Tour de France 2020

Only thing I'd like to add to what we've already said is that I'm very pleased for Richie Porte to end up in third place today, the very least his outstanding career deserves.

The blue ribbon day for sprinters today which Bennett most be favourite for but keep an eye out for Caleb Ewan.

The stage is a bit dull to watch in all honesty but I guess it's really the yellow jersey's day and not mine and no doubt he will love every second of it.

Roglic must be completely gutted but he's young enough to come back from this and learn from it.

Maybe the pressure and expectation got to him in the end but onwards and upwards for him, as you say he did himself and the sport proud and showed his character dragging himself up to congratulate Pogacar although it probably was the last place on earth he wanted to be right then.

I can't decide whether it was Roglic running out of steam after leading the tour for so long, counting his chickens which would dull his competitive edge or a combination of both. TBF coming in fifth in the TT is a great effort but being so close to the prize I'd have expected him to move heaven and earth to seal the deal. Maybe he did but just came up short?
Either way, Pogacar's ride was phenomenal.

More theatre to come?

A bit of background first, Quintana was really the only rider capable of beating Froome at the time - in fact he did on the Vuelta once but Froome had early beaten him on the TdF that year - and that's the one they all want to win.  Think of them as the Roglic and Pogacar of their time so to speak.

Quintanan rode for a Spanish team and always seem to not ride well with the other top Spanish riders the team had during that time - he always made out he was the team leader even though at times he clearly wasn't always the best place rider - and didn't ride to support who was.

His Spanish team and at least one of his current (and still riding) 'co-team leaders' were no strangers to doping back in the Armstrong era.

Quintana left the Spanish team in a bit of a huff last season to ride for the second rate French Team he's with now - but which has built their team around him.  His age means his best days are behind him however.

Was he trying to stick two fingers up to everybody by using some chemicals perhaps - I guess this is what the story is leading too?

Nairo Quintana’s hotel room was searched by police during final week of Tour de France, according to reports

Nairo Quintana’s hotel room was searched by police during the final week of the Tour de France, according to French media.

A search is believed to have been carried out by environment and public health officers while Quintana was staying at the Arkéa-Samsic team hotel in Les Allues, near Méribel, on Wednesday (September 16).

According to the reports, the officers from the  Central Office for the Fight Against Attacks on the Environment and Public Health (OCLAESP) searched Quintana’s room, along with rooms of his brother Dayer and fellow Colombian Winner Anacona.

The officers also searched the rooms of the masseurs and the team cars.

News emerged from French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche, with reports suggesting it was part of a “preliminary investigation,” but it is unclear what the officers were looking for.

The search was also reportedly carried out without the French anti-doping authorities being consulted.

French newspaper L’Equipe has since reported Arkéa-Samsic team manager Emmanuel  Hubert has confirmed the search had taken place, but said it revolved around Quintana specifically and not the team itself.

Quintana had another disappointing Tour de France after looking so strong early in 2020.

Having won two stage races back to back before the coronavirus break, Quintana was back amongst the favourites for the Tour but his preparation was upended when he was hit by a car while training.

He was then caught in crashes at the Tour and fell out of contention for the overall on Grand Colombier.

Quintana eventually slipped back to 17th overall and left the race without a stage victory.

The former Vuelta a España and Giro d’Italia champion is scheduled to race the World Championships in Imola later this week, but his schedule for the rest of 2020 has not yet been confirmed.

Quintana and Arkéa-Samsic are yet to release a statement on the search.  

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/nairo-quintanas-hotel-room-was-searched-by-police-during-final-week-of-tour-de-france-according-to-reports-469397

Tour de France 2020 ratings: how did each team perform?

Ag2r La Mondiale 6/10
A Tour de France that started out with huge promise petered out the closer they came to Paris. Romain Bardet crashed out of the race with concussion on stage 13 while ranking fourth overall, Benoît Cosnefroy lost the polka-dot jersey on stage 17 having held it for the past fortnight, and nobody else came close to a stage win after Nans Peters success in the first week.

Arkéa-Samsic 2/10
The team put all their eggs into one basket, then dropped that basket halfway into the race. Everyone was tasked with protecting Nario Quintana, who, after a solid start, was dropped on Grand Colombier during stage 15, and continued to lose time as he apparently suffered the after-effects of a couple of crashes suffered earlier in the race. They were unable to bounce back with any breakaway success afterwards.

Astana 8/10
They didn’t make any friends attacking on a descent during the opening stage’s downpour, inadvertently causing their own leader, Miguel Ángel López, to crash, but from that point on Astana protected the Colombian well, setting him up for a spectacular stage win atop the Cole de la Loze. His podium hopes might have capitulated on the final time trial, after which he tumbled from third to sixth on GC, but an earlier Alexey Lutsenko breakaway stage win ensures that this was a successful Tour.

Bahrain-McLaren 6/10
Widely lambasted for their tactics on stage 17, when their bold pace-setting over the Col de la Madeleine and Col de la Loze succeeded only in dropping the man they were trying to set up for an attack, Bahrain-McLaren nevertheless ended the Tour well, helping Mikel Landa to jump to fourth overall. They could not, however, turn their obvious strength into either a stage win or a podium finish in Paris.

B&B Hotels-Vital Concept 4/10
Try as they might, this French wildcard team couldn’t quite land a stage win. Bryan Coquard had the chance of a lifetime when he made the split caused by the crosswinds on the road to Lavaur, but only managed to sprint for third, while for all his attacking in the mountains, Pierre Rolland was neither able to win a stage nor take the polka-dot jersey.

Bora-Hansgrohe 5/10
Despite riding very impressively as a team, things just didn’t fall into place for Bora-Hansgrohe this year. Their GC hope, Emanuel Buchmann, fell out of contention in the first week, and their aggressive racing wasn’t enough to save Peter Sagan from a rare defeat in the points classification. Lennard Kämna’s win in the Vercors — the day after he and Max Schachmann squandered a numerical advantage to finish second and third behind Dani Martínez (EF Pro Cycling), a finish that epitomised their frustrations throughout the Tour — was their one triumph.

CCC 3/10
This was a stronger team that CCC brought to the Tour compared to last year, which only made their failure once again to make an impact all the more frustrating. Greg Van Avermaet, Simon Geschke, and Matteo Trentin were regulars in breakaways, with the latter devoting himself to the points classification (in which he finished third), but none were able to claim the longed-for stage win, while poor descending prevented Ilnur Zakarin from doing so on the first stage in the Pyrenees.

Cofidis 4/10
The team’s new signing and major hope Elia Viviani flopped in the sprints, only managing a couple of top-five finishes, but Guillame Martin initially impressed in the mountains, before fading in the race’s second half to slip from third overall to 11th. Their 12-year wait for a stage win continues, though, despite some agonising near misses from Martin, who was third in an uphill sprint on Orcières-Merlette, and Jesús Herrada on stage six, who finished second behind Alexey Lutsenko.

Deceuninck-Quick-Step 8/10
They might not have racked up quite as huge a haul of stage wins in the sprints as they have in the past, but Deceuninck-Quick-Step enjoyed a different kind of success this year, helping guide a consistent and resolute Sam Bennett to victory in the points classification, as well as two bunch sprint wins. Meanwhile Julian Alaphilippe was unable to repeat his heroics from last year, but still managed a stage win in Nice plus a short stint in yellow during the first week.

EF Pro Cycling 6/10
This was a Tour of mixed fortunes for EF Pro Cycling’s trident of exciting Colombians. Twenty-four-year-old Daniel Martínez crashed in the first week and fell out of GC contention, but bounced back brilliantly to win on Puy Mary; Rigoberto Urán rode flawlessly over the first two weeks to place third overall on the final rest day, only to fall to eighth overall; and Sergio Higuita abandoned on stage 15.

Groupama-FDJ 2/10
In hindsight, Groupama-FDJ’s hopes effectively ended on the very first day, when their sole leader Thibaut Pinot [The big French hope for this Tour - Sluffy] crashed and sustained the injuries that would see him fall hopelessly out of contention in the Pyrenees. From that point on they reported to hopeful breakaways, with Sébastian Reichenbach faring best with a third-place finish on the stage in the Vercors.

Ineos Grenadiers 4/10
How the mighty have fallen. Not only were Ineos Grenadiers thoroughly outshone by rivals Jumbo-Visma, their leader Egan Bernal dramatically fell apart in the Alps and eventually abandoned, making this the first Tour de France since 2014 that the team has failed to win. Michał Kwiatkowski and Richard Carapaz at least managed to save the team’s honour with a photo-friendly one-two on stage 18.

Israel Start-Up Nation 2/10 - [The team Froome is moving to - Sluffy]
It was an underwhelming Tour de France debut for Israel Start-Up Nation. Dan Martin was unable to muster a GC challenge and fared no better from the breakaways he managed to get into, while the likes of Nils Politt and Ben Hermans managed to periodically get into breaks without making much of an impression. Fourth from Hugo Hofstetter on the stage three bunch sprint in Sisteron was their best result.

Jumbo-Visma 9/10
From day one, when road captain Tony Martin took it upon himself to neutralise the race in the rain, Jumbo-Visma sought to assert themselves, and that they did throughout the race, first to take the yellow jersey for Primož Roglič in the first week, then defend it over the next fortnight with their imposing squad of climbing super-domestiques.

Primož Roglič couldn’t quite deliver when left to his own devices in the penultimate day time trial, where he lost yellow, but on the whole this was still a serious display of strength from the team — particularly from Wout van Aert, who defied normal cycling rules to win two bunch sprints and ride with the best climbers in the Alps.

Lotto-Soudal 7/10
No team was hit harder by the opening stage carnage than Lotto-Soudal, who lost Philippe Gilbert to a crash and John Degenkolb to the time limit. But they managed to bounce back excellently, and helped Caleb Ewan to a couple of bunch sprint victories.

Mitchelton-Scott 5/10
A time penalty for Deceuninck-Quick-Step’s Julian Alaphilippe handed Adam Yates the yellow jersey on stage five, and he stubbornly held on to it for another three days. His good form encouraged him to switch from hunting stage wins to going for a high place on GC, although he couldn’t carry it into the final week and fell to ninth overall. The team were conspicuous by their absence in the breakaways, although Luka Mezgec twice managed to sprint for second-place.

Movistar 6/10
You’d be hard-pressed to remember a single Movistar doing anything these past three weeks, yet still managed to win the team classification. Their cautious but steady approach was epitomised by Enric Mas, who improved as the race went on to finish fifth overall. Given reduced expectations following the departure of their star riders, that’s a decent return, albeit rather boringly achieved.

NTT Pro Cycling 3/10
The team had high hopes for sprinter Giacomo Nizzolo, who got off to a good start with third on stage three, but wound up abandoning later that week. After that they tried their luck with breakaways, but no-one managed better than Edvald Boasson Hagen’s second-place on stage seven.

Team Sunweb 9/10
In the absence of Michael Matthews their young roster stepped up and did better than anyone could have expected. Søren Kragh Andersen was the canny victory of two stage wins, their excellent lead-out train helped Cees Bol to a couple of top-three sprint finishes, and 22-year-old Marc Hirschi was the revelation of the race, unleashing a number of monstrous attacks to take home both a stage victory and the super-combativity award.

Total Direct Energie 5/10
This was a quintessential wildcard-French-selection performance from a quintessential wildcard-French-selection team. Almost their entire roster was involved in a breakaway at some point in the race, meaning we became familiar with their blue and red jerseys, even if they didn’t come near to winning anything. - [Classic example of why 'little' teams have to get in the breaks to show their sponsors ads on their shirts because they are to outgunned to be involved at the sharp end of the races - Sluffy].

Trek-Segafredo 8/10
This didn’t look like a team set for a GC bid, but Richie Porte rolled back the years to ride the best Tour of his career at the grand age of 35, delivering the team its first podium finish since Andy Schleck back in 2011. A stage win would have been the cherry on the cake, and Mads Pedersen (second on the Champs-Élysées and in Nice), Toms Skujiņš (second on the first Pyrenean stage) and Porte himself (third in the time trial and on Grand Colombier) all came very close.

UAE Emirates 10/10
Tadej Pogačar was a bit of a one-man show, but what a show that was. Despite losing key mountain lieutenants Fabio Aru and Davide Formolo either side of the first rest day, the Slovenian road with freedom and aplomb in the mountains to win a stage each in the Pyrenees and the Alps, and then produced one of the all-time great Tour de France performances in the time trial to win the overall classification — reclaiming the yellow jersey the team had first gained on the opening stage thanks to Alexander Kristoff.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-2020-ratings-how-did-each-team-perform-469353

More on the potential 'drug' story -

Two people held by French authorities in Tour de France doping investigation

Arkéa-Samsic general manager says two held not employed by team.

That more or less is what the article says but there is a link to it if anybody wants to read it for themselves - sounding a bit like what Wiggins got up to with the 'jiffy bag' but without even the 'medical justification' certificate!

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/report-two-people-held-after-french-prosecutor-opens-investigation-of-doping-at-tour-de-france-469420

Re the Teams  can't argue with any of the above, however for a novice watching without much knowledge.

 The following teams became apparent first to catch my eye was Bora-Hansgrohe (first Week) secondly it was Team Sunweb mainly due to Marc Hirshe.


Ineos Grenadiers mainly  because of who they are, and that last years winner was mentioned a lot. Plus Carapaz was impressive to watch



Bahrain-McLaren came to the fore late in the race, but the  dominant team for me was Jumbo-Visma  because they shielded the yellow jersey so well until the fated TT.



Wierdly UAE Emirates had no impact what so ever on me they passed me by, it was all about Pogacar


Hopefully i will pick up more on the next tour in Italy

wessy wrote:Hopefully i will pick up more on the next tour in Italy

Of course you will!

Most of the Teams will be the same, one or two of the wildcard teams might be different although they won't be so important in the scheme of things.

The riders will all be different though, I doubt many if any will be riding from the TdF to the Giro with just a couple of weeks rest, more likely a few will in the Vuelta a few weeks later though.

I'll try and pick out a few to keep an eye on when the rosters are announced but you've already got a good grasp of the basics and strategies of Tour riding and the more of them you watch, the more aware of all the layers are as to what is going on!

Role on next month!

Sluffy thanks in advace, you also guessed my next question in regards of a different set of riders, after 3400k guessing they need to recover, with my new found interest i will try to read about it before hand as well.

wessy wrote:Sluffy thanks in advace, you also guessed my next question in regards of a different set of riders, after 3400k guessing they need to recover, with my new found interest i will try to read about it before hand as well.

Happy to help, genuinely, I'm not just saying that.

Following the various Tours over the years has given me a lot of pleasure and if I'm able to help just one other person to find something they enjoy too, then that's a bonus to me.

I can't promise the next Tour will be as exciting as this one but it is surprising how many actually have been, there's always something unexpected and jaw dropping that seems to happen, either on or off the bike.

As I repeatedly say I view it all as theatre.

The Giro usually is effected by the weather, rain and snow, with it being held usually in May and the thinking is that will still probably be the case to in October as well.

No doubt we'll see soon enough.

Anyway talking of the unexpected and jaw dropping, here's a clip of the last time Geraint Thomas was at the Giro and crashed out of it because of a policeman!

Pure theatre as per usual!

Such a simple thing to happen to have such a massive impact, my first thought was, but the police bike was stopped. 

Then i instanly recalled an experience i had running when your in a large group your following the heels/ wheels of the athlete in front, i was in a large group training, the pace was fast the guy in front of me did a side step and shouted a warning, it was to late for me, at full pelt i ran into the angle of a crash barrier it flung me backwards and i hit the deck.

The group was gone a motorist saw me drop and thought i had an heart attack, he kindly drove me home, i had a square imprint on my stomach luckily i avoided all the bones.

So i can see how that happened in the tour.  Hoping you will start a new thread for the Italian Tour?

I already know they have different colour jerseys for the leaders, and that they have 3 time trials and a lot of mountains to climb. Last day should be interesting with a TT

If you are looking for another a cycling 'hit' already, the road (as opposed to indoor cycling like Chris Hoy, Jason Kenny and his wife Laura Trott/Kenny won all those Olympic golds at) world cycling championships are currently taking place and free to view on the BBC - here's a write up about it...

A pared-down version of the 2020 Road World Championships will be held in Italy from 24-27 September.

The annual championships were originally due to be held in Switzerland, but had to be switched because of coronavirus restrictions.

Cycling's governing body, the UCI, has chosen to run just the elite road and time trial races for both men and women - there will be no junior or under-23 events and no team time trial mixed relay.

The start and finish of each event will take place on the Imola motor racing circuit, but each route will break out onto the roads of the Emilia Romagna region.

The men's road race will be held on a punishing 260km route that features nearly 5,000m of climbing, while the women's event will be held over 144km, ascending over 2,750m. The time-trial circuit will be 32km for both men and women.

The four-day championships will see a host of top cycling talent with recent Tour de France winner Tadej Pogacar and runner up Primoz Roglic set to compete in the men's road race on Sunday.

It's women's TT going on live now here -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cycling/53770220

Can't say I'm a great fan of either TT's or women's cycling but the Dutch girls are the worlds best over the last few years generally although the defending rider is an American - Chloe Dygert (USA) who was untouchable on the 30km course from Ripon to Harrogate last year, taking victory by a staggering 1-32 ahead of Anna van der Breggen, when she was aged just 22.

Lizzie Deignan is the English girl to watch, formerly best rider in the world before having a break to become a mum but she's getting back to her best more recently.

BBC coverage times
All times listed are BST and are subject to change.

Thursday, 24 September

13:30-16:00 - Women's individual time trial, BBC Red Button, BBC iPlayer & BBC Sport website & app

Friday, 25 September

10:45-13:15 - Women's individual time trial (rpt), BBC Red Button

13:15-16:00 - Men's individual time trial, BBC Red Button, BBC iPlayer & BBC Sport website & app

Saturday, 26 September

08:35-11:25 - Men's individual time trial (rpt), BBC Red Button

11:25-16:20 - Women's road race, BBC iPlayer & BBC Sport website & app

21:50-02:40 - Women's road race (rpt), BBC Red Button

Sunday, 27 September

08:35-16:30 - Men's road race (uninterrupted), BBC Red Button, BBC iPlayer & BBC Sport website & app

12:00-16:20 - Men's road race, BBC Two

19:35-03:30 - Men's road race (rpt), BBC Red Button

wessy wrote:Such a simple thing to happen to have such a massive impact, my first thought was, but the police bike was stopped. 

Then i instanly recalled an experience i had running when your in a large group your following the heels/ wheels of the athlete in front, i was in a large group training, the pace was fast the guy in front of me did a side step and shouted a warning, it was to late for me, at full pelt i ran into the angle of a crash barrier it flung me backwards and i hit the deck.

The group was gone a motorist saw me drop and thought i had an heart attack, he kindly drove me home, i had a square imprint on my stomach luckily i avoided all the bones.

So i can see how that happened in the tour.  Hoping you will start a new thread for the Italian Tour?

I already know they have different colour jerseys for the leaders, and that they have 3 time trials and a lot of mountains to climb. Last day should be interesting with a TT

On Tours there are sorts of protocols that people work to, one of which is that official motor vehicles will generally pull over to the riders right.  What happened here is the policeman unexpectedly stopped on the left hand side of the road and the leading cyclists didn't have enough time to give those behind them the room not to make contact with him - rather like the example you give.

In fact many ex-pros are employed to drive the team cars and support vehicles because of their innate knowledge of how cycling 'works' so to speak.

I've no doubt little mistakes and errors happen all the time and amount to nothing much, just unfortunate that this time it did - here's another famous incident from the TdF - into a barbed wired fence!

Part of the unexpected/out of the blue/theatre I enjoy so much about the events!








Yes, of course I'll start a thread on the Giro and contribute to it the best I can!

Bloody hell i bet that hurt, thanks for the info will defo dip in.

Horrific accident for Chloe Dygert, the defending women's TT world champion.

I won't put the pictures up but the video shows the crash happening - and not the aftermath.

She's sustained a serious leg injury - obviously hope you soon recovers completely from it.

She was actually leading the race overall at the time of the accident.

I saw that crash on the highlights, hope she fully recovers.

Remember i questioned during thr TOF the awesome climb and asked if it was possible that drugs where involved. saw this in VeloNews
https://www.velonews.com/events/tour-de-france/french-lead-chorus-of-doubt-in-wake-of-tour-de-france/

wessy wrote:I saw that crash on the highlights, hope she fully recovers.

Remember i questioned during thr TOF the awesome climb and asked if it was possible that drugs where involved. saw this in VeloNews
https://www.velonews.com/events/tour-de-france/french-lead-chorus-of-doubt-in-wake-of-tour-de-france/

Seems the young woman suffered a badly cut leg but no major issues otherwise and had surgery, seems that she will make a full recovery.

Yes, hard to know if doping weas used or not but cycling will always be under a cloud of suspicion.

There's three general areas of concern, the first is that cyclist are taking drugs to BREAK the rules directly - what I mean is like blood doping for instance.  The second (and most probably the main one) is taking drugs to BEND the rules - what I mean is taking legally drugs for medical conditions as approved on request to the cycling governing body BUT having a 'bent' doctor making false authorisations to get the permission in the first place - see the link below for Dr Richard Freeman who was Head of Sports Science under Allardyce at BWFC and then went on to work for British Cycling and Team Sky - and the controversy that surrounded him and Bradley Wiggins -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Freeman_(physician)

The third area is 'mechanical' doping (having a powered engine hidden in your bike) - and was behind the argument at the TdF that got the 'boss' of Jumbo thrown out of the race this year - although nothing was found.

I think you will find this video interesting - I do - and note that one of the riders featured here is Woet van Aert who rode for Jumbo in the Tour.

Makes you think doesn't it!



You won't know some of the riders on here but the one you see at the start riding off into the distance from that steep hill is called Fabian Cancellara (the same man seen taking an unbelieveable two minutes out of Wiggins in a TT later on in the video) and beating the Belgium champion and one of the world's best riders at that time, and 2005 World Road race champion, Tom Boonen.

This is what Boonen said some years after that race -

During an April 2017 press conference, just before his final Ronde van Vlaanderen, Tom Boonen was asked if it was always the strongest rider who wins the Tour of Flanders. "Yes, most of the time", he said. "In every race like that, it is not always the strongest that wins, but most of the time it is. In Flanders, I can’t really recall one year… Well, I can recall one year…” When asked what year he was referring to, Boonen smiled and replied "No comment". On 6 April, two days before the 2018 Paris-Roubaix, Samuël Grulois of Radio Télévision Belge Francophone (RTBF) asked Boonen if he believed Cancellara had used a motor to beat him in 2010: "Did Cancellara steal the 2010 Flanders due to a motor? Is there any doubt?” Boonen replied "Yes," and added "But it’s not for me to say. I finished second, and it’s not the one in second who has to say the situation is not normal. It’s very difficult to prove because we do not have the bike to check. It’s too late".[131]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Cancellara#Allegation_of_'mechanical_doping'

As I say, its pure theatre on and off the bike in cycling!!!

Just watching the clips it really looks a bit dodgy the final bike kept spinning whilst on the ground they are more bothered about the bike than the rider very dodgy.

I hate the drugs issue and any form of cheating, it stopped me watching top class athletics for years Mo Farrah got me interested again, i thought his record was incredible, but now i feel it is more likely unbelievable. 

His association with Salazar (Banned coach) his range faster at 1500 than Ovett and Coe? yet best in the world at 5k and 10k whilst winning half marathons, he's only just come unstuck finally at the marathon but is still the fastest ever Brit.  It just doesn't feel right.

Back to cycling if a problem arises with mechanical doping surely the powers that be should be checking every bike pre race with random checks during the race, it should be easy to check any ride that looks wrong, the other doping issues much harder in all sports.

I could never understand how a group of say Kenyan athletes were running way faster than the very best europeans of any age present or past, 5 or 6 runners hitting the bell ahead of world record pace?

People assumed it was the way they trained, recently a host of african runners have been banned, (15 Kenyans in 2019) effectivly ruining the careers of any clean athlete. very sad.

People cheat, always have done, always will - there's no getting past that point.

I remember Lasse Viren doing what was the first I'd heard of blood doping back in the day, so if 'science' had come up with that fifty years ago God knows how sophisticated drug cheating could well probably be (over all sports) in these days???

They do, do, checks on bikes - and it seems the most unlikely way of getting away with cheating as its something you can physically find as such but you never know whose in on the scam if there is such a thing going on.  Look at all the corruption in FIFA, Russia as a state systematically cheated, the old East Germany, China's swimmers, the cycling world body was linked to covering up the Armstrong affair, did Sky cheat with their dodgy doctor and Wiggins 'jiffy bag'.

As Kenyans were supposed to be the best because they came from altitude, cycling supposedly got faster as the bike technology improved - as it happens neither were correct and drugs were in fact the reason in both cases.

I've had Farah down as a drugs cheat for years - never once celebrated any of his achievements - I'm not a massive athletics fan but I do remember him showing no form in races then suddenly out of nowhere become one of the world's best and able to take on the Kenyan's at their peak - I though yeah right, Lasse Viren time again no doubt - seems my suspicious mind might not be too far off the truth does it?

I take it all for what it is supposed to be though - entertainment for the viewer - and don't get wrapped up in the hype and hero worship that some are feted with - Farah a national hero, Armstrong a world hero - it gets incredibly hard for even the governing bodies to bring those people down when they start to become bigger than the sport itself.

Corruption must be endemic in football with the staggering amounts of money it has slushing about in it - not doping as such but no doubt financial cheating - City for instance backed by the Abu Dhabi royal wealth was able to basically stick two fingers up to the FFP rules and do as they pleased - Abramovitch is no longer welcome in this country, The Saudi Royal fund was prevented from taking over Newcastle - and the wealth and way some/many of footballers behave and act entitled (even at lower tier level) and still are thought more about for their skill at kicking a ball than being a person is to my mind sickening and perverse - read these link for instance -

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/reece-thompson-selby-lincoln-boston-4538213
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/12741772/footballer-beat-girlfriend-signed-selby-town-fc/

Money talks at the end of the day.

Cycling's just entertainment to me - that's why I refer so much to it being theatre - is it any worse than watching a play on TV - after all that isn't real either and sport, when all said and done, is just a game and isn't important as such in the scheme of things other than as a distraction through life.

That's why I can't understand how some people devote their life's to it, become obsessed with it, becomes their religion - football is just a group of blokes kicking a ball about, running is a bunch of people running around in anti-clockwise circles and cycling just riding a bike from A to B - enjoy the moment or not, it doesn't really mean anything does it?

I rather watch cycling than say EastEnders's, that's the level I'm at, it's a hobby, a past time an interest, that's all it is to me - about as meaningful as an episode of EastEnders as such!

In fact most things in life are to me and probably why I can't get worked up about things that many people seem to do.

Just the way I am I guess.

Lasse Viren in 1972 was my first super star, i couldn't comprehend the drug concept at that point i was new to the sport, more fool me i thought he was great.

I had two UK athletes that i loved to watch and would swear they are clean, Dave Bedford and Ron Hill.

But slowly my trust was eroded, it very difficuly when you see how hard the average club athlete trains for no gain. I have great regard for club sport, however once you reach a certain level money kicks in and doubt arises.
For example i was running 80 miles a week and working a 40 hour week just for the love of sport, i won prizes from time to time but money was not allowed back then.

I agree with all you say however i guess that your not the norm in terms of young people do buy into sports and sports star and idolise certain role models. I think we see things differently has we age. We see them for what they are.

The Man city thing sticks in my throat, they cheated and have been rewarded for cheating.

As for the footballer (Clips) he wants his balls loping off.

The motorised bike thing? where is it concealed within the frame?

I still intend to watch the next tour.