Sean Dyche - a question for Copper

As would seem likely Burnley struggle for much of the season at or near the bottom of the table, would 'you' sack him?

I've felt a bit sorry for a number of managers who have got teams up recently, only to be sacked half way into the season in an attempt to bring someone else in and stay up - Chris Houghton, Brian McDermott and Nigel Askins all spring to mind - seems loyalty quickly goes out the window sometimes.

I don't want to put you on the spot, so please read 'you' as Burnley fans.

A suplementaty question for you specifically though - If Dyche was pushed and the only man who could keep you up was Owen Coyle - would you take him back!

  

No Dyche won't be sacked, he won't be sacked even if we don't win a game all season.

Yesterday was a prime example of what we and Dyche are up against. Brilliant tactics from the manager, we destroyed Swansea in that second half but we were short on quality to actually win the game.

The second question is an easy one, I would put my season ticket (it's a card now actually) in the bin if we ever brought Coil back.

I reckon that for teams like ours, the game's changed forever.

At one time, it was about getting up and staying there for a few seasons to try and bank some cash.

Now that the TV money has gone up to Warp Factor Mental, it doesn't matter if you go up and come straight back down - Congratulations! You've just won £120M for being shit!

I think that with this new money, in about four or five years the Prem will have become a fully closed shop because everybody in it will be so far ahead of the rest in terms of money, it'll become impossible for anybody else to break in.

The three clubs that get relegated this season will be minted and I'd bet on at least two of them going straight back up, simply because of their new found financial clout.

The clock is ticking for the rest of us to join the party before it's too late and the Bouncers slam that door in our faces....

Sluffy wrote:A suplementaty question for you specifically though - If Dyche was pushed and the only man who could keep you up was Owen Coyle - would you take him back!

If Coyle was the only man that could save them from relegation, then football wouldn't be important. I can only assume there had been some kind of apocalypse.

It's already to late for us.

It's clear that there is no money to invest in the squad - hence such a reliance on loans - and it's looking more obviously as time goes by that our manager isn't making what he's already got perform as a team.

FFP means that even if the club was sold tomorrow, the new owners would only have limited powers to invest new money into the club - £6 million per year iirc.

That might seem a lot but remember teams that don't have to service a £165 million debt can buy £10 million players like Fulham have.  Even those that don't even have parachute payments (who don't have our sort of debt) can even buy £5 million players such as Forest have.

I'm not sure where we go from here really?

Football wise the outlook at the moment is obviously bleak.

As a business it all depends where the money as come from and whose ever it is, do they want it back?

Clearly they will never get it back from the football side of the business if they do.

Maybe they would take a hit on the club and write off their loss - but who really would want to take the club on?

Even as a debt free club we are a poor investment for anyone being a small cub situated next door to the Manchester giants, so possibly the best we could hope for would be a local fan with millions like Davies was - but are there any out there and if there were, would they even want too?

Burnley are now a 'bigger' club than us, simply from the money they will get for this season and parachute for the next few after. They now have no debt to bother about and financial muscule to 'bounce back' for the next few years - and they only have to do it once to hit the jackpot again.

I simply can't see a rosy future for us - and the most galling thing to my mind was the completely unecessary relegation Coyle led us to that season.  If we had stopped up for just one more season we would have had part of the staggeringly massive new Sky deal that came in although that in itself wouldn't have got us out of the mess it would have given us a much better chance to be competitive in this division and possibly creep out of it via the play offs - and have another hit of the Sky millions and parachute to keep us alive.

I'm afraid we are footballingly dead for now and years to come.

Sorry but that's me simply being analytical and not pessimistic.

Grim indeed!

Sluffy that's why in my opinion you need to get shut of Douglas.

Dyche has talked about not just being the manager of the football team but the custodian of the club. Last summer he made the Burnley board come out and say to the fans that we don't have any money and we should realise what the expectations should be for our club. However he (Dyche) also said that 'everyone' at the club were together and pulling in the same direction, there were no splits or backbiting going on at the club.

 

I think that is exactly what Bolton need at the minute, someone to unite the club and say it how it really is, and obviously to try something different on the field.

Copper Dragon wrote:Sluffy that's why in my opinion you need to get shut of Douglas.

Dyche has talked about not just being the manager of the football team but the custodian of the club. Last summer he made the Burnley board come out and say to the fans that we don't have any money and we should realise what the expectations should be for our club. However he (Dyche) also said that 'everyone' at the club were together and pulling in the same direction, there were no splits or backbiting going on at the club.

 

I think that is exactly what Bolton need at the minute, someone to unite the club and say it how it really is, and obviously to try something different on the field.

You may well be right but I don't think the focus of the people who own the club is actually on it.

Their priority and spending seems to be more involved with developing land.

I guess if they have financial limitations then why bother spending money on sacking a manager and his staff and bringing a new load in?

I doubt any manager can get us challenging with what he's got at his disposal now.

Yes you will lose fans but I hazzard a guess that it will cost more in changing managers.

Even if we did, who would want to come?

People are in dream land when they say they want Pulis, Lennon, Hierro, etc and wanting explayers such Brown, Phillips, Lee, is simply taking a punt because they once played football for us - not because of any managerial evidence on their part.

Whoever came in will be being booed with 3 months and our fans wanting their heads, simply because with the players we have, results won't change.

Ok, we might play prettier football but so what? I suppose if it sends the fans home happier that's something but what manager doesn't want to improve his side, rather than simply pleasing the mob?

If the club owners were serious about the football business they simply would not have run the club in such a way that they have - £165 million debt!? That didn't happen by accident.

Something is not right.

The best I can reason is that the club is just part of the business 'package' and not its centre, that 99% of the fans think it is (or should be).

There's a much wider picture here to my mind and the club is suffering because of it.

Maybe the atmosphere will again turn toxic as it did with Megson and something will happen but for now I simply can't see the owners wanting to spend money to replace Freedman.

That's how I see things anyway.

Sluffy wrote:I doubt any manager can get us challenging with what he's got at his disposal now.

Douglas still has more at his disposal than Dyche had with Burnley this time last season.

I know what happened with us last season doesn't happen very often these days, but Douglas doesn't seem to be learning or adapting his team to the problems that they face.

Copper Dragon wrote:

Sluffy wrote:I doubt any manager can get us challenging with what he's got at his disposal now.

Douglas still has more at his disposal than Dyche had with Burnley this time last season.

What a load of tosh Stan.
Dyche had the basis of a fully formed team when we played you at TM. And that included experience from the Norwich lads and talent up front.

It isn't a load of tosh Wanderlust.

We were far from a fully formed side, we had two debutants (plus one on the bench), two forwards who had a total of about two goals between them and a inexperienced centre back.

We started last season with just three recognised central midfielders, two forwards (one who hadn't hardly got a game for us previously and one with a poor injury record who'd previously scored half a dozen goals in League 1), three centre halves,  no right back cover.

A squad of twenty (which includes a young player who is now playing for Gateshead and a player from Mansfield).

Copper Dragon wrote:It isn't a load of tosh Wanderlust.

We were far from a fully formed side, we had two debutants (plus one on the bench), two forwards who had a total of about two goals between them and a inexperienced centre back.

We started last season with just three recognised central midfielders, two forwards (one who hadn't hardly got a game for us previously and one with a poor injury record who'd previously scored half a dozen goals in League 1), three centre halves,  no right back cover.

A squad of twenty (which includes a young player who is now playing for Gateshead and a player from Mansfield).

Currently we have a squad of 28 of which 3 are out on loan, 4 are promoted development players, 5 are prima donnas who think they should be playing in the prem but are really journeymen, 2 are injured long term and the rest are average at best.
None of the fit players are Premiership material - Bogdan is probably the only premiership quality player but he's injured.
I think Dyche had the better deal.

...and he didn't have the whole "£160m debt thing" hanging over his head.

Let's not forget that.

I believe it's quite relevant....

It's not relevant to what is being said at the minute though Breadman.

We weren't 4th favourites for relegation last season for nowt you know.  

So why were you?

Is Sean simply THAT good a manager?

If so, what's his secret?

I would have thought we were 4th favourites for relegation because of squad size, the perceived quality of the players, we hadn't spent a penny and didn't have money to spend.


Sean is a brilliant manager. There are no secrets, he just does the basics right and has worked to the players strengths. 4-4-2 high tempo pressing game, if you can get the ball in the oppositions box by making two passes instead of twenty then that's what happens.

We can't even make it with two passes at the moment.

Warming up before the Match.

Copper Dragon wrote:I would have thought we were 4th favourites for relegation because of squad size, the perceived quality of the players, we hadn't spent a penny and didn't have money to spend.


Sean is a brilliant manager. There are no secrets, he just does the basics right and has worked to the players strengths. 4-4-2 high tempo pressing game, if you can get the ball in the oppositions box by making two passes instead of twenty then that's what happens.

Ah yes, Cops....I see.

We used to have one of them.

Bruce Something....can't quite remember now.

We were in the Third Division at the time. No money, small squad, no real expectation.....and then it clicked.

But then he fucked off to Arsenal and left us at the mercy of some greedy chairman and his fat, bent stooge.

It worked for a bit but then they had a nasty falling-out and it all went south from there.

And here we are now.......

I truly hope that football is "cyclic" because we need a lift.

Soon.......

There you are Breadman, it can be done.

You just need to find your next Rioch, but I wouldn't leave that up to Phil Teflon Gartslime.

Oh yeah, that's encouraging.......

He's welded into the infrastructure at the Reebok Macron, so it'll take a raid by Seal Team Six or a controlled nuclear strike to remove him, so we're screwed.

Bin Laden held out for years in his compound before they got him and the difference is, we actually know where this prick is but he's still untouchable...........

He's like a Bond villain on acid.

With better henchmen and more devious weapons.........

Sean Dyche is great with the media and good with PR in general. I recall he ran a few evenings around Burnley and Tod etc when he invited fans to have their say and meet the man. He comes across as straightforward and in that respect has already cemented his reputation as a top manager. 

He inherited a Premiership set up which helped and whilst the squad was thin, the fact is he had Ings, Vokes (a ready made Juke)  Arfield, Shackell, Stanislas, Heaton and Trippier "the best right back in the league" so although he hadn't got a big squad he had quality in his starting X1.

And you only need eleven on any given week. He was lucky in staying relatively injury-free.

Dougie inherited a Premiership set up but the players were head-f***ed. They'd been relegated under Coyle on goal difference and thought they'd been robbed and should still be in the prem instead of being geared up for the fight to get back. 
There were prima donnas who held the club to ransom and political infighting. Several of them tried (and succeeded) in bleeding us dry.
When we needed unity and commitment from players we'd supported we got shafted.

Dyche was definitely in the right place at the right time. I think he's done an excellent job and has made the most of the opportunity at Burnley - many would have cocked it up - but IMO Burnley definitely was an opportunity - whereas the Bolton job was a poisoned chalice.