Ngog and Sordell not good enough - Official(ish)

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:

Except that our best run of form and results came around the turn of the year in a 4-5-1 with Ngog up top. Then Coyle inexplicably brought SKD back into the team and played a 4-4-2 when we were then beaten at home against Wigan. I honestly believe that if Ngog was played instead of SKD we'd have had a better chance of staying up.

So what about last season?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:

Except that our best run of form and results came around the turn of the year in a 4-5-1 with Ngog up top. Then Coyle inexplicably brought SKD back into the team and played a 4-4-2 when we were then beaten at home against Wigan. I honestly believe that if Ngog was played instead of SKD we'd have had a better chance of staying up.

So what about last season?

Well, I don't think anyone could argue he was better than SKD and if hadn't dislocated his shoulder he would have featured heavily in the run in and we may have had that little extra needed to make the play offs.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:

Except that our best run of form and results came around the turn of the year in a 4-5-1 with Ngog up top. Then Coyle inexplicably brought SKD back into the team and played a 4-4-2 when we were then beaten at home against Wigan. I honestly believe that if Ngog was played instead of SKD we'd have had a better chance of staying up.

So what about last season?

I can't remember him ever being asked to play striker last season.
He was asked to run around a lot.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Ngog is useless. He doesn't help the defence, he doesn't create chances, he doesn't score.

Effective hold up play is key from a defensive point of view and is a fundamental part of a team creating chances. So Ngog helps the defence and plays a key role in chances being created, whether or not he supplies the final ball.

Also, we've already established that he scored more last season than the top scorer of the league's best team. Stop saying "he doesn't score".

doffcocker wrote:

Also, we've already established that he scored more last season than the top scorer of the league's best team. Stop saying "he doesn't score".

That really is a poor reason for persisting with him. Unlike Cardiff we don't have several other players getting past 10 goals.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

doffcocker wrote:

Also, we've already established that he scored more last season than the top scorer of the league's best team. Stop saying "he doesn't score".

That really is a poor reason for persisting with him. Unlike Cardiff we don't have several other players getting past 10 goals.

Idiot. They didn't have a singe player get 10 goals.

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:[

Idiot. They didn't have a singe player get 10 goals.

So we're basing the whole argument on Cardiff City?

I'd be interested to know how many of the top 10 didn't have a striker get past 10 goals.

I'd also hazard a guess that very few teams have got out of the Championship with no striker getting to 10 goals.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:[

Idiot. They didn't have a singe player get 10 goals.

So we're basing the whole argument on Cardiff City?

I'd be interested to know how many of the top 10 didn't have a striker get past 10 goals.

I'd also hazard a guess that very few teams have got out of the Championship with no striker getting to 10 goals.

Well..there's Hull. So that's the top 2 teams this season, and no it's not the basis of the whole argument but just pointing out that to have a 20 goal a season striker is a necessity is a myth, and that because he doesn't score 20 goals a season that Ngog is a bad player is also a myth. And also that you're pulling stuff out of your arse to support your own claims.

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:

Well..there's Hull. So that's the top 2 teams this season, and no it's not the basis of the whole argument but just pointing out that to have a 20 goal a season striker is a necessity is a myth, and that because he doesn't score 20 goals a season that Ngog is a bad player is also a myth. And also that you're pulling stuff out of your arse to support your own claims.

So, in fact, the VAST MAJORITY of teams pushing for promotion have a player that has scored 15 or 20 goals?

If we'd had Kevin Phillips last season we'd have been in the play-offs. Goals win matches more than holding the ball up and passing to the opposition as Ngog usually did.

It's a long time since we've had a striker who could score, it's about time we found one. I don't care what you say, a 20 goal striker puts one foot in the play-offs before a ball is kicked.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:

Well..there's Hull. So that's the top 2 teams this season, and no it's not the basis of the whole argument but just pointing out that to have a 20 goal a season striker is a necessity is a myth, and that because he doesn't score 20 goals a season that Ngog is a bad player is also a myth. And also that you're pulling stuff out of your arse to support your own claims.

So, in fact, the VAST MAJORITY of teams pushing for promotion have a player that has scored 15 or 20 goals?

If we'd had Kevin Phillips last season we'd have been in the play-offs. Goals win matches more than holding the ball up and passing to the opposition as Ngog usually did.

It's a long time since we've had a striker who could score, it's about time we found one. I don't care what you say, a 20 goal striker puts one foot in the play-offs before a ball is kicked.

Well...you can say the' vast majority' if you like, but again you're pulling it out of your arse. Of the teams to finish in the top half (I went that far to be generous in regards your term of 'teams pushing for promotion) 4 of those 12 had a player score 15+ goals. This equates to 33.33%, which is not remotely close to being a vast majority, it is in fact a minority.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
That really is a poor reason for persisting with him. Unlike Cardiff we don't have several other players getting past 10 goals.

It's not my reason for persisting with him. Not in isolation anyhow. I just think saying "he doesn't score goals" about a player that does score goals makes you look stupid. And you wouldn't want that.

I don't think there's much weight to your counterargument here given we only scored three goals less than Cardiff all season.

I agree we need a striker who can score goals and can take advantage of Ngog's movement and passing, which is why I was disappointed we bought Cavies to replace SKD.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:

Well..there's Hull. So that's the top 2 teams this season, and no it's not the basis of the whole argument but just pointing out that to have a 20 goal a season striker is a necessity is a myth, and that because he doesn't score 20 goals a season that Ngog is a bad player is also a myth. And also that you're pulling stuff out of your arse to support your own claims.

If we'd had Kevin Phillips last season we'd have been in the play-offs.

If we got just one more point from any one of all those games where we threw it away last season we'd have been in the playoffs. When I think back to the number of games where we could have improved our points tally by not conceding silly goals there's a stronger case for sorting out the back than for buying another striker. Defence was our Achilles Heel for most of last season although I do agree we need a better out and out striker than SKD was at the end, and Cavies and Eaves were at the end of last season.