Will you boo if Bolton Players take the knee

The England team are all united on it, Wilf Zaha disagreeing shouldn’t prevent them from making their gesture.

I think the majority of people are still supportive, or even if they aren’t respect the players views enough not to attack them doing it - just my opinion though.

Also, Im not ‘taking away the right’ of fans to boo, it’s a complex issue, which will naturally draw emotional responses. But if the most intelligent way of articulating your response is to boo while offering no explanation or rationale for why then yes that sort of idiocy is contributing to the issue, whether you are a racist or not.

To be brutally honest if I was a player and some over sensitive soul like 63 booed me for doing it I’d do it again and again to show they won’t stop or control me. I’d bet a lot of our players feel the same.

Anyway, big day today and hopefully once England finally get underway the press stop focusing on this issue and we can talk about football.

Let them boo if they so choose. I boo the National Anthem. I'm a citizen, not a subject, so HM can piss right off.

I'm in a bad mood this morning.

Politics should not be in sports - I don't really care what the players do but just for curiosity how long is this to go on - the rest of our lives ----another year or two...... next storm will be when one player on a team stands and the others all kneel....... lets get back to football.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:The England team are all united on it, Wilf Zaha disagreeing shouldn’t prevent them from making their gesture.

I think the majority of people are still supportive, or even if they aren’t respect the players views enough not to attack them doing it - just my opinion though.

Also, Im not ‘taking away the right’ of fans to boo, it’s a complex issue, which will naturally draw emotional responses. But if the most intelligent way of articulating your response is to boo while offering no explanation or rationale for why then yes that sort of idiocy is contributing to the issue, whether you are a racist or not.

To be brutally honest if I was a player and some over sensitive soul like 63 booed me for doing it I’d do it again and again to show they won’t stop or control me. I’d bet a lot of our players feel the same.

Anyway, big day today and hopefully once England finally get underway the press stop focusing on this issue and we can talk about football.

I don't really disagree with much what you say but this bit suggests of stubbornness and obsessive behaviour which aren't good traits to have...

...and as for the whole England Team being united on this..., well it takes a strong person to stand alone against the rest, I suggest some/many of the players aren't too fussed either way about the 'knee' but don't want to rock the boat by making a stand against it like Zaha.

A bit of a hypothetical question, if Zaha was the stand out best English player - the first name on the team sheet type - and in the squad right now and told the English FA that he certainly would not take the knee if picked, what do you think England FA would do?  Would they tell Southgate not to pick him perhaps?  They (and Southgate) would certainly have to amend/change their narrative on the knee as the star player clearly believes they are wrong!!!

Would the rest of the team still take the knee or would some say 'yeah, I think Wilf is right, it is time to stop doing it' and start to stand themselves???

Do you think some of the England players who passionately believe in the knee would 'cold shoulder' Zaha - not pass to him on the pitch even???

As I say hypothetical, I'm not sure what went on at Palace this season, I assume players could choose to stand and kneel, whichever felt right to them?

Worth watching the old black and white film of Twelve Angry Men if you've never seen it before - the moral of the film being what seems an  'apparent' (now where have I heard the word recently...?) and strongly held belief of a majority of people doesn't always mean they are correct.

Discrimination in football is the issue being addressed.

 Look at what message booing that principle sends to our own black players and to European countries that indulge in this objectionable practice. Those that boo may not feel that they are racist, but they certainly give that impression to the rest of the world!

The England cricket manager rightly asked us to imagine what Archer and Moeen would have felt if Ollie Robinson had been allowed to play in the 2nd Test against NZ, despite the foul, racist tweets having been made several years ago.
We BW fans also need to look at what disgusting things Robinson said about our own Gary Speed...

Oko, if the players and management feel that booing is an indication of racism and a rejection of the need to fight it, then that should tell you how myopic they are. I wouldn’t boo because I’m a racist, or that I’m against an anti racism agenda, l’m booing because of the underlying facts about the gesture and it’s direct links with a highly disruptive and American based organisation. Just tell me why you think it’s acceptable that the players carry a BLM badge on their shirts, an organisation currently in the process of confirming themselves as a political movement.

Until the players, managers and authorities stop this stupid and incorrect assumption that fans are booing with racist intent, we won’t get anywhere and if the only reason for continuing with it is out of stubbornness, it smacks of child mentality. Surely those in the game can come up with a better solution  to fight racism, that is firstly British and secondly unifies the non racist feeling that I believe most of us fans agree on. The booing isn’t going away as long as those within the game act like numpties and refuse to either investigate or accept the fact that linking to an American, racist (anti white) organisation is not one who should be anywhere near our game.

okocha wrote:Discrimination in football is the issue being addressed.

 Look at what message booing that principle sends to our own black players and to European countries that indulge in this objectionable practice. Those that boo may not feel that they are racist, but they certainly give that impression to the rest of the world!

The England cricket manager rightly asked us to imagine what Archer and Moeen would have felt if Ollie Robinson had been allowed to play in the 2nd Test against NZ, despite the foul, racist tweets having been made several years ago.
We BW fans also need to look at what disgusting things Robinson said about our own Gary Speed...

Yet again - they give that 'impression' so it would lead a fair minded and informed observer to conclude that there was a real possibility, or a real danger, that the decision maker was biased/racist.  

They are judged as 'assumed' racists - and not as actual ones...

And if you are going to judge what 19 year olds have said on social media and condemn them for it for the rest of their lives then there won't be many people available to play cricket for England, Australia, India, West Indies or any place else!

Robson said disgusting things about our own Gary Speed did he, if so I don't remember you saying anything when Wanderlust said worse some days back - but then again you tell us all what a fantastic person and wonderful poster he is when having one of your regular snipes at me.

I wonder why...?

As for racism in football - can you name any British club who doesn't field black players as there is absolutely none as I know of?

Whitesince63 wrote:Oko, if the players and management feel that booing is an indication of racism and a rejection of the need to fight it, then that should tell you how myopic they are. I wouldn’t boo because I’m a racist, or that I’m against an anti racism agenda, l’m booing because of the underlying facts about the gesture and it’s direct links with a highly disruptive and American based organisation. Just tell me why you think it’s acceptable that the players carry a BLM badge on their shirts, an organisation currently in the process of confirming themselves as a political movement.

Until the players, managers and authorities stop this stupid and incorrect assumption that fans are booing with racist intent, we won’t get anywhere and if the only reason for continuing with it is out of stubbornness, it smacks of child mentality. Surely those in the game can come up with a better solution  to fight racism, that is firstly British and secondly unifies the non racist feeling that I believe most of us fans agree on. The booing isn’t going away as long as those within the game act like numpties and refuse to either investigate or accept the fact that linking to an American, racist (anti white) organisation is not one who should be anywhere near our game.

They already had before any of the knee business had even started...

Kick it Out.

Kick It Out was established as a campaign with the brand name 'Let's Kick Racism Out of Football' in 1993 and as an organisation in 1997. The organisation works within the football, educational and community sectors to challenge discrimination, encourage inclusive practices and work for positive change.

The campaign is supported and funded by the game's governing bodies, including founding body the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), the Premier League and the Football Association (FA).

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I said this at the time that the football authorities should be supporting their own campaign and efforts and not jump on the bandwagon with the knee and all associated and all the politically motivated activism behind it.

Don't forget what happened next...

Watford captain Troy Deeney will trademark Black Lives Matter logo designed by him and his partner which has appeared on Premier League shirts

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They created the logo, with its clenched fist of solidarity in place of letter 'a' in the word black.

Why didn't they use their own logo instead - certainly there then would be no confusion with any other politically motivated organisations, no need to take the knee and their message on the logo couldn't be any clearer or to the point could it???

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I don't read anything that Sluffy writes these days, but I found it interesting that he was more interested in messaging me than watching the match, judging by the timing of his post. 

In answer to 63, I would simply say that he might take heed of Ashley Banjo's Brit Award acceptance speech in which he thanked the haters for illustrating exactly why BLM is still relevant and necessary.

Whitesince63 wrote:Oko, if the players and management feel that booing is an indication of racism and a rejection of the need to fight it, then that should tell you how myopic they are. I wouldn’t boo because I’m a racist, or that I’m against an anti racism agenda, l’m booing because of the underlying facts about the gesture and it’s direct links with a highly disruptive and American based organisation. Just tell me why you think it’s acceptable that the players carry a BLM badge on their shirts, an organisation currently in the process of confirming themselves as a political movement.

Until the players, managers and authorities stop this stupid and incorrect assumption that fans are booing with racist intent, we won’t get anywhere and if the only reason for continuing with it is out of stubbornness, it smacks of child mentality. Surely those in the game can come up with a better solution  to fight racism, that is firstly British and secondly unifies the non racist feeling that I believe most of us fans agree on. The booing isn’t going away as long as those within the game act like numpties and refuse to either investigate or accept the fact that linking to an American, racist (anti white) organisation is not one who should be anywhere near our game.

The gesture isn’t in support of the official Black Lives Matter. You have been told that multiple times, you choose to ignore it that’s your problem.

The gesture was chosen because it is seen to be submissive and wouldn’t generate controversy. Clearly any gesture in support of anti racism would have bought push back from a minority though.

There is no truth in what you have written, you have been had by fake news stories but it wouldn’t be hard to find the facts if you wanted to.

Discrediting anti racism as political and Marxist is an age old trope and it’s complete nonsense. They did the same to MLK but the tide is turning, just more slowly than it should because of people like you.

okocha wrote:I don't read anything that Sluffy writes these days, but I found it interesting that he was more interested in messaging me than watching the match, judging by the timing of his post. 

In answer to 63, I would simply say that he might take heed of Ashley Banjo's Brit Award acceptance speech in which he thanked the haters for illustrating exactly why BLM is still relevant and necessary.

Hahaha!!!

I preferred to message you more than anything else - don't flatter yourself!!!

I'm well able to chew gum and fart at the same time - I guess you have to do one or the other!!!

And for someone who never reads my posts it doesn't seem to stop your constant sniping at me at every opportunity does it?

I would have thought someone who claims to have ten years experience of stress management techniques would be well able to control whatever thoughts you have of me by now?

I wonder why you don't cant then...?

Whitesince63 wrote:

Well I will say it then TROY, yes I would boo because it seems to be the only way we have of making our voice heard amongst a woke, myopic club. As Sluffy says, we all display our views against racism in our own way and don’t need to have to join some group think to practise it.

"Woke myopic club" shows that you have some prejudices at least - but that's a different bandwagon.

I get that you say you "display your views against racism in your own way" - but why does that involve booing other people who are expressing their views against racism in their own way if as you claim, you have the same objective?

Thankfully the booers are a tiny and deeply unpopular minority clique and it'll be interesting to see just how long they're tolerated.

At last, a senior policeman that believes in policing. 

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It will not go down well with the Nuts Guardianista gang.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:At last, a senior policeman that believes in policing. 

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It will not go down well with the Nuts Guardianista gang.

I'm sure they could do both. I once hailed a cop car on a site I was working on to inform them that the local KFC had been broken in to. The cops informed me that they couldn't investigate it until they'd got the call through channels. I had to phone in to report it. Two hours later two different cops arrived to investigate.
Elementary my dear Watson.

boltonbonce wrote:
I'm sure they could do both. I once hailed a cop car on a site I was working on to inform them that the local KFC had been broken in to. The cops informed me that they couldn't investigate it until they'd got the call through channels. I had to phone in to report it. Two hours later two different cops arrived to investigate.
Elementary my dear Watson.

As it happens, Boncey, I know this Mr Watson and Mrs Watson. They are folk who like to get things done. A few years ago I was able to help both of them get summat done that had been suffocating in bureaucracy for about three years.

Steve's first big job in the police force was ensuring the London Olympics went well. It did go quite well as I recall. Good luck to him in GMP.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

The gesture isn’t in support of the official Black Lives Matter. You have been told that multiple times, you choose to ignore it that’s your problem.

The gesture was chosen because it is seen to be submissive and wouldn’t generate controversy. Clearly any gesture in support of anti racism would have bought push back from a minority though.

There is no truth in what you have written, you have been had by fake news stories but it wouldn’t be hard to find the facts if you wanted to.

Discrediting anti racism as political and Marxist is an age old trope and it’s complete nonsense. They did the same to MLK but the tide is turning, just more slowly than it should because of people like you.

You really are an insufferably arrogant and rude individual and clearly form part of todays woke society who just can’t accept others with different views. I haven’t been taken in by fake news unlike you who has been lulled by propaganda into the virtue signalling little world certain organisations would like you to live in. If you seriously don’t believe that the motives behind the likes of BLM aren’t both Marxist and political, then I suggest you visit their website and if the gesture isn’t supportive of the BLM organisation, then why do the players shirts display a BLM logo?

As Sluffy says, there is currently a perfectly good anti racism process already in place through kick it out, so are the authorities implying that this isn’t working and if so, why not strengthen the support and publicity around that, which has no political or ulterior intentions? Sadly, like you and the other easily influenced in society, you have been royally conned into thinking this gesture is purely an anti racist action. It’s not me who needs to get real TROY, it’s the weak, woke like you. We are clearly not going to agree on this subject, so this will be my last response to you and much like you’d want to believe that the booers will just go away, I think you will find that resistance to the knee will increase rather than fade away, until the authorities eventually see sense and remove the silly gesture and get back to fighting racism in a process we can all get behind.

Despite the Kick it Out programme it clearly isn't working and given that racism is a criminal offence the authorities need to act by arresting and charging people making racist comments online and those committing racist acts at football grounds and elsewhere.
But they don't - perhaps because as the police themselves acknowledge as far back as the MacPherson report, they are institutionally racist.

To echo Bob we need policemen who believe in policing and that means enforcing the law.

wanderlust wrote:Despite the Kick it Out programme it clearly isn't working and given that racism is a criminal offence the authorities need to act by arresting and charging people making racist comments online and those committing racist acts at football grounds and elsewhere.
But they don't - perhaps because as the police themselves acknowledge as far back as the MacPherson report, they are institutionally racist.

To echo Bob we need policemen who believe in policing and that means enforcing the law.

Totally agree!!!

Now what was it you labelled the Welsh the other day...?

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
As it happens, Boncey, I know this Mr Watson and Mrs Watson. They are folk who like to get things done. A few years ago I was able to help both of them get summat done that had been suffocating in bureaucracy for about three years.

Steve's first big job in the police force was ensuring the London Olympics went well. It did go quite well as I recall. Good luck to him in GMP.

A mate of mine served under James Anderton, and he's got some cracking stories. Most of which I can't relate.