Coronavirus - will we survive?

gloswhite wrote:I agree, and if it was being developed in a lab, it was obviously being looked at as a weapon. Makes you wonder not where the world is going, but where it will end.

And if the world's brilliant scientists had not been able to create effective vaccines, mankind might not have survived this pandemic, given the variants' ability to spread the viruses. Happy thought!

wanderlust wrote:Because I'm a volunteer I've been asked to train up to be a vaccinator - I suspect it's a 10 minute course as we won't have to find a vein

You may have to give Sluffy a small prick.

okocha wrote:
And if the world's brilliant scientists had not been able to create effective vaccines, mankind might not have survived this pandemic, given the variants' ability to spread the viruses. Happy thought!

When I was in the Army, I was an NBC instructor, (Nuclear, Biological, and chemical).
Nuclear wasn't so bad, as I taught that when you saw, felt, or heard the mushroom/blast, you simply put your head between your knees, and kissed your arse goodbye. However, chemical and biological weapons are very nasty things to be letting loose.

gloswhite and others. It's possible but very unlikely that Co-Vid was developed in a lab. It's far more likely, in fact all but mathematically certain that it's a natural mutation of something like either H5N1 (Bird Flu) or another SARS variant. The reason I say this is partly down to its communicability and the mortality rates of those infected. As awful as both those numbers are they are a long way from what a 'designed' virus could do.

In point of fact bio-weapons WERE designed at places like Porton Down and allegedly in Area 51 (the 'alien' theory was deliberately encouraged by the US military to cover what they were really doing there besides highly advanced aviation/space defence work) but NOT for use in actual war. Porton Down had highly advanced variants of anthrax among other things but in tiny amounts that were used to test the antidotes and/or vaccines they were trying to develop for the event we were attacked from elsewhere. While that may sound like a mad theory the fact is a really, REALLY nasty viral weapon wouldn't actually be all that expensive or difficult to make. The UK military has regularly played 'war games' in which we are attacked by a bio weapon and to design a decent defence it's sometimes necessary to think like the likely attacker.

If C0-Vid19 had been a real bio weapon then why would we have heard about it as fast as we did? If you really want to make a bio weapon work then the best way would be to have say thirty people go to thirty major population centres and release it simultaneously. Just imagine what would have happened if Covid had been deliberately released in the airport of every major western capital city on the same day? Or how about using the major train stations or docks?

Also the very fact we were able to develop an effective vaccine so fast suggests to me at least that it was NOT man-made since a resistance to that sort of effort would be relatively easy to build in. Nope, as much as people want to believe this has to be deliberate I'm afraid every piece of credible evidence so far says it's just not. It's a very nasty variant of an existing virus similar to the Spanish Flu that ravaged most of the world just over a century ago or the Black Plague of the 14th century. Thankfully modern medicine, communications and of course brilliant work by awesome medical personnel has kept the death toll far lower than it would otherwise have been.

gloswhite wrote:I agree, and if it was being developed in a lab, it was obviously being looked at as a weapon. Makes you wonder not where the world is going, but where it will end.

The thinking Glos goes something like this...

It has always been known that sooner or later a virus would crossover from Animals to human beings, it has happened a number of times in our history.  Most that have, have been harmless to us but some, such as SARS have been lethal.

To this end a number of country's throughout the world have been attempting to 'create' these viruses in the labs, in order to create vaccines to them to have available, as and when the inevitable finally occurs naturally.

China, where their culture is to live close to and eat wild animals that us in the western world would consider barbaric and revolting, facilitated naturally the crossover of viruses from animals to humans of both SARS and Bird Flu in the last twenty or so years.

The state took the decision that they wanted show the world that they were a 'super power' in medicine by leading the world in such virus/vaccine research - and also that in every likelihood the next 'new' virus outbreak would probably originate from within its own boarders because of the culture of the nation and the beliefs of the people dating back century's/millenniums.

Apparently it is known that scientists from the Wuhan Laboratory scoured China/the world to seek animals with viruses (which they themselves are naturally immune to) to collect samples to grow and experiment on, in order, as I've said above, to develop antidots/vaccines to.

The belief is that one worker at the laboratory accidentally got infected.

The worker (who is believed to have been a woman working with this particular virus) then took it into the community, where it spread.

There is no belief that the virus was 'manufactured' as such, nor was intended as a biological weapon, but just a scientist researching and working on the virus taken from a specific bat colony (in China) to 'show the world' how clever China had become in medicine, unfortunately catching it somehow and taking it into the community where it spread and turned into the pandemic it became.

When I first read all this I had no idea just how close this Lab was to the place where Covid was first known to the world - as the video shows they are just across the road to each other!

One would have thought that anyone working of such virus research would do so in a laboratory isolated well away from the public and NOT in the middle of a city with a population of 11.08 million people (as of 2018).

It's pretty clear that the Chinese authority knows exactly what happened but will never admit to it.

That's my understanding of the events anyway.

Gentlemen, firstly, let me say thank you for your comments, and let me say quite clearly that I do believe there is a possibility that the virus was being investigated as a possible weapon, however I do go along with the 'wet market' explanation. Peter, my training took me to a place called Old Sarum, just down the road from Porton, and we were given some very interesting information, some of it from a lecturer in Porton, and I can tell you that it is a very murky world, and naivety can also be used as a weapon. I'm certain that in the 35 years since I did my training things have moved 'forward' considerably.
After using Mustard gas to kill people during the first world war, things developed so that the approach changed from killing people to incapacitating them, as this would use up more of the enemies resources, and slow them down considerably, hence more emphasis on chemical weapons for the battlefield, and biological for the wider population. Of course nuclear weapons combines both.
You don't/can't develop vaccines or antidotes unless you know the behaviours of the original source, and such things are made. 
My point is to never rule anything out.

I see Captain Tom is being trolled on social media. Disgusting, but par for the course these days.

However, why on earth would you take a 100 year old man to Barbados in the midst of a pandemic?

It would be a risk in normal times, let alone now. I just don't understand the thinking behind it.

boltonbonce wrote:I see Captain Tom is being trolled on social media. Disgusting, but par for the course these days.

However, why on earth would you take a 100 year old man to Barbados in the midst of a pandemic?

It would be a risk in normal times, let alone now. I just don't understand the thinking behind it.

Maybe it was the last thing to cross off on his bucket list?

Shame that yet again social media is showing its worst side but that is the norm for society these days.

He should not have gone but then again if he didn't expect to see next Christmas then you can understand why he did.

As I've said elsewhere we've all bent the rules over the last year, I don't doubt that many/all of those trolling Tom have bent/broken the rules too.

boltonbonce wrote:I see Captain Tom is being trolled on social media. Disgusting, but par for the course these days.

However, why on earth would you take a 100 year old man to Barbados in the midst of a pandemic?

It would be a risk in normal times, let alone now. I just don't understand the thinking behind it.

It was on his personal 'bucket list' and given his age it was very unlikely he'd be around to do it after the virus had been completely beaten. Personally, I think it was a very nice gesture to an extraordinary man and given all the precautions taken both before and during the trip I can't see the harm in it. Let's face it, Sir Tom damned well deserved it and in light of his sad passing I think it's a wonderful thing that he got to go after all.

As to the trolls, they really shouldn't worry since Co-Vid seems to be harmful to human beings which they clearly are not.

gloswhite wrote:Gentlemen, firstly, let me say thank you for your comments, and let me say quite clearly that I do believe there is a possibility that the virus was being investigated as a possible weapon, however I do go along with the 'wet market' explanation. Peter, my training took me to a place called Old Sarum, just down the road from Porton, and we were given some very interesting information, some of it from a lecturer in Porton, and I can tell you that it is a very murky world, and naivety can also be used as a weapon. I'm certain that in the 35 years since I did my training things have moved 'forward' considerably.
After using Mustard gas to kill people during the first world war, things developed so that the approach changed from killing people to incapacitating them, as this would use up more of the enemies resources, and slow them down considerably, hence more emphasis on chemical weapons for the battlefield, and biological for the wider population. Of course nuclear weapons combines both.
You don't/can't develop vaccines or antidotes unless you know the behaviours of the original source, and such things are made. 
My point is to never rule anything out.

Add to that the use of media to control the narrative- of which numerous examples have come to light (tempted to use the b word here ) - and it’s difficult to take anything at face value although most folk do. Some folk even take Companies House returns as being truly representative of reality FFS

Scottish government has taken a lead in compulsory isolation for all people arriving in the U.K. from abroad which although a year too late - even countries like Vietnam started this last year - is at least providing a front line against new Covid variants.

Tories still too weak to do it.

Yeah, but what do international travelers want to go to Scotland for ?   Had to post this quickly as I would get a 'doin' if she saw it.

With 21000 people arriving every day, why won’t the tories clamp down on arrivals from Europe, the USA, China and Russia for example ?

I think we all know the real reason behind their arbitrary Policies.

We do?

FOR NORPIG's ATTENTION

I presume you've heard about this?

Arthritis drug tocilizumab cuts deaths from Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56024772

Sluffy wrote:FOR NORPIG's ATTENTION

I presume you've heard about this?

Arthritis drug tocilizumab cuts deaths from Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56024772

 yes fully aware thanks, it's being restricted by the DHSC as usage has shot up recently but we seem to be managing.

gloswhite wrote:We do?

Have you seen the Red List Glos?

What percentage of our global trade do you reckon they collectively represent?
This.

Not sure about this myself?

Posted at 13:08
'Crowded beaches not linked to Covid outbreaks'



There has never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a crowded beach, MPs have heard.

Mark Woolhouse, professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, told the Science and Technology Committee: "Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches, and there was an outcry about this.

"There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches - there's never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever, anywhere in the world, to the best of my knowledge."

He says that mass gatherings - such as a horse racing event - are an exception because they do not involve social distancing and there are "pinch points" like travel and refreshment facilities.

"I think we do have to understand where the risks are so that we can do as much as possible safely," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56095941


I would have thought there would be just as many breaches of social distancing and pinch points at places like toilets, cafe's along the beach, multi households meeting up outside their bubbles etc.

The thing I would have said that makes horse racing events different to beaches is the shouting and gatheing together towards the end of each race, with evidence from outbreaks linked to singing and choirs being one of the cause of spreading the virus.

So schools are are expected to reopen on 8th March and grassroots football due to be back on 29th March which are both good for my lad as he's hardly set foot out of the house for weeks.

Norpig wrote:So schools are are expected to reopen on 8th March and grassroots football due to be back on 29th March which are both good for my lad as he's hardly set foot out of the house for weeks.

Not too sure about schools going back but I’m delighted that footie is back on - getting my jab on Sunday so will feel more confident about kicking the young uns.

Still feel that the government should go with milestones rather than specific dates though. Makes much more sense to say we’ll do this when e.g. the infection rate falls below x and y number of people have been jabbed - I’m sure some bright spark could work out a schedule that folk can understand and are motivated to achieve. By gradually opening freedoms as milestones are reached and maintained it gives the public an incentive to behave responsibly rather than say we’re doing it on specific dates regardless. And folk will know that the freedoms will be removed if we slip back.