Black Lives Matter

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Oh right Germany should have left all the Nazi bits up then, shouldn’t judge them really products of their own time and all that. They just didn’t know any better.

Eh???

Didn't you read what I wrote?

Sluffy wrote:
People should be judged and held to account in their own times and not century's later...

The world fought a war against Hitler at that time.

He was judged by his peers at the time and half the world went on to fight a war to stop Nazism/fascism and dismantle then and there the icon's to that ideology.

The world at that time did hold Hitler and the Nazi's to account and did something about it.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

Personally think a race war is just a wet dream of the far right. Hardly been much in the way of counter protests have there? I think all reasonably minded people are on a similar track with this. Nobody condones violence, and fortunately there hasn’t been much. What’s good is that the message is resonating and conversations are developing as to what needs to change.

I doubt a race war is imminent TROY. There have been no counter-protests because the vast majority of people realise that the protesters are right in calling out racism. I wouldn't say nobody condones violence, and I think you may well see instances, hopefully few, when protesters frustration comes to the fore, and the opposite side responds.
This should be taken carefully, and silly demands shouldn't have knee-jerk reactions.
I see that the statue of Baden Powell was removed 'temporarily' in Brighton. What is the point of that I wonder?
Also, I wonder if Raffles statues, icons, etc, will be pulled down and destroyed in Singapore. Its all part of Imperialism, after all?

boltonbonce wrote:Jimmy Savile also made a lot of money for charity. Should we now replace the plaque on his old house in Scarborough? Was removing it trying to delete history?

I would have thought you'd be keeping a low profile on this thread after what you had posted recently, even if you had meant it in fun.

boltonbonce wrote:Nuts was much more fun when Breadman, Scott, AD, Magoo, Martin, Boggers, Nat et al, were running riot, and the loss of many of those mentioned has had a detrimental effect.
We've become po faced in the extreme, and it's not a good look. Racism, sexism, ageism, bring it on.
If horses are welcome, everyone should be.

Maybe now you get my point that you should be judged at the time and within the context existing at that time and not retrospectively when peoples perspective on what has been said or done, have changed.

Still think we should be making jokes about racism because the sites become too po faced?

Of course you don't and I doubt most who have done what they did at the time wouldn't go back and change things knowing what they know NOW to have been wrong or misguided, if they had the chance.  

You can't judge people century's after they did what they did - the world and its values have changed massively since then.

Please refresh my memory about what I posted in fun that was so offensive.

We can’t judge someone for killing 20,000 people. I know you argue for the sake of it, but this is a push even by your standards Sluffy.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:We can’t judge someone for killing 20,000 people. I know you argue for the sake of it, but this is a push even by your standards Sluffy.

You can judge who you like for whatever you want.

The slave trade of which we are talking about lasted for around 250 years, did you know the Arab slave trade centred from Africa to India including the middle east and central Asia lasted for a thousand years and only as recently as 1962 (within my lifetime) Saudi Arabia finally stopped slavery and released the estimated 300,000 people they had as slaves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_8.shtml

To put that into some perspective we, Britain, voted to abolish slavery in 1807, over 250 years earlier.

Colston was simply a product of his time, slap bang in the middle period of the 250 year Atlantic slave trade where it was seen to be normal and well practiced behaviour at the time.

Abhorrent now, but normal back then.

And you do make me laugh trying to flip that I'm the argumentative one, when we all know it's you!

Funny how you have been practically non existent on the forum when I've not been posting and straight on my case when I occasionally have.

I guess you mustn't be getting your kicks elsewhere then!

I can't be arsed with the trolling games anymore, I'm off again.

Toodle pip.

In out in out shake it all about 

Sluffy wrote:Funny how you have been practically non existent on the forum when I've not been posting and straight on my case when I occasionally have.

Could it be sluffy, KP & TROY are the same person?

Am I KP? Am I talking to myself?

boltonbonce wrote:Please refresh my memory about what I posted in fun that was so offensive.

Still waiting.

We all know you were being sarcastic Boncey, let him flounce off again.

Bonce I think the answer is at post 43 where you are quoted as saying:

Nuts was much more fun when Breadman, Scott, AD, Magoo, Martin, Boggers, Nat et al, were running riot, and the loss of many of those mentioned has had a detrimental effect.
We've become po faced in the extreme, and it's not a good look. Racism, sexism, ageism, bring it on.

Is conscience innate? Sluffy, please note:- If you do some research or have studied it at university, you find that opinion has long been divided, but a growing majority of researchers now believe that babies are born wth an innate sense of morality, and while parents can help develop a belief system in babies, they don't create one.

I have certainly seen research evidence that young infants have a sense of fairness, which you could argue is a sense of right and wrong. I don't know that that is the same thing as having a conscience though.

xmiles wrote:Bonce I think the answer is at post 43 where you are quoted as saying:

Nuts was much more fun when Breadman, Scott, AD, Magoo, Martin, Boggers, Nat et al, were running riot, and the loss of many of those mentioned has had a detrimental effect.
We've become po faced in the extreme, and it's not a good look. Racism, sexism, ageism, bring it on.

Don't see his problem with that. If anyone on here is racist, they should bring it to the table. You can't legislate it away, so let's talk about it. 
It should be open house. I worked with a man for ten years, who was active in the church, collected thousands for local charities, and was never openly racist or homophobic to anyone's face.
At work however, he seemed to come out of his shell, and I won't post the words he used, but they weren't pleasant.
My remonstrations were met with a weary smile, and a 'you're living in dreamland' attitude.
I'd have reported him to the boss, but he was the boss. He loved Poles though. He often threatened to get rid of me so he could employ another one.

Sluffy wrote:
Colston was simply a product of his time, slap bang in the middle period of the 250 year Atlantic slave trade where it was seen to be normal and well practiced behaviour at the time.

Okay so should he have a statue celebrating his life, in spite of causing so much suffering?

Yes or no will do on that one, I've made it easy for you.

Sluffy wrote:Funny how you have been practically non existent on the forum when I've not been posting and straight on my case when I occasionally have.

I like a good debate, I've made no secret of that. The fact you disagree with every view i have is bound to provoke me to post. As I've said the forum needs you, and clearly you need the forum. If you didn't you wouldn't be watching from afar and posting whenever the temptation gets too much.

So stop pretending otherwise with all this toodle pip rubbish.

Debate, my arse. 
Nobody debates stuff on here since the advent of Brexit. Whatever view is put up, is immediately shot down, followed by lots of links, and asking of questions that drill down to such minor points, that a sensible outcome is impossible.

gloswhite wrote:Debate, my arse. 
Nobody debates stuff on here since the advent of Brexit. Whatever view is put up, is immediately shot down, followed by lots of links, and asking of questions that drill down to such minor points, that a sensible outcome is impossible.

Debate is pretty much dead. Get the Countryside Alliance into a room with anti hunting groups and watch the  'debate'.
I guarantee the police will be involved within twenty minutes.
These days we seem to take our position, dig a trench, and fight it out to the death. I'm as guilty as anyone.
With Brexit, as Glos says, this fact was writ large.

gloswhite wrote:Debate, my arse. 
Nobody debates stuff on here since the advent of Brexit. Whatever view is put up, is immediately shot down, followed by lots of links, and asking of questions that drill down to such minor points, that a sensible outcome is impossible.

You’ve complained about being asked questions ever since I asked you why you thought Hilary Clinton was linked to drug dealers. Never understood why it annoyed you so much, seems a reasonable thing to ask to me.

To be honest I don’t get the issue either of you seem to have with how ‘debates’ on here tend to go - appreciate that probably says more about me than anything else though! 

If it is such an issue that seems to detract from your enjoyment though can you not just ignore the topics?

When was the last time you heard/saw someone admit that they were wrong and that they'd changed their opinion due to the strength of the opposing argument? Football fans are the worst for digging their heels in and will swear black is blue rather than lose face. Politicians run them close! 

For what it's worth, I think Troy, Bonce, xmiles and Norpig are interesting to read, and are fair-minded. That's not to say that others can't be excellent too, but those 4 are consistently worth logging in for imo.

(Ok....I'm ready to field some flak for this!)

okocha wrote:When was the last time you heard/saw someone admit that they were wrong and that they'd changed their opinion due to the strength of the opposing argument? Football fans are the worst for digging their heels in and will swear black is blue rather than lose face. Politicians run them close! 

For what it's worth, I think Troy, Bonce, xmiles and Norpig are interesting to read, and are fair-minded. That's not to say that others can't be excellent too, but those 4 are consistently worth logging in for imo.

(Ok....I'm ready to field some flak for this!)

Well said mate. Where do we mail the cheque? 
You're quite right though. Sometimes, heaven forbid, we might be wrong. And I hope, in such cases, we're man/woman enough to admit it, and, if necessary, say sorry.

'Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong'. (Jean-Jacques Rousseau).