Should Freedman get the sack?

We've not improved as a team in all the time he's been here, but with their being a total lack of funds this of course is not helping.  I can't wait for the end if the season so we can get rid of the players on high wages who are playing their parts in making things very difficult to improve.

CEF wrote:Natasha, who do you support now? I didn't know you had deserted our sinking ship!?

Apparently she now supports Chorley CEF. I didn't realise my own home town was being polluted I mean graced by her presence.  

Reebok Trotter wrote:Seriously Scott, I don't buy that they don't care. Dougie has said they will be back in training tomorrow  and I'm sure the players would prefer to have a lie-in instead.

So because their boss forces them to train that means they care?

BoltonTillIDie wrote:We've not improved as a team in all the time he's been here, but with their being a total lack of funds this of course is not helping.  I can't wait for the end if the season so we can get rid of the players on high wages who are playing their parts in making things very difficult to improve.

I get paid to manage a team at work.

If they're not performing, I don't have the luxury of being able to walk into my boss' office and say "The reason we're not hitting our targets is that lot. They're just not good enough so I want you to get rid of them and bring in some new faces."

I would be told in no uncertain terms that I was being paid to get the best out of them and if I couldn't do it, then I would be the one looking for a new job, not them.

How is Freedman any different?

Breadman wrote:

If they're not performing, I don't have the luxury of being able to walk into my boss' office and say "The reason we're not hitting our targets is that lot. They're just not good enough so I want you to get rid of them and bring in some new faces."

I would be told in no uncertain terms that I was being paid to get the best out of them and if I couldn't do it, then I would be the one looking for a new job, not them.

How is Freedman any different?

Exactly. Somewhere along the line we seem to have forgotten that part of the managers role is to improve the players he has - not to simply replace them.

He has to go after today.

Chorley eh!!

I moved from Bolton to Preston and have just moved to Buckshaw Village. I see the BWFC squad running past my house twice a week. Also a number of the squad are neighbours. But deserting BWFC is sacrilege!! Nat, hang your headin shame!!

Breadman wrote:

BoltonTillIDie wrote:We've not improved as a team in all the time he's been here, but with their being a total lack of funds this of course is not helping.  I can't wait for the end if the season so we can get rid of the players on high wages who are playing their parts in making things very difficult to improve.

I get paid to manage a team at work.

If they're not performing, I don't have the luxury of being able to walk into my boss' office and say "The reason we're not hitting our targets is that lot. They're just not good enough so I want you to get rid of them and bring in some new faces."

I would be told in no uncertain terms that I was being paid to get the best out of them and if I couldn't do it, then I would be the one looking for a new job, not them.

How is Freedman any different?

Freedman is a football manager.

Breadman wrote:

BoltonTillIDie wrote:We've not improved as a team in all the time he's been here, but with their being a total lack of funds this of course is not helping.  I can't wait for the end if the season so we can get rid of the players on high wages who are playing their parts in making things very difficult to improve.

I get paid to manage a team at work.

God help them.

Eyes Right


Stand straight
Right then lads, round up the pussy


We'll go down with pride and smiles on our faces
There'll be no doom and gloom around here.

We'll all enjoy the crack in the lower reaches. You've done it once and will do it again.
Do it with pride, uphold the honour of the badge
But remember we are the boys who make no noise.

God bless you all, good luck and happy hunting.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Breadman wrote:

If they're not performing, I don't have the luxury of being able to walk into my boss' office and say "The reason we're not hitting our targets is that lot. They're just not good enough so I want you to get rid of them and bring in some new faces."

I would be told in no uncertain terms that I was being paid to get the best out of them and if I couldn't do it, then I would be the one looking for a new job, not them.

How is Freedman any different?

Exactly. Somewhere along the line we seem to have forgotten that part of the managers role is to improve the players he has - not to simply replace them.

He has to go after today.

While I agree with your basic sentiment I would point out that football is one of the very few places where the employees are paid more than the management and have much more real power. A manager can't really do much to make a player toe the line if that player goes off the rails and the agents and players hold the keys to a club's success whether we as fans like it or not. The best managers know how to get around that but such managers don't come to clubs like ours they go to bayern or barca or man city and chelsea where they have unlimited resources to get rid of those they don't want and bring in quality without worrying about costs. We get the other managers, the ones who can't get the big jobs because they aren't a saf or a guardiola or a mourinho. Of that second (or third) tier of managers I doubt there are any who could wave a magic wand and make things better here because we not only have no resources, we're stuck in a hole so deep daylight has to be imported from Australia. 

In the summer we lose a number of high wage players on free transfers but even with the subsequent release of their wage funds there's no guarantee we'll be able to attract players of quality at an affordable price or be able to fund it if we could. that 170 million pound debt is real no matter how many soundbites the boardroom issue about it being equity and it has to be serviced or we'll face the FFP rules and a transfer embargo. Right now DF or anyone else would be caught between a rock and a hard place.

If relegation is in your plans then keep Doog by all means.  Put a caretaker in charge till end of season or make a move for our next real manager. It will cost money .....but we will have to eat it.
Bring a guy in now so that he can judge the players.....don't wait until the season ends and whoever has no chance to evauluate.

terenceanne wrote:If relegation is in your plans then keep Doog by all means.  Put a caretaker in charge till end of season or make a move for our next real manager. It will cost money .....but we will have to eat it.
Bring a guy in now so that he can judge the players.....don't wait until the season ends and whoever has no chance to evauluate.

terenceanne my personal feeling is this. Dougie has a contract that expires in the summer. Between now and then we should be taking a quiet look around at who else may be available then and if we find someone then by all means give them the nod as soon as DF's contract expires. I wouldn't complain if Dougie were sacked now but I feel it would be a waste of money that we don't really have if we put him on 'gardening leave' or paid him up while paying someone else to try and fix the existing mess with no resources and with those high earning bench warmers still in place. I am angry, truly furious at what happened today but the malaise in our club runs much deeper than this and the cause is much higher up the tree. For my money the first bullet fired should be into Phil Gartside's butt. 

The finances are so woeful that I doubt any really good manager would want this job and with the likes of Mears drawing more than twenty K a week to do nothing until the summer why would they? It's not as if anything can be done about the playing personnel any time soon and the sad truth is they aren't good enough no matter who's at the helm. Unless we offload a whole bunch of overpaid underperformers either on loan or by release then the manager has nothing to play with and no way to fix the long term screw up that this club has been allowed to become. 

Talent like Okocha and Gudjohnsen don't come here now; even the old stars like Djorkaeff can earn massive money either in America or China now and don't need to play in small towns in Northern England for one last payday. The best we can hope to be is like the White Hot years when we got the odd really promising kid and sold him on at a profit to a 'big club' later. But to do even that is harder now because the 'big clubs' are buying fourteen and fifteen year olds for a million quid or more just to lock up that young talent for themselves. The haves and Have nots get further apart every year and unless something radically changes in how football is governed and things like TV and sponsorship money is distributed that will only get worse. 

I know I sound very negative but this feels even gloomier than when we had 'Normid' in the car park. In fact I'd say the postion today is worse than that of the eighties, we weren't in a debt hole big enough to hide the US Navy in then. I don't just fear for our league position today, I fear for the very existence of the club in ten years time if not sooner.

Dougie's contracted until 2015 isn't he?

I'm beginning to turn against Freedman, if I'm honest. I liked the calm approach after the rabbit in the headlight approach by Coyle. However, no matter how you look at it, and for whatever reason, he has not improved the club one iota. He is not getting the best out of the players. He is not providing encouragement and confidence to the players, or the fans with his tactics. He won't make the club any money when he sells players, because he hasn't brought any one, even though he promise it. He is managing to bring down our already shaky reputation, week by week. I see no way that he can improve over a sustained period, i.e. the rest of the season, and so no reason why we shouldn't have somebody step up. even temporarily. Even if we stay up, I see no light at the end of the tunnel. While were at it, lets get rid of Gartside, who seems completely incapable of identifying anything more than a wannabe manager, who really doesn't have the credentials, when put to the test. For a professional team to lose as abjectly as we did today, something must be done, because, despite all the excuses, there's something seriously wrong.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

terenceanne wrote:If relegation is in your plans then keep Doog by all means.  Put a caretaker in charge till end of season or make a move for our next real manager. It will cost money .....but we will have to eat it.
Bring a guy in now so that he can judge the players.....don't wait until the season ends and whoever has no chance to evauluate.

terenceanne my personal feeling is this. Dougie has a contract that expires in the summer. Between now and then we should be taking a quiet look around at who else may be available then and if we find someone then by all means give them the nod as soon as DF's contract expires. I wouldn't complain if Dougie were sacked now but I feel it would be a waste of money that we don't really have if we put him on 'gardening leave' or paid him up while paying someone else to try and fix the existing mess with no resources and with those high earning bench warmers still in place. I am angry, truly furious at what happened today but the malaise in our club runs much deeper than this and the cause is much higher up the tree. For my money the first bullet fired should be into Phil Gartside's butt. 

The finances are so woeful that I doubt any really good manager would want this job and with the likes of Mears drawing more than twenty K a week to do nothing until the summer why would they? It's not as if anything can be done about the playing personnel any time soon and the sad truth is they aren't good enough no matter who's at the helm. Unless we offload a whole bunch of overpaid underperformers either on loan or by release then the manager has nothing to play with and no way to fix the long term screw up that this club has been allowed to become. 

Talent like Okocha and Gudjohnsen don't come here now; even the old stars like Djorkaeff can earn massive money either in America or China now and don't need to play in small towns in Northern England for one last payday. The best we can hope to be is like the White Hot years when we got the odd really promising kid and sold him on at a profit to a 'big club' later. But to do even that is harder now because the 'big clubs' are buying fourteen and fifteen year olds for a million quid or more just to lock up that young talent for themselves. The haves and Have nots get further apart every year and unless something radically changes in how football is governed and things like TV and sponsorship money is distributed that will only get worse. 

I know I sound very negative but this feels even gloomier than when we had 'Normid' in the car park. In fact I'd say the postion today is worse than that of the eighties, we weren't in a debt hole big enough to hide the US Navy in then. I don't just fear for our league position today, I fear for the very existence of the club in ten years time if not sooner.

Since when is Dougie out of contract in the summer?

A Palace forum poster wrote:He clearly thought he was bigger than the football club.

I've no issues with anyone moving jobs for better security/money, but to then come out with the 'I couldn't put my family at risk anymore' line as if he was some sort of single mother living on the poverty line showed the real 'class' of the man.

I don't want us to sack him but I'd feed his starving children for as long as possible if he resigned.

as much as i'd like him to fuck right off now, it won't happen until at least the summer. I don't want him to be in charge next season though. I agree with Culcheths comments entirely.

This is my take on it, Dougie stays, but Lenny gets potted, what exactly does that owd cunt bring to the party? give Sammy Lee a role with the first team, ok useless manager, but great coach, Freedman could learn a lot from him, in short Freedman is getting fuck all assistance from Lenny, time to go.

Dougie would never allow Lawrence to go unless they both got sacked IMO.

However I do agree with you on giving Lee the assistant managers role, he is wasted at the club at the moment.

For God's sake keep Sammy Lee as far away as possible from anything that matters. The man's a power mad deluded idiot midget. Making him assistant manager would just encourage him. If we did get shut of Dougie he'd be pushing for the managers job again and Gartside is just daft enough to give him another chance given the fact we can't afford anybody else.I really couldn't go through all that again.