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Coronavirus - will we survive?

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781Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 01 2021, 15:34

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@gloswhite wrote:I agree, and if it was being developed in a lab, it was obviously being looked at as a weapon. Makes you wonder not where the world is going, but where it will end.
And if the world's brilliant scientists had not been able to create effective vaccines, mankind might not have survived this pandemic, given the variants' ability to spread the viruses. Happy thought!

782Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 01 2021, 16:45

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@wanderlust wrote:Because I'm a volunteer I've been asked to train up to be a vaccinator - I suspect it's a 10 minute course as we won't have to find a vein Smile
You may have to give Sluffy a small prick.

783Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 01 2021, 19:51

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@okocha wrote:
And if the world's brilliant scientists had not been able to create effective vaccines, mankind might not have survived this pandemic, given the variants' ability to spread the viruses. Happy thought!
When I was in the Army, I was an NBC instructor, (Nuclear, Biological, and chemical).
Nuclear wasn't so bad, as I taught that when you saw, felt, or heard the mushroom/blast, you simply put your head between your knees, and kissed your arse goodbye. However, chemical and biological weapons are very nasty things to be letting loose.

784Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 01 2021, 20:08

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite and others. It's possible but very unlikely that Co-Vid was developed in a lab. It's far more likely, in fact all but mathematically certain that it's a natural mutation of something like either H5N1 (Bird Flu) or another SARS variant. The reason I say this is partly down to its communicability and the mortality rates of those infected. As awful as both those numbers are they are a long way from what a 'designed' virus could do.

In point of fact bio-weapons WERE designed at places like Porton Down and allegedly in Area 51 (the 'alien' theory was deliberately encouraged by the US military to cover what they were really doing there besides highly advanced aviation/space defence work) but NOT for use in actual war. Porton Down had highly advanced variants of anthrax among other things but in tiny amounts that were used to test the antidotes and/or vaccines they were trying to develop for the event we were attacked from elsewhere. While that may sound like a mad theory the fact is a really, REALLY nasty viral weapon wouldn't actually be all that expensive or difficult to make. The UK military has regularly played 'war games' in which we are attacked by a bio weapon and to design a decent defence it's sometimes necessary to think like the likely attacker.

If C0-Vid19 had been a real bio weapon then why would we have heard about it as fast as we did? If you really want to make a bio weapon work then the best way would be to have say thirty people go to thirty major population centres and release it simultaneously. Just imagine what would have happened if Covid had been deliberately released in the airport of every major western capital city on the same day? Or how about using the major train stations or docks?

Also the very fact we were able to develop an effective vaccine so fast suggests to me at least that it was NOT man-made since a resistance to that sort of effort would be relatively easy to build in. Nope, as much as people want to believe this has to be deliberate I'm afraid every piece of credible evidence so far says it's just not. It's a very nasty variant of an existing virus similar to the Spanish Flu that ravaged most of the world just over a century ago or the Black Plague of the 14th century. Thankfully modern medicine, communications and of course brilliant work by awesome medical personnel has kept the death toll far lower than it would otherwise have been.

785Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 01 2021, 22:59

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@gloswhite wrote:I agree, and if it was being developed in a lab, it was obviously being looked at as a weapon. Makes you wonder not where the world is going, but where it will end.

The thinking Glos goes something like this...

It has always been known that sooner or later a virus would crossover from Animals to human beings, it has happened a number of times in our history.  Most that have, have been harmless to us but some, such as SARS have been lethal.

To this end a number of country's throughout the world have been attempting to 'create' these viruses in the labs, in order to create vaccines to them to have available, as and when the inevitable finally occurs naturally.

China, where their culture is to live close to and eat wild animals that us in the western world would consider barbaric and revolting, facilitated naturally the crossover of viruses from animals to humans of both SARS and Bird Flu in the last twenty or so years.

The state took the decision that they wanted show the world that they were a 'super power' in medicine by leading the world in such virus/vaccine research - and also that in every likelihood the next 'new' virus outbreak would probably originate from within its own boarders because of the culture of the nation and the beliefs of the people dating back century's/millenniums.

Apparently it is known that scientists from the Wuhan Laboratory scoured China/the world to seek animals with viruses (which they themselves are naturally immune to) to collect samples to grow and experiment on, in order, as I've said above, to develop antidots/vaccines to.

The belief is that one worker at the laboratory accidentally got infected.

The worker (who is believed to have been a woman working with this particular virus) then took it into the community, where it spread.

There is no belief that the virus was 'manufactured' as such, nor was intended as a biological weapon, but just a scientist researching and working on the virus taken from a specific bat colony (in China) to 'show the world' how clever China had become in medicine, unfortunately catching it somehow and taking it into the community where it spread and turned into the pandemic it became.

When I first read all this I had no idea just how close this Lab was to the place where Covid was first known to the world - as the video shows they are just across the road to each other!

One would have thought that anyone working of such virus research would do so in a laboratory isolated well away from the public and NOT in the middle of a city with a population of 11.08 million people (as of 2018).

It's pretty clear that the Chinese authority knows exactly what happened but will never admit to it.

That's my understanding of the events anyway.

786Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Tue Feb 02 2021, 09:57

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Gentlemen, firstly, let me say thank you for your comments, and let me say quite clearly that I do believe there is a possibility that the virus was being investigated as a possible weapon, however I do go along with the 'wet market' explanation. Peter, my training took me to a place called Old Sarum, just down the road from Porton, and we were given some very interesting information, some of it from a lecturer in Porton, and I can tell you that it is a very murky world, and naivety can also be used as a weapon. I'm certain that in the 35 years since I did my training things have moved 'forward' considerably.
After using Mustard gas to kill people during the first world war, things developed so that the approach changed from killing people to incapacitating them, as this would use up more of the enemies resources, and slow them down considerably, hence more emphasis on chemical weapons for the battlefield, and biological for the wider population. Of course nuclear weapons combines both.
You don't/can't develop vaccines or antidotes unless you know the behaviours of the original source, and such things are made. 
My point is to never rule anything out.

787Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Tue Feb 02 2021, 10:30

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I see Captain Tom is being trolled on social media. Disgusting, but par for the course these days.

However, why on earth would you take a 100 year old man to Barbados in the midst of a pandemic?

It would be a risk in normal times, let alone now. I just don't understand the thinking behind it.

788Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Tue Feb 02 2021, 11:44

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@boltonbonce wrote:I see Captain Tom is being trolled on social media. Disgusting, but par for the course these days.

However, why on earth would you take a 100 year old man to Barbados in the midst of a pandemic?

It would be a risk in normal times, let alone now. I just don't understand the thinking behind it.

Maybe it was the last thing to cross off on his bucket list?

Shame that yet again social media is showing its worst side but that is the norm for society these days.

He should not have gone but then again if he didn't expect to see next Christmas then you can understand why he did.

As I've said elsewhere we've all bent the rules over the last year, I don't doubt that many/all of those trolling Tom have bent/broken the rules too.

789Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Feb 05 2021, 18:38

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@boltonbonce wrote:I see Captain Tom is being trolled on social media. Disgusting, but par for the course these days.

However, why on earth would you take a 100 year old man to Barbados in the midst of a pandemic?

It would be a risk in normal times, let alone now. I just don't understand the thinking behind it.
It was on his personal 'bucket list' and given his age it was very unlikely he'd be around to do it after the virus had been completely beaten. Personally, I think it was a very nice gesture to an extraordinary man and given all the precautions taken both before and during the trip I can't see the harm in it. Let's face it, Sir Tom damned well deserved it and in light of his sad passing I think it's a wonderful thing that he got to go after all.

As to the trolls, they really shouldn't worry since Co-Vid seems to be harmful to human beings which they clearly are not.

790Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Sun Feb 07 2021, 20:53

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Gentlemen, firstly, let me say thank you for your comments, and let me say quite clearly that I do believe there is a possibility that the virus was being investigated as a possible weapon, however I do go along with the 'wet market' explanation. Peter, my training took me to a place called Old Sarum, just down the road from Porton, and we were given some very interesting information, some of it from a lecturer in Porton, and I can tell you that it is a very murky world, and naivety can also be used as a weapon. I'm certain that in the 35 years since I did my training things have moved 'forward' considerably.
After using Mustard gas to kill people during the first world war, things developed so that the approach changed from killing people to incapacitating them, as this would use up more of the enemies resources, and slow them down considerably, hence more emphasis on chemical weapons for the battlefield, and biological for the wider population. Of course nuclear weapons combines both.
You don't/can't develop vaccines or antidotes unless you know the behaviours of the original source, and such things are made. 
My point is to never rule anything out.
Add to that the use of media to control the narrative- of which numerous examples have come to light (tempted to use the b word here 😄) - and it’s difficult to take anything at face value although most folk do. Some folk even take Companies House returns as being truly representative of reality FFS 😄

791Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Wed Feb 10 2021, 09:42

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Scottish government has taken a lead in compulsory isolation for all people arriving in the U.K. from abroad which although a year too late - even countries like Vietnam started this last year - is at least providing a front line against new Covid variants.

Tories still too weak to do it.

792Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Wed Feb 10 2021, 10:42

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Yeah, but what do international travelers want to go to Scotland for ?  Very Happy Had to post this quickly as I would get a 'doin' if she saw it. Shocked

793Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Wed Feb 10 2021, 12:22

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
With 21000 people arriving every day, why won’t the tories clamp down on arrivals from Europe, the USA, China and Russia for example ?

I think we all know the real reason behind their arbitrary Policies.

794Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Wed Feb 10 2021, 12:39

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
We do?

795Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Thu Feb 11 2021, 23:47

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
FOR NORPIG's ATTENTION

I presume you've heard about this?

Arthritis drug tocilizumab cuts deaths from Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56024772

796Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Feb 12 2021, 08:06

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:FOR NORPIG's ATTENTION

I presume you've heard about this?

Arthritis drug tocilizumab cuts deaths from Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56024772
 yes fully aware thanks, it's being restricted by the DHSC as usage has shot up recently but we seem to be managing.

797Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Feb 12 2021, 10:00

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:We do?
Have you seen the Red List Glos?
Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 72db7f85-fdad-41e8-8957-b51cc292d67c
What percentage of our global trade do you reckon they collectively represent?
This.

798Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Wed Feb 17 2021, 15:05

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Not sure about this myself?

Posted at 13:08
'Crowded beaches not linked to Covid outbreaks'

Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 C735950e-adb8-4b24-84bb-76510b81f04a

There has never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a crowded beach, MPs have heard.

Mark Woolhouse, professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, told the Science and Technology Committee: "Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches, and there was an outcry about this.

"There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches - there's never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever, anywhere in the world, to the best of my knowledge."

He says that mass gatherings - such as a horse racing event - are an exception because they do not involve social distancing and there are "pinch points" like travel and refreshment facilities.

"I think we do have to understand where the risks are so that we can do as much as possible safely," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56095941


I would have thought there would be just as many breaches of social distancing and pinch points at places like toilets, cafe's along the beach, multi households meeting up outside their bubbles etc.

The thing I would have said that makes horse racing events different to beaches is the shouting and gatheing together towards the end of each race, with evidence from outbreaks linked to singing and choirs being one of the cause of spreading the virus.

799Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 22 2021, 13:40

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So schools are are expected to reopen on 8th March and grassroots football due to be back on 29th March which are both good for my lad as he's hardly set foot out of the house for weeks.

800Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 22 2021, 15:39

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:So schools are are expected to reopen on 8th March and grassroots football due to be back on 29th March which are both good for my lad as he's hardly set foot out of the house for weeks.
Not too sure about schools going back but I’m delighted that footie is back on - getting my jab on Sunday so will feel more confident about kicking the young uns.

Still feel that the government should go with milestones rather than specific dates though. Makes much more sense to say we’ll do this when e.g. the infection rate falls below x and y number of people have been jabbed - I’m sure some bright spark could work out a schedule that folk can understand and are motivated to achieve. By gradually opening freedoms as milestones are reached and maintained it gives the public an incentive to behave responsibly rather than say we’re doing it on specific dates regardless. And folk will know that the freedoms will be removed if we slip back.

801Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 22 2021, 15:42

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
In my opinion it's absolutely bonkers to send schools back while there are still 10,000 cases a day and hundreds of deaths. Those figures are only going to increase.



802Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Feb 22 2021, 19:00

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Of course, schools have been open all along for teachers without adequate PPE to help children who had to attend for various reasons.

So not "reopening" so much as welcoming back all pupils....hopefully not all at once.

Swab testing at home by parents:- good or bad idea?

I agree with Wanderlust that it makes much more sense to set milestones rather than arbitrary dates which may have to be amended,,,,,which will lead to inevitable criticism when they have to u-turn/backtrack....again!  Government not heeding lessons....more in need of teaching than the children!

803Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Tue Feb 23 2021, 12:20

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Half a million dead Americans. Makes me think back to Trump's comments when the pandemic broke and I can't help but feel that his ignorance directly caused many of them. Brazil is pushing 300k thanks to Bolsonaro and goodness knows how many have died in Africa where many countries don't even register deaths.
The lesson is clear - it's not just having the resources to fight it that kills but irresponsible ignorance or worse still, irresponsible leadership for short term political gain or popularity.

804Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Tue Feb 23 2021, 13:54

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
And not just political gains, but more likely personal gain comes a big first.

805Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Mar 15 2021, 06:46

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Apparently people with blood type A are more likely than other blood types to contract Covid and to endure more serious symptoms.

806Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Mon Mar 15 2021, 14:23

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@wanderlust wrote:Half a million dead Americans. Makes me think back to Trump's comments when the pandemic broke and I can't help but feel that his ignorance directly caused many of them. Brazil is pushing 300k thanks to Bolsonaro and goodness knows how many have died in Africa where many countries don't even register deaths.
The lesson is clear - it's not just having the resources to fight it that kills but irresponsible ignorance or worse still, irresponsible leadership for short term political gain or popularity.
It was not ignorance... as Trump told Bob Woodward last year.  “I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down because I don't want to create a panic," Trump said in a March 19 call with Woodward, according to an audio clip posted Wednesday on The Washington Post's website . The newspaper obtained a copy of the book, "Rage," which is scheduled to be released next week.In the same interview, Trump acknowledged that the disease was more deadly than he previously thought.

807Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Mar 19 2021, 11:12

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I finally got round to watching "Contagion" on Netflix last night and it soon became apparent where the government got their strategy for dealing with Covid from.

Released TEN years ago, the stellar cast (Matt Damon, Jude Law, Lawrence Fishburne, Kate Winslet, Bryan Cranston, Gwyneth Paltrow etc) deliver a chilling tale of pandemic that is so close to what actually happened on so many levels it's spinechilling.

No wonder it's trending. A must-see - and a sad indictment of our lack of preparedness given the knowledge the government clearly had at the outset.

808Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Mar 19 2021, 11:30

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I’ve just booked in for my jab, didn’t think they were offering to my age band yet.

809Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Mar 19 2021, 11:36

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@BoltonTillIDie wrote:I’ve just booked in for my jab, didn’t think they were offering to my age band yet.
Hope you've booked your second one BTID - there's talk of India withholding half a million AZ jabs they've manufactured instead of sending them to the UK so we may have shortages for round two.
Perhaps if certain EU countries don't want the AZ jabs they are manufacturing maybe our government could buy them for the UK to cover any shortfall?

810Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 27 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? Fri Mar 19 2021, 11:50

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:
@BoltonTillIDie wrote:I’ve just booked in for my jab, didn’t think they were offering to my age band yet.
Hope you've booked your second one BTID - there's talk of India withholding half a million AZ jabs they've manufactured instead of sending them to the UK so we may have shortages for round two.
Perhaps if certain EU countries don't want the AZ jabs they are manufacturing maybe our government could buy them for the UK to cover any shortfall?

They send for you for the 2nd I thought?

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