Bolton to quit FA Cup

xmiles wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Guess what, there's a Richard Littlejohn article echoing the thoughts of "Natasha Whittam" in the Mail today, another "skilled" troll who uses high profile events to get his troll hat on. Apparently he was at White Hart Lane for the game, A spurs fan of course.

I bet he was scribbling notes as Muamba was carried off, "woahhh how can i rile people up on this one"

I can't stand the Daily Mail, one of the few rags I never read.

However, the Littlejohn article is spot on - typical of you to brand him a "troll" for speaking the truth.

He states people don't worship God anymore, they worship footballers and z-list celebs. This is true. People on this site have made it quite clear they don't believe in God and often ridicule him - yet those same people are saying "pray for Muamba" at every opportunity.

He also says the whole Gary Speed saga was over the top - completely true.

And he pointed out what I had already said - Wolves & United acted like Muamba was dead.

If being a "troll" is telling the truth, I declare myself a troll.

I know the "debate" has moved on a bit but I have to say I agree with what Nat says above. The Daily Mail is not something I would normally waste my time reading but I did look at the Littlejohn article. It made a lot of sense to me. I am not ignoring the personal tragedy of what happened to Muamba or pretending that it didn't affect other people but the excess of public grief is over the top. Apparently the Sunderland team visited the Reebok to "pay their respect" today. This just seems ridiculous to me. I don't doubt their sincerity but it is not a proportionate response.

This is not trolling, which is something I despise.

Just read that they are opening the chairmans suite so people can go and pray and have quite reflection. It's open now if anyone wants to go. It's just going a bit too far now.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
If that tragedy doesn't affect me personally or anyone on the forum then yes, I think it's fine to debate it as soon as possible. And when I say affect, I don't mean these fools who cry over people they've never met.

But you're not in a position to know who on the forum has met who or knows who personally. Surely it's reasonable to imagine there might be someone reading your comments on a Bolton Wandebrers forum who might know a recent former player well enough to be seriously affected by their suicide? Fair enough, we can't crawl around on egg shells every time we have a conversation in life and in theory it's the same on the internet, but this is why there is usually a respectable amount of time elapsed after someone dies before people start to think about this stuff.

Similarly, Kevin Davies yesterday day time said that BWFC haven't even begun to think about what the future is in the FA Cup this season. Not because Muamba had died or because it's not important to resolve it but because in the immediate aftermath of a serious event, everything else is rightly put on the backburner out of respect.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
The Gary Speed one was a perfect example. No one on BA knew Gary Speed but you'd think the site was made up of his close family the way some people reacted. Gary Speed killed himself, a sin where I come from. He also killed himself with no thought for his wife or kids who were bound to find his body.

Earlier in this discussion you said that I think I am the only one whose opinion matters. But here, you're talking about suicide as wrong because it is a sin, however, your righteousness does not extend to keeping that big trap of yours shut out of a common decency. Or not admitting to it anyway. Like I say, you didn't post anything about how footballers are all a bunch of twats on Saturday or Sunday, did you?

Also I think is absolutely bloody rich that you describe Speed's suicide as a sin and seem to think that others who have religious faith are overreacting in their prayers, again, based on your delight at the Littlejohn article.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
And where is this vicious bile I've been spouting about Muamba? Once again you just make stuff up to support your point of view. I've said nothing negative about the player himself. My problem is with the way the whole thing has been handled by the club, media and fans. HE DID NOT DIE, STOP ACTING LIKE HE DID.

I didn't say you have posted any vicious bile about Muamba. You just made that up to support your point of view.

The vicious bile I refer to is a reference to your ongoing vendetta against footballers in general, which has reached a point where you seek to ridicule those who do not share your complete contempt, champion the views of the most hated right wing journalist in the mainstream press and accuse anyone with respect for the sensitivty of the situation of over-reacting. I am well aware he has not died.

largehat wrote:But you're not in a position to know who on the forum has met who or knows who personally. Surely it's reasonable to imagine there might be someone reading your comments on a Bolton Wandebrers forum who might know a recent former player well enough to be seriously affected by their suicide? Fair enough, we can't crawl around on egg shells every time we have a conversation in life and in theory it's the same on the internet, but this is why there is usually a respectable amount of time elapsed after someone dies before people start to think about this stuff.

While there's a small chance someone on here knows Muamba or knew Gary Speed, it's highly unlikely. This is shaping up to be a Larry David conundrum - how long should you leave it before you discuss the death or injury of someone on a football forum? Largehat, if it bothers you just don't read the thread! It's like moaning about Eastenders being on the tv, you could easily change the channel and watch something else.

largehat wrote:Similarly, Kevin Davies yesterday day time said that BWFC haven't even begun to think about what the future is in the FA Cup this season. Not because Muamba had died or because it's not important to resolve it but because in the immediate aftermath of a serious event, everything else is rightly put on the backburner out of respect.

I don't believe anyone supports BWFC dropping out of the FA Cup. Kevin Davies has made himself look like a right tit (again) by not giving some sort of rallying call like "we're going to win the Cup for Fabrice" which is what a proper leader would have done. When my dog died I didn't take 4 weeks off work to grieve and I certainly didn't let my work chums have time off because they witnessed Supa John choke on a chicken bone. Life is tough, get on with it.

largehat wrote:Earlier in this discussion you said that I think I am the only one whose opinion matters. But here, you're talking about suicide as wrong because it is a sin, however, your righteousness does not extend to keeping that big trap of yours shut out of a common decency. Or not admitting to it anyway. Like I say, you didn't post anything about how footballers are all a bunch of twats on Saturday or Sunday, did you?

Suicide is wrong, it says so in the bible. I believe in God so I believe suicide to be a sin the same way it's a sin to murder someone. If Owen Coyle shot David Ngog for missing an open goal would we have to wait a length of time to discuss it out of "common decency"? Of course not so suicide is no different. Surely you can see suicide is selfish?

largehat wrote:The vicious bile I refer to is a reference to your ongoing vendetta against footballers in general, which has reached a point where you seek to ridicule those who do not share your complete contempt, champion the views of the most hated right wing journalist in the mainstream press and accuse anyone with respect for the sensitivty of the situation of over-reacting. I am well aware he has not died.

I read the article and said it was fair, I don't base my opinion on whether someone is right wing, left wing or centre forward. I base it on the facts in front of me.

And yes, the majority of professional footballers are twats.

Looks like we will be playing the quater final again: -

Wanderers will honour their FA Cup quarter-final obligations against Tottenham, with a decision expected to be announced in the next 24 hours.

After a continued improvement in Fabrice Muamba’s condition and discussions with the midfielder’s family and the squad yesterday, the decision has been taken to continue efforts to land a place in the semi-final against Chelsea at Wembley.

It is understood that the game will take place on Tuesday, March 27, at White Hart Lane but ticketing details are, as yet, unclear.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

We're back to square one on the main point of our discussion, however, you do raise a couple of new things in your most recent post.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
I don't believe anyone supports BWFC dropping out of the FA Cup. Kevin Davies has made himself look like a right tit (again) by not giving some sort of rallying call like "we're going to win the Cup for Fabrice" which is what a proper leader would have done.

I don't believe anyone supports BWFC dropping out of the FA Cup right now as I type, but the situation was different when this thread was created and when Kevin Davies spoke to the media on Monday afternoon. At that point, one of his team mates was critically ill, he had watched him have a cardiac arrest and gone with his stricken friend in the back of an ambulance and watched while he fought for his life. Why you think he has made a tit of himself by saying "we're not thinking about the FA Cup right now, all our focus is on Fabrice" is something I'll never understand. It's probably fuelled by your desire to be the forum gobshite more than anything else.

And if and when we didn't win the FA Cup because we would have to beat Tottenham away, Chelsea at Wembley, then one of Liverpool, Sunderland and Everton at Wembley, I am certain you'd be the first person to say "what a tit for saying we would win it".

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Suicide is wrong, it says so in the bible.

If you're going to move from Jeremy Clarkson and Richard Littlejohn to the Bible to justify your outlandish views, fine, but tell me what was Mary Magdelene doing in John V.20 Chapter 1? Instead of grieving and getting upset over Jesus, she should have been getting on with it, right? He's been dead for three days.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
I believe in God so I believe suicide to be a sin the same way it's a sin to murder someone.

It's a genuine surprise to me you've gone down the God-fearing Christian route. Thanks for sharing your view on this, but we can debate the ethics of suicide another time. I do know that you should try walking for an hour in another man's shoes before you judge him, and that you demonstrated a limited understanding of mental illness in a recent debate.

OneOinCoyle wrote:

Just read that they are opening the chairmans suite so people can go and pray and have quite reflection. It's open now if anyone wants to go. It's just going a bit too far now.

The time of quiet reflection for an average footballer who is recovering in hospital is laughable.As are the attempts from the club to make out it's a caring, family club in recent days.
This is a club where none of the players bothered with a planned "Meet the Players" Junior Whites event until two of them were forced to turn up half way through it when Gary Megson was manager.

Sorry i don't see the correlation between a totally asinine meet the players event and a player fighting for his life in hospital.

i also don't see why any emphasis should be placed on the quality of the footballer.

I suppose if Messi had suffered a similar fate the reaction would be justified.

nice try but you're talking rubbish.

Harold77 wrote:

OneOinCoyle wrote:

Just read that they are opening the chairmans suite so people can go and pray and have quite reflection. It's open now if anyone wants to go. It's just going a bit too far now.

The time of quiet reflection for an average footballer who is recovering in hospital is laughable.As are the attempts from the club to make out it's a caring, family club in recent days.
This is a club where none of the players bothered with a planned "Meet the Players" Junior Whites event until two of them were forced to turn up half way through it when Gary Megson was manager.

We were a different club back then, but that is a discussion about Gary Megson that has probably been done to death.

As for Nat, it's interesting that this emphasis on religion has crept into your posts nat, i certainly don't remember it at all until very very recently on BA.

Quite honestly i doubt the integrity of it and would suggest it's just another way for you to rile people knowing full well a large number of people are not religious.

The time of quiet reflection for an average footballer who is recovering in hospital is laughable.As are the attempts from the club to make out it's a caring, family club in recent days.[/quote]
If I shared your cynicism about the club's motives I would be thinking that all this talk about postponing matches is a shoddy attempt to buy time whilst the players and team start to get their act together. However I don't.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Sorry i don't see the correlation between a totally asinine meet the players event and a player fighting for his life in hospital.

i also don't see why any emphasis should be placed on the quality of the footballer.

1.Players not bothering with the fans junior supporters shows it isn't exactly one big happy family.Only when it suits them.

2.If a living legend and I can only really think of Okocha in recent times had suffered a heart attack and survived representing the club then I can sort of get the outpouring of grief and church service.But not for just anybody on the clubs playing staff.For similar reasons that Bobby Charlton's funeral will be a much bigger event than Ralph Milnes

Well i think you have a warped world view if you think we should care less about individuals based on their footballing ability, but you're entitled to hold that view.

Wow, you really sound like a heartless bastard.

We have to play the game. A mark of respect for a player who is alive ? I am pretty certain that Muamba would rather we try to win the cup. It could set him back in his recovery if he thinks we dropped out of the cup because of something that happened to him that he couldn't control anyway. I don't remember Liverpool dropping out of the FA Cup as a mark of respect to the people who died at Hillsborough. More likely we want to drop out so that it's at least one less game to cram in during our survival fight in the Prem.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Well i think you have a warped world view if you think we should care less about individuals based on their footballing ability, but you're entitled to hold that view.

Why do you think Bolton had a remembrance service for Nat Lofthouse recently but they don't for other ex players that have passed on?

The answer is that he was one of the club's greatest players.That's how it is.

There won't be remembrance services at the Reebok for Mark Came and Steve Elliott in the future.

I must have missed the part where grief has become a competition.

It certainly seems it is nowadays.

"You're concerned about Muamba? Give over he can't shoot!"

Harold, if you don't like the idea of the club providing space one evening for fans and members of the community to engage in quiet reflection, I suggest you don't go. I don't see how you've become inflamed about it.

Others benefited from it and attended. Where's the problem in the situation? There doesn't seem to be one.

Well the game is going ahead.
Just our luck if QPR beat Liverpool tonight and pile more pressure on our lads.