How is the Tory government doing?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I think multiple governments have damaged public trust in politicians, cash for questions, expenses, Iraq War - so far this government have gone above and beyond all of that, and goes beyond being widespread - I see it as an intentional strategy to try and pull the wool over the electorates eyes - while attacking democratic institutions which stand in the way much like Trump, Bolsonaro, Modi and Erdogan have undertaken in their respective countries.

It's a slippery slope, we need to hold our politicians to higher standards and address the slide.

It matters a great deal how you do that too.

The more aggressively you push the more aggressively those in power will dig in and push back.

I've warned of this before and believe we have already commenced on that path.

Look at how the Republican Party in America is growing more extremely right wing and continues to promote the belief that Trump won the election - can't people see how the Conservative party in the main is echoing that by promoting the belief that Boris did no wrong or has lied?

The more aggressively people hold them to account the more entrenched and protective of their position it becomes and the harder they defend it and take steps to keep on top of things - even if that means becoming less and less accountable in their actions.

Even when holding the government to account there are right ways of going about it and wrong ways - which ultimately end up making things worse.

A bit belatedly I can't get my head around 63 being happy in a leader who lies and cheats.

Ask yourself how the opposition will have to act to get them out of office - not by playing the game honestly and honourably that's for sure!

Once people lose faith in the state - the government, politicians, the judiciary and the police - then what are you left with other than public unrest and anarchy?

Do you think the government in power at that time will put up with that or do you think they will act like China, Russia and even Kazakhstan did the other month and clap down hard on it?

If you think I'm being a bit crazy then you only have to remember that Trump supporters stormed the Capitol (their version of the Houses of Parliament) and that was completely unthinkable before they actually went and did it!

I don’t think I ever said I was happy with Boris Sluffy. What I said was that we knew what he was like when we elected him. He’s lied all the way through, he can’t help himself and he’ll never change but you have to weigh that against his positive points. He might give the impression of being a buffoon but he’s a highly intelligent and clever politician who luckily has that certain something that the electorate like. It’s a bit like women who always seem to prefer a bit of a rogue rather than the honest reliable guy. human nature I suppose.

I wouldn’t personally trust any politician because all of them are in it for themselves. Look at all the MP’s who completely ignored the Brexit result, especially those in Leave voting seats who consistently ignored them and put their own beliefs first. A referendum is one person one vote and an MP’s vote was worth no more than any constituents yet they constantly ignored it. I genuinely believe that the majority of voters, whilst agreeing Boris and his staff were out of order, are still prepared to overlook it, accept his foibles and let him get on with running the country. It’s largely also down to not having a strong opposition. Sadly we’re stuck with what we’ve got and despite his ills, most people still think he’s the best option.

Would it be fair to say you vote conservative because you see their societal views as more aligned to your own - rather than a specific set of policies?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Would it be fair to say you vote conservative because you see their societal views as more aligned to your own - rather than a specific set of policies?

Not likely Troy, no way do I believe the current Tory parties societal views are close to my own. This is the most woke, left leaning, pseudo liberal Tory party I’ve ever known. Look, I’m old now and have no time for the PC attitudes classed as normal. I do though accept that the future is for the young so I’m happy to let younger people like yourself just get on with it and reap the consequences. In the past, older more experienced voices tempered the exuberance of the young but today that’s not the case and it’s not going to change.

What I have to accept now is a Tory Party that is forced to work within the society you and your peers have created and that includes the likes of Boris. I’m afraid respect and integrity are things of the past now, basically seen as “old fashioned,” like discipline and manners. I will just have to put up with what we’ve got so basically my choice now is to vote for the party who will do the least damage to my beliefs because I’ve given up on them to do anything positive.

Daily Fail says Sunak is frustrating Boris's plans to reduce NHS backlog

Whitesince63 wrote:
Hate is a word I never use Norpig. How can you hate what you don’t know? I’m a Tory as are millions of others and though I’ve never met you in person I’m sure we could get on really well over a pint. We may disagree on many things but I’m sure we’d agree on lots more just maybe not how we achieve them. 

As for Javid, thank goodness you’re not a Tory. I fully respect Saj but I wouldn’t want him as PM. That said I wouldn’t want Rishi either, or Liz Truss and despite what your whispers tell you, none of them will get the top job because BoJo isn’t going anywhere and even if he was forced into a vote he’d win it.

I was referring to the likes of BoJo, Cameron and Rees Mogg really. These people were born with a silver spoon in their mouths and wouldn't know the real world of a working class Notherner if it came and hit them in a the face.

These people should be nowhere near being in charge of this country but they seem to think that they have a divine right to rule over us just because they went to Eton.

I grew up in the Thatcher era as well so that put me off Tories for life.

There’s absolutely no point going over the Thatcher era again Norpig because we’d clearly never agree on that but nor do I believe being born with a silver spoon in their mouths makes Boris or Moggy any less aware about real life than the likes of Stephanie Peacock, my Labour MP here in Barnsley. Like many other mainly Labour MP’s, straight out of University, into a Charity, never had a proper job then straight into Parliament knowing nothing about life in general or the constituents they’re supposed to represent. A 70% Leave vote here in the Brexit Ref yet she was still one of the foremost Remainers in Parliament. 

I’m afraid very few MP’s on all sides are really fit for purpose these days Norpig. For Labour all the old miners, seamen and the like who had come from real jobs and knew what ordinary constituents faced and equally on the Tory side, ex business leaders and entrepreneurs who knew what business was like and how to run a government economically are few and far between and we now have just career politicians more interested in their own careers. Even if you didn’t like them, or share their views, you could at least respect them but now the likes of Johnson, Javid, Starmer and co feel they have to go public with how “ordinary” they really are and what lowly backgrounds they’ve come from. Sickening really. The worlds gone mad I’m afraid when even a skinny, brainwashed Nordic teenager is lecturing the Worlds top politicians on the planets climate situation. The young have always had an opinion but sadly didn’t find out how wrong it was until they got older and discovered it the hard way. Now they’re saving the world apparently!! Madness.

WS63:- so is David Attenborough mad too?

Blojo's appointment of spin doctor Guto Harri is an interesting call.

Harri managed to get Boris re-elected as Mayor of London and then managed to minimise the damage to Rupert Murdoch's rag over the phone-hacking scandal so he has history with both puppet and puppeteer and on the surface the appointment makes sense.

But for one thing....Harri is a fervent anti-Brexiteer.

I'm sure Harri won't let his personal beliefs prevent him doing a top class spin job for Boris - but his appointment is perhaps an indicator of how desperate the situation is...especially as Harri has criticised him and questioned his honesty in the past.

okocha wrote:WS63:- so is David Attenborough mad too?

DA is so close to the subject that he will clearly lean that way. I have absolutely no doubts our climate is changing, it’s really a mute argument because it constantly changes and I have no argument about improving the environment, especially the use of plastics. I don’t even have an argument against reducing the use of fossil fuels and moving towards renewables.

I do though have a complete disregard for the scaremongering that the Earth will end by Christmas if we don’t immediately stop burning coal, gas and oil. It’s just ridiculous and if it’s true, why aren’t the Chineses, Russians and Indians convinced? They’ve seen the same “evidence.”

Whitesince63 wrote:
It’s just ridiculous and if it’s true, why aren’t the Chineses, Russians and Indians convinced? They’ve seen the same “evidence.”

I would have thought the answer to that is obvious given that the West built up an enormous economic advantage by burning fossil fuels for the last 250 years.

Whitesince63 wrote:
Not likely Troy, no way do I believe the current Tory parties societal views are close to my own. This is the most woke, left leaning, pseudo liberal Tory party I’ve ever known. Look, I’m old now and have no time for the PC attitudes classed as normal. I do though accept that the future is for the young so I’m happy to let younger people like yourself just get on with it and reap the consequences. In the past, older more experienced voices tempered the exuberance of the young but today that’s not the case and it’s not going to change.

What I have to accept now is a Tory Party that is forced to work within the society you and your peers have created and that includes the likes of Boris. I’m afraid respect and integrity are things of the past now, basically seen as “old fashioned,” like discipline and manners. I will just have to put up with what we’ve got so basically my choice now is to vote for the party who will do the least damage to my beliefs because I’ve given up on them to do anything positive.

Sorry i should have been more clear, i meant 'small c' conservative values rather than the current conservative party - which i agree are more different than they have been in my lifetime.

I'm struggling to see how you can claim to be all about respect and integrity in your personal views though when you support Johnson who's shown himself to be completely devoid of either quality.

We've covered the environment before, but the scientific consensus is overwhelming - it's not brainwashing to follow the evidence. Particularly when you haven't been able to present any evidence to the contrary so why should 'young people' go along with you?

For our PM, "sorry" seems to be the hardest word: (BBC website this morning)

Labour’s Rosena Allin-Khan told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the prime minister “should not be looking in the dark corners of the internet for lies to smear his opponents, but standing up for a better public discourse based on fact, not fiction”.
In a fierce attack on Boris Johnson, the shadow minster for mental health called on the PM to come to Parliament “and apologise unreservedly for his smears”.
“Words have consequences,” she said, echoing many of her Labour colleagues on Tuesday morning.
“We need to have responsible leaders who fight fake news and conspiracy theories - not promote them.”
“This is straight out of the Trumpian playbook. Boris Johnson has come in to public office to seize power and smear any person, or group, who stands in his way.
“There is no barrel he won’t scrape.”

wanderlust wrote:
I would have thought the answer to that is obvious given that the West built up an enormous economic advantage by burning fossil fuels for the last 250 years.

The last 250 years have nothing to do with it. It’s claimed the Earths dying now and if so why is the West the only area worried?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

Sorry i should have been more clear, i meant 'small c' conservative values rather than the current conservative party - which i agree are more different than they have been in my lifetime.

I'm struggling to see how you can claim to be all about respect and integrity in your personal views though when you support Johnson who's shown himself to be completely devoid of either quality.

We've covered the environment before, but the scientific consensus is overwhelming - it's not brainwashing to follow the evidence. Particularly when you haven't been able to present any evidence to the contrary so why should 'young people' go along with you?

Troy, the scientific consensus is not overwhelming and there is absolutely no evidence, just a series of estimated calculations from a bunch of leftie academics. We’ve seen from the Covid “experts” how accurate their numbers are. The FACT is that we don’t have any, only history. These experts like to quote temperatures and statistics since records began and completely ignore the FACT that the planet has had both hotter and colder periods plus levels of CO2 much higher than todays which had nothing to do with cows farting, fossil fuels or human activity. The only real FACT is that the whole eco argument is total bollocks. 

The Chinese and the Russians know that and have given no guarantees that they will move away from Fossil Fuels, continuing to operate more cost effectively than we do whilst our virtue signalling politicians continue to price our populations and businesses out of the market. Time to see sense and yes, move towards renewables over time without setting ridiculously unachievable and pointless timescales.

Hoyle comments on the harassment of Starmer outside Parliament. Whilst Blojo refuses to retract his comments it is interesting that he has refused to repeat them outside Parliament as he knows full well that he would be sued without parliamentary protection.

wanderlust wrote:

Dorries: No one can talk to me like that!!....I was on I'm a Celebrity, you know.....

okocha wrote:
Dorries: No one can talk to me like that!!....I was on I'm a Celebrity, you know.....

...and I'm just a woman in lurve