton (Evening) News is flexing its 'power' by not allowing people to view it on line for free now - so we have to pay up instead - I honestly can't see that happening from many of us - me included (why should I want to when I only read about BWFC and the paper/Iles are clearly being kept at arms length by the club itself?  I've nothing personal against Iles (although people may think I do) and I wouldn't wish him to lose his job but in all honesty how come he's still drawing a salary when there is no football, the club doesn't talk to him and all he reports on these days are back issues of the newspaper from years gone by?  Wouldn't it have been better for the newspaper owners to put Iles (and others in the same boat) into furlough, and keep the internet paper free to read until all this is over rather than, lose the vast majority of its 'audience' - and consequently its vital 'click' rating that advertisers look for - and be potentially left with both no 'audience' AND no 'advertisers' wanting to place their adverts into the paper, when all this is finished whilst keeping the likes of Iles on full pay whilst he basically is twiddling his thumbs?

What I'm trying to say I guess is that 'power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

Keeping control of knowledge leads to keeping control of power.

Would Trump had been elected if the electorate were better educated?  Would Anderson have been so hated if people were knowledgably on how companies are run and regulated in law, rather than how they think they should be run?

It matters not though - the world is as it is.

Nothings going to change based on what I say or do on a tiny obscure forum like ours, I just try and explain the other side when I can. simply to show it is often not as black and white that people seem to think things are.

Hey ho!

Mind boggling.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/man-dies-drinking-cleaner-thought-21924827

Indeed.

Sluffy wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:All Trump has to do is shut the fuck up and let people who know what they're talking about have the stage.
He won't allow that to happen, because it all has to be about him.

Well again to be fair he didn't elect himself President, firstly he won the Republican Party presidential nominee against this lot -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Republican_Party_presidential_candidates

Then beat Hilary Clinton, who herself had beaten Bernie Sanders and all this lot for the Democratic candidate -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_candidates

They all must have had a very good idea of what he was about long before he stood for president.

So I guess the American electorate got what the American electorate wanted.

We've got Brexit and Boris Johnson, so we've not got much to boast about ourselves really have we?

The point I was originally trying to make is that people seem incline these days to believe what they hear and follow the crowd.  

I guess its always sort of been that way, probably since the dawn of civilisation but it certainly seems to enormously increased in my opinion since the vast up take of social media - 'influencers' instantly saying how it is and others blindly following without thought.

Jeremy Vine who is clearly not a troll or a 'fake news' account posted the video clip above and everybody clearly jumped on the 'Trump's done it again' bandwagon - when, in this case at least, he hadn't.

It's just so incessant these days I find.

You all know my views about Iles, who IS an influencer to many, giving out his bias on what has now clearly been proven wrong, and Anderson being all but 'lynched' by the 'mob', who simply had no understanding of financial was going on and why but you probably don't want to hear that but look what has happened in just the last few weeks alone.

We had the Irish self proclaimed 'expert' on the virus tweeting away, who turned out to be a 'historian' with not a jot of medical knowledge herself who was roundly debunked by the real experts a few days later.

We had the top bloke at the Lancet who 'debunked' the government's blog statement, when if you were sad enough like I was, to read through his twitter line, really didn't debunk the blog at all and whom he himself was meekly accepting what the government was initially doing (even though he tried to later 'reinvent' himself by claiming the government had not taken the right course of action from the start and they should have done!

Now we have Vine ridiculing Trump in his tweet when in reality what Trump had said was completely taken out of context to what he actually was saying!

No wonder we've ended up with the likes of Trump, Boris and Brexit - as the saying goes we get what we deserve.

Moral of the post (if there is one to be had) - don't believe all you see on social media / in the papers / or whoever is in political opposition is trying to 'point score' when the government of the day is struggling with events beyond their ability to control themselves.  As often the real truth probably lies somewhere in between the two and it's often to be found if anyone cares to look for it.

However I know I'm much to late to change the way of the world as many/ most(?) people are stupid enough to believe and do anything on the internet these days - Tide Pod challenge for instance!!!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tide-pod-challenge-deaths-risk-teens-eat-detergent-videos-what-is-happening-a8156736.html

True enough Sluffy... but Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. He won in the electoral college by winning 3 states by a total of 77,000 votes out of the 136 million cast.  His margin was 0.7 in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and 0.2 in Michigan.  As reported by Time:   


Over the course of the election, a wide-ranging group of Russians probed state voter databases for insecurities; hacked the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the Democratic National Committee; tried to hack the campaign of Sen. Marco Rubio and the Republican National Committee; released politically damaging information on the internet; spread propaganda on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram; staged rallies in Florida and Pennsylvania; set up meetings with members of the Trump campaign and its associates; and floated a business proposition for a skyscraper in Moscow to the Trump Organization... In addition to all this, the [url=https://www.burr.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/RussRptInstlmt1- ElecSec Findings,Recs2.pdf]Senate Intelligence Committee’s report[/url] said that in a small number of states, Russians “were able to gain access to restricted elements of election infrastructure” and “were in a position to, at a minimum, alter or delete voter registration data.”


True enough Sluffy, he won.  But he had help and a lot of luck.  Hillary was also a flawed candidate.  Trump represented change. It would be a reality host and con man, who would occupy the White House.  His flock have been fed Kool-Aid, and they follow him religiously. Today, they ignore science and traipse to the beaches of Republican states, endangering the rest of the States where "stay-at-home" is in effect.  Over 51,000 have died in this country and not a single sentence has been uttered by this President expressing remorse.  He has ridiculed the press on a daily basis, waited two months before acknowledging a crisis,  espoused debunked theories, and is now responsible for the deaths that are happening on a daily basis.  Perhaps with earlier intervention, many could have been avoided.  But Trump lies about his recorded statements.  His denial of the severity of the virus are chronicled:                                                                                                 
 On Feb. 27, at a White House meeting: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”   On March 7, standing next to President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil at Mar-a-Lago, his club in Palm Beach, Fla., when asked if he was concerned that the virus was spreading closer to Washington: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, I’m not. No, we’ve done a great job.” (At least three members of the Brazilian delegation and one Trump donor at Mar-a-Lago that weekend later tested positive for the virus.)   At a campaign rally on Feb. 10, Mr. Trump suggested that the virus would be gone by April, a claim he has frequently repeated, even though his advisers had warned him that much about the virus was still not known. During a campaign rally in South Carolina on Feb. 28, Mr. Trump accused Democrats and the news media of hysteria and unfairly criticizing his administration by engaging in what he said was a political “hoax.”On March 16, in the White House briefing room, warning that the outbreak would “wash” away this summer: “So it could be right in that period of time where it, I say, wash — it washes through. Other people don’t like that term. But where it washes through.”  On Tuesday, Mr. Trump spent much of a lengthy news conference praising his administration’s response to the pandemic, saying the only mistake his administration made had been a mismanagement of relationships with the news media.  When asked why he had suddenly adopted a somber and realistic tone about the virus on Tuesday, the president denied that he had changed his mind at all.


So Sluffy, he won... and all Americans have been losers through this crisis, much like our friends across the pond.  Those who have recovered have gruesome tales to tell.  Doctors are now examining damage the virus has done to the heart and the possibly that it is causing strokes.  Let science and experts tell us what to do.  Football takes a back seat to everything right now.  Please stay safe and be healthy.  

Thanks Obs, I was aware of some of that such as Trump not actually winning the combined popular total vote and Clinton being seen to be not that much better to him as a choice to vote for but that's the rules of the game and could equally have worked in Hilary's favour too.

There's all sorts of discussions that can be made about electoral reform - should it be mandatory for everybody to vote, should seats be awarded on proportional representation, even should voters be made to under go tests to see if they actually understand what they are voting for!

The bottom line, whether we like it or not, was that the rules were exactly the same for Clinton as it was for Trump, Corbyn as it was for Boris and Remain as it was from Brexit (Leave).

You simply can't moan that much if the one you wanted to win didn't, it simply is that for a number of reasons (and not all of them honourable by any means) that the electorate has spoken - they may even live to regret it but they have spoken non the less.

In my view it all revolves around knowledge being power.

If everyone had the same level of education, training and knowledge that you and I have, then would they have voted in the same way that they did?  

I somehow doubt it for the majority of them.

If we only received the same level of education, training and knowledge that most of those who voted for Trump etc, would we have done the same thing too...?

It is what it is I guess.

First rule of politics is to gain power, second rule of politics is retain power - Trump, Boris, Brexit played better/dirtier/smarter/more manipulative/call it what you will, than their opponents and that's why they are in power and the others are not.

If the Democrats had picked Sanders, if Labour hadn't elected Corbyn as leader, if Cameron hadn't called an unnecessary referendum, then things would possibly be a great deal differently but those things didn't happen.

The winners won, the losers lost, we've got to accept that and hope the right people win next time.

Keep safe yourself Obs, hope everything turns out fine for you and yours.

Same for everyone else in the 'Nuts' family too.

Something I saw last week that I found very informative.

It goes on a bit but well worth a listen.

You are quite right that if people were better educated they might vote differently. This survey by YouGov of the 2019 general election voters is very interesting. The worse your education the more likely you are to vote Tory.

GSCE or below: 25% voted Labour; 58% voted Tory
Degree or above: 43% voted Labour; 29% voted Tory.

I don't see much prospect of things changing for the better however.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election

xmiles wrote:You are quite right that if people were better educated they might vote differently. This survey by YouGov of the 2019 general election voters is very interesting. The worse your education the more likely you are to vote Tory.

GSCE or below: 25% voted Labour; 58% voted Tory
Degree or above: 43% voted Labour; 29% voted Tory.

I don't see much prospect of things changing for the better however.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election

To be fair I think you also need to corollate this information with age profiles of voters too.

I strongly suspect that most Conservative voters are of an age were higher/university education wasn't an option that many really had back then - myself for one (not that I vote for anyone, anyway).

I had to hold down a job and do all my further education and professional qualifications at night school or day release from work (on the understanding that I had to work extra hours without pay to make up the time lost whilst studying).

It's just how it was back then.