Coronavirus - will we survive?

boltonbonce wrote:Come now, boys.

Marcus Aurelius once said:

When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can't tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil, and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own - not of the same blood and birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me. No one can implicate me in ugliness. Nor can I feel angry at my relative, or hate him. We were born to work together like feet, hands and eyes, like the two rows of teeth, upper and lower. To obstruct each other is unnatural. To feel anger at someone, to turn your back on him: these are unnatural.

He clearly hasn't met Wanderlust!



Being serious I don't hate Wanderlust or anybody else.

I'll give you another quote that probably is more to the heart of the matter -

Book of Proverbs, 16:18, Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

For whatever reasons, and I think they run deep with him, it is important to Wanderlust for him to be seen to be clever and knowledgeable about (seemingly) everything.

For that to be so important enough to lie and be abusive to attempt to protect that facade on a frankly almost dead social media forum populated by what about ten anonymous strangers to each other shows he has some serious personal issues.

I couldn't give a monkey's what he believes, no matter how factually wrong he is - I'm not here to change the world - but I don't see anything wrong in correcting  the utter bollocks he (or anyone else) posts on here - isn't informed discussion what any forum is about anyway? - and I don't expect to be personally abused when I do so - or trolled thereafter.

Of course although I don't expect the the abuse and trolling I am fully aware it will be heading my way because that is the nature of the beast of social media.

In the old days prior to the advent of social media, the 'poison' would still be there and people would call you names behind your back - but few would say it to your face.

Well social media allows that and gives a voice to every nutjob and mentalist out there - including Wanderlust.

It isn't hard to say you got something wrong, it counts for nothing on here if you will as nobody knows who you are anyway other than a user name on the internet.  In fact I would have thought that internet anonymity would have allowed more honesty to develop as no one knows who you are and if you had said something that was wrong it couldn't bring recriminations or affects to you in real life.

Thus to go to the trouble of lying and turning yourself inside out rather than just simply say you made an error or got something wrong implies deeper personality issues.

I used to have some sort of sympathy for Wanderlust but that's long since worn away and my sympathy now is with those who have to deal with him in real life - you don't carry on behaving as you do on the internet for several years without  giving away somewhat of your true personality.

So as the saying goes - if he had simply held his hand up when shown to be wrong then we wouldn't have had to put up with the last few years of this shit but his 'pride' and 'haughty spirit' has as led him to repeated falls!

There really as been no need for the lies and abuse from him - who even cares he got something wrong...

...just himself.

Sluffy wrote:A bit more on Bolton

17:49
Early signs Bolton cases levelling off

Jen Williams, of the Manchester Evening News, says local health leaders in Greater Manchester implemented a testing regime before discharging care home residents in March and asks why it took a month to become national policy.

She also asks about whether the surge vaccination support in Bolton could be rolled out to other areas of Greater Manchester which are now seeing rising Covid cases.

Matt Hancock says "unfortunately we didn't have the testing capacity to put that policy in place across the whole country".

On Bolton, he says there are "some early signs" that the increase in rates is starting to "cap out".

Dr Jenny Harries says the spread tends to have focal points, such as a school, community centre or faith building and says it is important local understanding is brought into the picture so that surge testing can be put in place in those areas.

Make your own assumptions as to which community group she is refering to?

 Ethnic slur alert

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:A bit more on Bolton

17:49
Early signs Bolton cases levelling off

Jen Williams, of the Manchester Evening News, says local health leaders in Greater Manchester implemented a testing regime before discharging care home residents in March and asks why it took a month to become national policy.

She also asks about whether the surge vaccination support in Bolton could be rolled out to other areas of Greater Manchester which are now seeing rising Covid cases.

Matt Hancock says "unfortunately we didn't have the testing capacity to put that policy in place across the whole country".

On Bolton, he says there are "some early signs" that the increase in rates is starting to "cap out".

Dr Jenny Harries says the spread tends to have focal points, such as a school, community centre or faith building and says it is important local understanding is brought into the picture so that surge testing can be put in place in those areas.

Make your own assumptions as to which community group she is referring to?

 Ethnic slur alert

Well seeing I didn't state any ethnic group and suggested you make your own judgement then I suggest you've obviously judged me on YOUR own personal  prejudices and bias!

Which of course have nothing to do with me and have already shown you to be homophobic and having already been warned for making an ethnic slur.

Sluffy wrote:

Well seeing I didn't state any ethnic group and suggested you make your own judgement then I suggest you've obviously judged me on YOUR own personal  prejudices and bias!

Interesting logic that begs the question "why state that the comment was aimed at a specific community group in the first place when the originator made no such inference?"
In the spirit of that.....

It's just banter mate. Obviously I know full well that your countless prejudicial comments and insinuations over the years don't make you the humourless power-crazed dictatorial obsessive racist who always has to have the last 200 words on any subject that many people assume you to be.
How could that criticism ever be levelled at a man who gave his name to an excellent range of designer hijabs?*


* also available in lavender, aqua, rose and baby peach.

And before you start I did clearly say that your comments DON'T make you a humourless power-crazed dictatorial obsessive racist.
I repeat: I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that you are a humourless power-crazed dictatorial obsessive racist.

If anyone says otherwise you can count on me to defend you to the hilt.

If what I posted was such a concern to you then why didn't you mention it at the time - some TWO WEEKS AGO???

I'm not a racist but if you want to believe that then that's up to you.

Your post above highlights that you clearly have both mental health issues and a late night drinking problem.

I suggest a break from here would be both good for your health and more pleasant for the rest of us viewing the site.

Daily new cases up to over 7500 and concern over the number of hospitalisations is casting more doubt on the grand reopening.
Personally I think the vibe coming from Boris is that he's going to postpone it - and TBH he probably has no choice now having painted himself into a corner with statements as per the link.
Definitely doing the media groundwork for a postponement.

wanderlust wrote:Daily new cases up to over 7500 and concern over the number of hospitalisations is casting more doubt on the grand reopening.
Personally I think the vibe coming from Boris is that he's going to postpone it - and TBH he probably has no choice now having painted himself into a corner with statements as per the link.
Definitely doing the media groundwork for a postponement.

My daughter is in the age group 25 to under 30 which has this week been able to book for the jab.  On the first day available there were apparently just over 1 million of them booking their jabs.

My daughters first jab is in 2 weeks and the second in September.

There is of course the 18 to under 25's still to come for booking and jabbing and then the question of those under 18's.

So clearly there are a great hoard of people who won't have had their two jabs until well into the Autumn and beyond at the rate they are doing them now.

It would seem that those age groups - children to under 30's, are the very people mostly catching and spreading the virus - so the numbers of cases will clearly be heading up now let alone if and when we unlock completely.

The bottom line throughout has always been to save the NHS from getting swamped and although the jabs have seemingly saved most of us oldies and sickies most at risk from catching it bad and/or dying it does seem that many youngsters are now being hospitalised instead albeit only for a short time.

The government are on somewhat of a knife edge in terms of a complete opening from lockdown - do they or don't they - how high will hospital cases rise if they do and how many oldies and sickies who have still not chosen to have their jabs may end up in hospital/die when the next wave hits?

Hard one to call.

Either way people will give the government stick for whatever they choose.

Seems reasonable to delay things though for a week or two just to see what hospital numbers start to look like I would have thought.

I can see the June date being pushed back by a couple of weeks as Sluffy said.

Covid admissions where i work have gone down massively in the last month or so but cases still seem to be rising.

Chriss Whitty and others have been warning of an impending "Third Wave" for at least a fortnight now and it's about time Boris listened to them. No offence, I know it must be tremendously difficult to balance the needs of the economy and people's generally dispirited feelings about what's happened already against public safety but every time Boris has tried to put a sunny image on things and say they're not really that bad it's bitten us all in the backside. The June 21st date is simply not realistic according to most of the experts and I'd be very careful about trying to ignore or amend their advice yet again. Obviously no one wants yet another lockdown but I believe some sensible limitations need to stay in place at least until we're sure the new 'variants' are going to stop coming along or that we have a truly effective vaccine regardless of what variant it's being used against.

A complete lifting of all restrictions is premature at this time imo especially given that many countries are still a long way behind in their own vaccination programmes.

Some idiot has written on a wall near where i live that 1261 people have died from having the covid vaccine, their 2 braincells must get very lonely in that thick skull of theirs 

Norpig wrote:Some idiot has written on a wall near where i live that 1261 people have died from having the covid vaccine, their 2 braincells must get very lonely in that thick skull of theirs 

You should grab a spray can and put a footnote to the effect that 150000+ people have died from not having it.

Thought this was interesting -

COVID SYMPTOMS HAVE CHANGED.

A headache, sore throat and runny nose are now the most commonly reported symptoms linked to Covid infection in the UK, researchers say.

Prof Tim Spector, who runs the Zoe Covid Symptom study, says catching the Delta variant can feel "more like a bad cold" for younger people.

But although they may not feel very ill, they could be contagious and put others at risk.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57467051

Covid SymptoM Sudy - ZOE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID_Symptom_Study

More confused thinking from Boris who increasingly comes across as a prisoner of populism.
On the 21st June some restrictions will still be lifted including no limit on the number of wedding guests. If ever there was an excuse for a Covid spreading party, a wedding would be it.

Now he's saying that the lockdown will end completely on the 19th of July regardless - so what happened to "following the science"?
All this despite new cases rising by 45% and deaths rising by 12% in the last week.

wanderlust wrote:All this despite new cases rising by 45% and deaths rising by 12% in the last week.

450 people die from a heart attack every day in the UK, with thousands more admitted to hospital.

3 Covid deaths were reported yesterday and 31 people admitted to hospital.

We have to learn to live with Covid, just as we live with heart disease and all the other things that can kill us.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:All this despite new cases rising by 45% and deaths rising by 12% in the last week.

450 people die from a heart attack every day in the UK, with thousands more admitted to hospital.

3 Covid deaths were reported yesterday and 31 people admitted to hospital.

We have to learn to live with Covid, just as we live with heart disease and all the other things that can kill us.

I think we all know that and the government is just being cautious and seeing how the Indian version effects hospital beds for the next two or three weeks.

It doesn't seem at the moment to be creating such a massive demand as such in the hardest hit North west areas and if that continues to be the case I'm sure they will ease lockdown next month even if cases continue to rise - as it would seem the jabs have done enough to keep the NHS from getting swamped in cases.

The daily hospital admittance figure is not really the one to follow though, it is the total of those 'in' hospital. If say 31 people enter hospital every day and are discharged in a few days, it isn't a problem but if 31 are admitted each day and stay for a year, then it becomes one - if you see what I mean.

The thing that annoys me about Boris is that he won't make a decision and actually stop anything. It's always you shouldn't go abroad and not you can't.

If he just came out and said foreign holidays were not allowed this year and people could only come in or leave the country for an absolute emergency then we would be out of lockdown now and wouldn't have an issue with the Delta variant.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

450 people die from a heart attack every day in the UK, with thousands more admitted to hospital.

3 Covid deaths were reported yesterday and 31 people admitted to hospital.

We have to learn to live with Covid, just as we live with heart disease and all the other things that can kill us.

That's true (Monday reporting always low) but heart disease isn't contagious and the problem with pandemics is that if they aren't stamped on they spread exponentially and in no time we could be back to thousands of deaths per day.
By "learned to live with Covid" that means we have changed our behaviour and taken many, many precautions to keep it under control - so yes we know what we have to do - and that includes taking extra precautions when it's on the rise or a new mutation arrives.
Conversely, we've never "learned to live with" heart disease or cancer or other slower killers for that matter - we just accept the death toll and tend to assume it won't happen to us until it's too late. But Covid is quick by comparison and we know it's a threat and that we can protect ourselves against it so really they aren't comparable.

Thought these stats were interesting to note -

Posted at 10:09
Delta variant hospital cases double in England

A total of 806 people in England have been admitted to hospital with the Delta variant of Covid-19 as of 14 June, new figures show.

This is a rise of 423 on the previous week, according to the data from Public Health England.

Of the 806 hospitalisations:

527 (65%) people were unvaccinated
135 (17%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
84 (10%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.

Of the 73 deaths:

34 (47%) were unvaccinated
10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-57523149/page/2


One thing the stats don't show is the age and health profiles.

I very strongly suspect that those dying after having two jabs are the really old and vulnerable but I can't find any details to confirm that.

It does seem though that the average age of those now being hospitalised are under 60 now, and that many of those over sixty had refused to have their jabs when they should have done.

Ros Atkins On… How the Delta variant took hold in the UK

Ros Atkins traces back the story of the Delta variant, from its arrival in the UK to how it became the dominant strain of Covid-19, leading to a delay in the easing of restrictions.