Black Lives Matter

okocha wrote:When was the last time you heard/saw someone admit that they were wrong and that they'd changed their opinion due to the strength of the opposing argument? Football fans are the worst for digging their heels in and will swear black is blue rather than lose face. Politicians run them close! 

For what it's worth, I think Troy, Bonce, xmiles and Norpig are interesting to read, and are fair-minded. That's not to say that others can't be excellent too, but those 4 are consistently worth logging in for imo.

(Ok....I'm ready to field some flak for this!)

Thanks okocha.

I do try to base all my arguments on logic and reason but I know I have some fairly strong opinions about some matters.

Vic likes a debate.

A group of high-profile actors, including Kristen Bell, Stanley Tucci, and Aaron Paul, have been criticised after starring in an anti-racism PSA that has been deemed cringe-worthy.

The video, unveiled on Thursday (11 June), is titled “I Take Responsibility”.

In the clip, which comes after widespread protests against racism and police brutality, actors pledge to hold themselves accountable for “every unchecked moment”, “every not-so-funny joke”, “every unfair stereotype”, and other injustices.

The two-minute clip also features Sarah Paulson, Kesha, Justin Theroux, Debra Messing and Julianne Moore.

Many on social media have criticised the video for its tone, with some suggesting that it calls to mind the celebrity cover of John Lennon song “Imagine”, led by Wonder Woman star Gal Gadot, in March.



https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/i-take-responsibility-psa-video-kristen-bell-stanley-tucci-aaron-paul-reactions-a9561546.html?amp=1

BoltonTillIDie wrote:A group of high-profile actors, including Kristen Bell, Stanley Tucci, and Aaron Paul

I can honestly say that I haven't heard of any of those.

Have you not seen Breaking Bad (Aaron Paul)?

BoltonTillIDie wrote:Have you not seen Breaking Bad (Aaron Paul)?

No.

This particular episode of Fawlty Towers has been removed from UKTV. Personally I have no problem with it. Makes a good point about racism.

Yes this is something I find frustrating. Racism is clearly not condoned in Fawlty Towers. It is depicted as something ludicrous and reflects attitudes held at the time (and even now by some people).

It seems to have been removed because it might offend some people not because it is racist. There is far too much emphasis on not offending any body when the reality is that there is always somebody who will be offended - remember Mary Whitehouse or those who thought niggardly and brain storming were unacceptable terms?

Corporations are so scared to get caught on the wrong side of this they go over the top, then actions like this undermine the actual cause (systemic racism) and give the right-wing minor grievances they blow out of proportion. No doubt this is being framed as a left wing plot to crush British culture.

okocha wrote:When was the last time you heard/saw someone admit that they were wrong and that they'd changed their opinion due to the strength of the opposing argument? Football fans are the worst for digging their heels in and will swear black is blue rather than lose face. Politicians run them close! 

For what it's worth, I think Troy, Bonce, xmiles and Norpig are interesting to read, and are fair-minded. That's not to say that others can't be excellent too, but those 4 are consistently worth logging in for imo.

(Ok....I'm ready to field some flak for this!)

CREEP!!!!!

This is not helpful. When their mistake was pointed out to the organisers of the petition they said they still wanted the statue removed because "we should not celebrate colonisers".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53005223

The far right defending the cenotaph with nazi salutes today. Never underestimate just how thick these people are.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:The far right defending the cenotaph with nazi salutes today. Never underestimate just his thick these people are.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetically sad.

Quite how urinating on a memorial to Keith Palmer (the police officer killed in the Westminster terror attack in 2017) is protecting symbols of British history is beyond me.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/13/man-urinates-next-to-pc-keith-palmer-memorial-during-far-right-protest

gloswhite wrote:...people of colour are angry and frustrated, but they have to learn to engage, something they find very difficult...

People of colour have been systematically oppressed for hundreds of years and you are suggesting we "learn to engage" with the oppressors. The difficulty with this situation is that POC are asking those who enjoy privilege and power over them to stop abusing same. 
Who willingly gives up privilege and power? 

Completely agree Keegan, and I have to say that its good to see that the BLM protests have toned down the violence after the first outing. Common sense taking the lead.

Did you know that there is video of a white fellow wearing a mask and gloves, using a hammer to break the windows of store where BLM protesters were? His face wasn't completely covered, so his eyes and forehead were visible. His ex-wife identified him as a Police Officer, but his superiors denied it was him. The challenge is far greater than you might imagine!

What I don't get, and I'm walking on egg shells so as to try to not offend anyone, is that the vast number of cases we see over here from America is the police only being there in the first place because the people ending up dying were apparently committing offences in the first place.

George Floyd was allegedly using counterfeit money, Michael Brown (Ferguson riots) was apparently shoplifting, Eric Gardner was illegally selling loose cigarettes and now Rayshard Brooks was driving under the influence and fell asleep at the wheel!

Now obviously non of those offences merited dying for and clearly some of the police officers knowingly and deliberately went far in excess of what was required but the police were there for a reason and that all the people who died/were killed, seemingly resisted arrest (and in Brown's case attacked the officer).

I'm certainly not in a position to judge but it seems to me that if there was no crime being committed in the first place, the police wouldn't have been involved and no one would have died that day.

Or am I looking at things too simplistically?

Sluffy wrote:What I don't get, and I'm walking on egg shells so as to try to not offend anyone, is that the vast number of cases we see over here from America is the police only being there in the first place because the people ending up dying were apparently committing offences in the first place.

George Floyd was allegedly using counterfeit money, Michael Brown (Ferguson riots) was apparently shoplifting, Eric Gardner was illegally selling loose cigarettes and now Rayshard Brooks was driving under the influence and fell asleep at the wheel!

Now obviously non of those offences merited dying for and clearly some of the police officers knowingly and deliberately went far in excess of what was required but the police were there for a reason and that all the people who died/were killed, seemingly resisted arrest (and in Brown's case attacked the officer).

I'm certainly not in a position to judge but it seems to me that if there was no crime being committed in the first place, the police wouldn't have been involved and no one would have died that day.

Or am I looking at things too simplistically?

For starters, George Floyd was found to have tendered a valid bill - not counterfeit. The problem, Sluff, is that in America black people are assumed to have committed an offense and that is how the Police treat them. I saw an experiment where a white guy was standing on the side of a road in a town where open carry is permitted, with a semi-automatic rifle. Nobody paid him any mind. After maybe 30 mins, a black man took his place with the same rifle. Ten minutes later he was lying face down on the ground with maybe 6 Police cars with sirens on and who knows how many officers. Despite being told that it was a legal weapon and the purpose was to determine if he would have been treated differently, the officers insisted on taking him in for questioning. Just today, I saw another incident where an Amazon driver was thrown facedown on the ground and cuffed for "parking backwards". Young black dude parked his truck, got a parcel and delivered it, but before he could get into the truck, a white police officer pounced, threw him down and cuffed him and called for backup. These things would never happen to you in the States and must seem like a mesed up fairy tale, but I could visit and my Jamaican accent gets me roughed up and cuffed, or worse. These officers choked Floyd to death over alleged forgery, but a white man went into a black church and murdered ten people in cold blood and was given a bullet proof vest as he was escorted from the church in case of reprisals, and they stopped for a burger on the way to the station. Look it up if you think I'm lying.

It is so bad that some black men flee at the sight of policemen and even that doesn't help - a older black male (late 50's early 60's, I'd bet) was riding a bicycle and a white cop called out to him to stop. Dude tried to ride away and got shot in the back and died. He was unarmed, had nothing illegal, not at all close to the cop, but the cop "feared for his life" and killed him. No charges filed, cop still serving and protecting to this day. Remind me to tell you about Darren Rainey who was imprisoned on drug abuse charges and officers thought it would be fun to boil him to death in a shower. No charges filed against them. And so on, and so on, and so on. Look up Tamir Rice who wasn't yet 13 when he was killed. No charges.

A homeless black woman lied about her address in order to get her child into a better school (give the child a better chance at life, etc) and was sent to prison for 5 years. A rich white woman lied and paid a bribe to get her child into a prestigious university and was sentenced to 14 months (of course good behaviour comes into play, so six months tops).