It's crazy Islamist time again!

I know, I was about at the time.

In fact the speach is really nothing to do at all about violence and more to do with the changing balance of population, culture and ethenticity in this country if unregulated immigration was allowed to continue.

It was.

We have now got a changing balance of population, culture and ethenticity in this country.

I thought Powell was a bonkers at the time - how could a towns say like Bolton, up and down the country ever change just because a few asian families wanted to live here or there?

My family roots are from Halliwell and Daubill.

Things have certainly changed a hell of a lot more than this naive, liberal thinking do gooder as I was at the time could ever imagine.

And not necessarily for the better.

Can't say I'm bothered about the changing balance of culture and ethnicity, I think multiculturalism (when it works) is something to be proud of. More needs to be done to integrate communities though, and speeches like Powell's have only hindered that IMO. It instantly framed immigration in an aggressive racial way, which it didn't necessarily need to be.

Having said that although a lot of issues are wildly exaggerated by the media I do think there's a problem with over-crowding in some areas, and it's stretching core services too far. That's where my issue with it lies and this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels.

Time to get the cleaners in.

The ethnic cleansing Co,cleansing communities like Bosnia of its Muslim population.

Call Serbianmilitia@ethniccleansing.com.

Your friendly moslem sweep up crew.

bwfc1874 wrote:Can't say I'm bothered about the changing balance of culture and ethnicity, I think multiculturalism (when it works) is something to be proud of. More needs to be done to integrate communities though, and speeches like Powell's have only hindered that IMO. It instantly framed immigration in an aggressive racial way, which it didn't necessarily need to be.

Having said that although a lot of issues are wildly exaggerated by the media I do think there's a problem with over-crowding in some areas, and it's stretching core services too far. That's where my issue with it lies and this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels.

Just a few notes in response.

Integration can only take place when both sides of the community want it to happen.  The Government now accept that multiculturalism as failed because immigrants by and large don't want to give up their own identity and tend to stick together - indeed this can be exampled by the British themselves who often live and socialise abroad in 'ex-pat' communities.

There was racial aggression long before Powell's speach - 'Paki bashing' was one of the things the hooligans of the 60's and 70's used to do back then.

Demand on services obviously increases if there is a growing population.  

The fairly recent influx of Polish and other eastern europeans cetain highlighted the urgent demand for housing, education and health facilities.

As for your last sentence - "...this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels".  If you do actually play the video above, I think you may be surprised to find out that this was more or less the very point that Powell was making!

Sluffy wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Can't say I'm bothered about the changing balance of culture and ethnicity, I think multiculturalism (when it works) is something to be proud of. More needs to be done to integrate communities though, and speeches like Powell's have only hindered that IMO. It instantly framed immigration in an aggressive racial way, which it didn't necessarily need to be.

Having said that although a lot of issues are wildly exaggerated by the media I do think there's a problem with over-crowding in some areas, and it's stretching core services too far. That's where my issue with it lies and this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels.

Just a few notes in response.

Integration can only take place when both sides of the community want it to happen.  The Government now accept that multiculturalism as failed because immigrants by and large don't want to give up their own identity and tend to stick together - indeed this can be exampled by the British themselves who often live and socialise abroad in 'ex-pat' communities.

There was racial aggression long before Powell's speach - 'Paki bashing' was one of the things the hooligans of the 60's and 70's used to so back then.

Demand on services obviously increases if there is a growing population.  

The fairly recent influx of Polish and other eastern europeans cetain highlighted the urgent demand for housing, education and health facilities.

As for your last sentence - "...this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels".  If you do actually play the video above, I think you may be surprised to find out that this was more or less the very points that Powell was making!

I've watched the speech plenty of times (as I've already said) and have watched it again tonight. Of course some of his basic points are correct, but that doesn't make his approach correct and in my opinion it's done far more harm than good.

There are plenty of examples of integration working fine and families getting involved in their local communities in a positive way. So I dispute your opening paragraph unless you can back it up with any sort of evidence.

bwfc1874 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Can't say I'm bothered about the changing balance of culture and ethnicity, I think multiculturalism (when it works) is something to be proud of. More needs to be done to integrate communities though, and speeches like Powell's have only hindered that IMO. It instantly framed immigration in an aggressive racial way, which it didn't necessarily need to be.

Having said that although a lot of issues are wildly exaggerated by the media I do think there's a problem with over-crowding in some areas, and it's stretching core services too far. That's where my issue with it lies and this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels.

Just a few notes in response.

Integration can only take place when both sides of the community want it to happen.  The Government now accept that multiculturalism as failed because immigrants by and large don't want to give up their own identity and tend to stick together - indeed this can be exampled by the British themselves who often live and socialise abroad in 'ex-pat' communities.

There was racial aggression long before Powell's speach - 'Paki bashing' was one of the things the hooligans of the 60's and 70's used to so back then.

Demand on services obviously increases if there is a growing population.  

The fairly recent influx of Polish and other eastern europeans cetain highlighted the urgent demand for housing, education and health facilities.

As for your last sentence - "...this is where the government needs to do something either to rethink the system or slow down the net immigration levels".  If you do actually play the video above, I think you may be surprised to find out that this was more or less the very points that Powell was making!

I've watched the speech plenty of times (as I've already said) and have watched it again tonight. Of course some of his basic points are correct, but that doesn't make his approach correct and in my opinion it's done far more harm than good.

There are plenty of examples of integration working fine and families getting involved in their local communities in a positive way. So I dispute your opening paragraph unless you can back it up with any sort of evidence.

Easily -

State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

David Cameron has criticised "state multiculturalism" in his first speech as prime minister on radicalisation and the causes of terrorism.

At a security conference in Munich, he argued the UK needed a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to all kinds of extremism.

He also signalled a tougher stance on groups promoting Islamist extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

Cameron pandering to the UKIP voters isn't empirical evidence. 

If you read back I said in my first response to you that it hasn't worked everywhere. My point was (and still is) that it's worked in some places and therefore you can't write it off as never going to happen.

Well I either believe some annonomous person on an obsure footy forum on the internet or the current Prime Minister of this country who said internationally to the worlds press that "state multiculturalism" as failed here.

Give me a few moments whilst I have a think about which one of you two is the better briefed and informed on this matter?

1874 Fucking Students u r one of them get a job n cut your hair.

Sluffy wrote:Well I either believe some annonomous person on an obsure footy forum on the internet or the current Prime Minister of this country who said internationally to the worlds press that "state multiculturalism" as failed here.

Give me a few moments whilst I have a think about which one of you two is the better briefed and informed on this matter?

Disappointed that you can't have a reasonable debate considering your position on this forum.

But let's assume you are correct then, what's your point? What do you want to do about it? Nobody wants to integrate and multiculturalism is impossible so what now?

I tried to have a reasonable debate, I even provided a source link to back it up.

The choice is fairly clear, either you know more about this than Her Majesty's current government, or they know more about it than you.

I know which one I think is more informed.

Irrespective of my position on this forum, I am never abusive to anyone, either on here or in real life.

As to my point - I never had one.  I simply posted up Powell's speach in respect of an earlier comment, and mused about how much of the central theme of it as come to pass.  Indeed you even (inadvertantly) posted the same concern as Powell was raising!

I've no answer to what should happen to bring people who live in this country, who have different, religion, cultures and heritages together.  In fact I don't believe it can be done.

We simply can't stop trying though or maybe the 'rivers of blood' bit might turn out to be a true prophecy too - and non of us would welcome that.

Well my shares of kill your Moslem Infestation at ethniccleansing@serbiamilitia.com would go through the roof.
Can you imagine the advertisement.We guarantee to clear your Moslem infestation or your money back.Theres even a ten year Guarantee,that should the problem arise again we will send one of our dedicated Fully trained Murder Squads.
You will even receive a free gift for enquiring.Call our friendly team today to enquire.
Enoch was right not on the colour 100% but in immigration in general.I just don't like Moslems Islam,although I thought Muhammad was a great boxer though Rumble in the Jungle.

A prime example is it's 5-03 AM and after I've had my breakfast I'm on the Road to my first job in Birmingham.
Believe it or not if I get back in 12 hours I will be happy,a big lump of taxes to these fucking immigrants on the gravy train even if they work they have ten kids,how many pakis can you get in a Datsun was the old joke from years ago.They all hate us.
Sluffy is completely write Multi Culturism in Moslems integrating in to the British way of life will never happen EVER!

1874 is a poncey student or University Graduate,knows everything about everything but in reality knows Fuck all about life.Probably tucked up in Bed till his Mammy shouts your "your boiled Egg's done son,and I've cut your toast in to little soldiers for you."
Then he'll roll in to a lecture at 11Am and after that discuss the Worlds energy crisis with Zara and Felicity.
Fucking Students I'm taking a Degree in Ancient Greek Philosophers BOLLOX !

My taxes keeping these know it alls in warm class rooms n poncey lecturers.Breakfast is served.
Take Bacon away from me and I'll fly a fooking plane in to a building.Moslems ooooohhhhuwwww!

White84 wrote:1874 Fucking Students u r one of them get a job n cut your hair.

Oh for Dr Marten's apocalypse!! 

Sluffy wrote:I tried to have a reasonable debate, I even provided a source link to back it up.

The choice is fairly clear, either you know more about this than Her Majesty's current government, or they know more about it than you.

I know which one I think is more informed.

Irrespective of my position on this forum, I am never abusive to anyone, either on here or in real life.

As to my point - I never had one.  I simply posted up Powell's speach in respect of an earlier comment, and mused about how much of the central theme of it as come to pass.  Indeed you even (inadvertantly) posted the same concern as Powell was raising!

I've no answer to what should happen to bring people who live in this country, who have different, religion, cultures and heritages together.  In fact I don't believe it can be done.

We simply can't stop trying though or maybe the 'rivers of blood' bit might turn out to be a true prophecy too - and non of us would welcome that.

I've said multiculturalism has failed in some areas and more needs to be done to encourage it.

You're now saying you agree even though you don't think it will make a difference. I don't really see why you couldn't have said that in the first place.

As for Cameron, I don't think you're naive as to believe every word that comes out of any politicians mouth is the unquestionable truth, they've all got agendas. There are plenty of examples where multiculturalism has worked and plenty where it hasn't.

bwfc1874 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:I tried to have a reasonable debate, I even provided a source link to back it up.

The choice is fairly clear, either you know more about this than Her Majesty's current government, or they know more about it than you.

I know which one I think is more informed.

Irrespective of my position on this forum, I am never abusive to anyone, either on here or in real life.

As to my point - I never had one.  I simply posted up Powell's speach in respect of an earlier comment, and mused about how much of the central theme of it as come to pass.  Indeed you even (inadvertantly) posted the same concern as Powell was raising!

I've no answer to what should happen to bring people who live in this country, who have different, religion, cultures and heritages together.  In fact I don't believe it can be done.

We simply can't stop trying though or maybe the 'rivers of blood' bit might turn out to be a true prophecy too - and non of us would welcome that.

I've said multiculturalism has failed in some areas and more needs to be done to encourage it.

You're now saying you agree even though you don't think it will make a difference. I don't really see why you couldn't have said that in the first place.

As for Cameron, I don't think you're naive as to believe every word that comes out of any politicians mouth is the unquestionable truth, they've all got agendas. There are plenty of examples where multiculturalism has worked and plenty where it hasn't.

The problem with the issue of multiculturalism is the extreme "all or nothing" perpectives brought to the discussion table.

Should we be tolerant of other cultures and integrate their practices into British culture? Well broadly speaking yes because that's what we've done for thousands of years to arrive at what we now perceive as being "British" - even though that's very different from being British 200 or 500 years ago.

But should we accept everything? I don't think so. Some practices such as female genital mutilation and aspects of arranged marriages are morally reprehensible to us, whilst other practices are merely different.

Completely agree Wanderlust, I think that's the point of integration isn't it? Compromising between two cultures to create a middle ground which everybody clearly respects and understands. Practices like FGM clearly don't fall into that.

I have a problem with halal meat.........so I eat pork!!!
How numb is it not to have bacon on toast with some HP?
Backward in the extreme.

Soul Kitchen wrote:I have a problem with halal meat.........so I eat pork!!!
How numb is it not to have bacon on toast with some HP?
Backward in the extreme.

Those who follow the Jewish faith, wouldn't think its backwards and funnily enough the Jewish faith is the father/mother to Christianity!

Integration does exist and it is successful it is just that many adults do not see it.

All on has to do is look at school children - especially primary school children, and see how they get on with other children of other faiths and colours with not one ounce of animosity between them!  In fact us adults could learn a lot from children about getting along with others!