The 10 game review..

Pre-season I commented that in recognition of the cutbacks etc. I felt it was only sensible that we review Dougie Freedman's position 10 games into the season rather than write him off before the season starts.

Well here we are and it isn't looking as good as it might have.

It's clear that many posters on here feel that despite the cutbacks and all that goes with it, Dougie should be doing better than he has been doing although personally I only expect mid-table at best from this squad and there's plenty of time for that.

Nonetheless I'm now at a point where I think Dougie has had a fair crack at producing the silk purse but it still looks like a pig's ear to me, so a managerial change wouldn't be too upsetting.

I'm ready, you're ready, the BN appears ready - so what are the chances of getting a new manager?

Not as clearcut as might have been thought IMO as there are several barriers to be overcome:

1) Who do we want? Wanderers fans have been posting some ridiculous suggestions and as yet there seem to be no realistic contenders. On the one hand, Pep Guardiola or Mourinho are not on the point of leaving their clubs to come rushing to save Bolton. Neither is Allardyce - the traitor still hates us. And Ferguson is happily retired last seen wandering about in a bunker at Gleneagles looking for his carer. On the other hand, nobody else is an attractive proposition and disgruntled Wanderers fans complaining that "anyone is better than Freedman" will have to put a more convincing case together.
2) Who would come? I keep hearing we're an attractive proposition.   Do we really want a self-confessed masochist for a manager? Isn't that what we already have? And we've had comments from e.g. Natasha that a lower league manager would jump at the opportunity. That went well for Leeds didn't it?
3) What about the Board? Fans calling for Gartside's head will probably only increase his resolve not to fire Dougie. Plus the Board have bought into the longer term plan so are less likely to give up just yet. 

The speculative amateur psychology that abounds on this site (particularly with regard to Dougie's thinking and attitude) will continue unabated whilst results remain poor so if it's time for a change, bring it on.


My view is that the Board will hang on to Dougie for as long as they possibly can. If they are unable to do so i.e. bottle it, they won't have anyone else lined up to take the role on a permanent basis and Jimmy Phillips +1 will be given another interim shot - and then hurriedly replaced by a no-mark if they start to get some success like last time.

What do you think will happen?

And does it chime with the mad speculation that's been flying about to date?

Perhaps your most condescending post yet. Congrats.

Sadly, and this isn't me being a sheep and jumping on any bandwagon, I have to agree with Whittam on this.

If your intention was to rile people and have a bit of a sneer at the rest of us, job done.

If it was meant as an earnest appraisal of where we are as a club and was an honest attempt to provoke genuine debate, it could have been worded so much better........

That bullshit doesn't fool me. I make a genuine point that questions the existence of viable alternatives to Dougie (and lack of contingency planning) and Whittam tries to divert attention from the meat of the question by calling it condescending. He keeps slinging that particular brand of mud at me so it's clearly starting to stick, not that I'm arsed.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing if people think Dougie will be canned - which is somewhat different from wanting him to be canned.

We've heard loads and loads about wanting him to be canned so I think it's fair enough to ask if those people have taken into consideration the other factors or not and what they think will actually happen.

I've stated my position re both aspects i.e. I wouldn't mind if he went but I don't think there's a contingency plan in place or other managers under consideration.

Other posters may think the Board will sack him and worry about a replacement later. Some (like Whittam) may think there's already a queue forming already. There is f*** all condescending about asking that question, however if anyone suggests we should sign Allardyce or anyone else we can't afford or wouldn't want to come, I reserve the right to take the piss. A lot.

TBF underlining things for emphasis is a bit condescending. A bit like writing things in CAPITAL LETTERS for effect.

wanderlust wrote:Pre-season I commented that in recognition of the cutbacks etc. I felt it was only sensible that we review Dougie Freedman's position 10 games into the season rather than write him off before the season starts.

Well here we are and it isn't looking as good as it might have.

It's clear that many posters on here feel that despite the cutbacks and all that goes with it, Dougie should be doing better than he has been doing although personally I only expect mid-table at best from this squad and there's plenty of time for that.

Nonetheless I'm now at a point where I think Dougie has had a fair crack at producing the silk purse but it still looks like a pig's ear to me, so a managerial change wouldn't be too upsetting.

I'm ready, you're ready, the BN appears ready - so what are the chances of getting a new manager?

Not as clearcut as might have been thought IMO as there are several barriers to be overcome:

1) Who do we want? Wanderers fans have been posting some ridiculous suggestions and as yet there seem to be no realistic contenders. On the one hand, Pep Guardiola or Mourinho are not on the point of leaving their clubs to come rushing to save Bolton. Neither is Allardyce - the traitor still hates us. And Ferguson is happily retired last seen wandering about in a bunker at Gleneagles looking for his carer. On the other hand, nobody else is an attractive proposition and disgruntled Wanderers fans complaining that "anyone is better than Freedman" will have to put a more convincing case together.
2) Who would come? I keep hearing we're an attractive proposition.   Do we really want a self-confessed masochist for a manager? Isn't that what we already have? And we've had comments from e.g. Natasha that a lower league manager would jump at the opportunity. That went well for Leeds didn't it?
3) What about the Board? Fans calling for Gartside's head will probably only increase his resolve not to fire Dougie. Plus the Board have bought into the longer term plan so are less likely to give up just yet. 

The speculative amateur psychology that abounds on this site (particularly with regard to Dougie's thinking and attitude) will continue unabated whilst results remain poor so if it's time for a change, bring it on.


My view is that the Board will hang on to Dougie for as long as they possibly can. If they are unable to do so i.e. bottle it, they won't have anyone else lined up to take the role on a permanent basis and Jimmy Phillips +1 will be given another interim shot - and then hurriedly replaced by a no-mark if they start to get some success like last time.

What do you think will happen?

And does it chime with the mad speculation that's been flying about to date?

Perhaps some people might feel that BSA thought that Gartside was the traitor and had no ambition.  All these years later, it is my opinion, that BSA would have been proven correct. Had we bought Dawson or Juke, our position could be fighting for top six... but a lack of ambition has negated any thoughts of that.  This is in no way to say that we have been anywhere successful in the first 9 games.  In fact, we are one point ahead of the worst start in club history.  Dougie's resources are very limited, and we can all point fingers at the offenders... and probably everyone from ED to Gartside to Dougie are all responsible... as well as the players.  I think Natasha's post last week of the definition of a pass says it all.  It truly has been painful to watch the demise of the club.  Can anyone do a better job than Dougie?  Can we get anyone to come to this club?  Can we afford to sack someone with 9 months remaining on a contract?  The one given is that these players are not playing up to the level they should be playing, nor are the tactics of the manager working in any shape or form.  I only hope we win today, and get enough points to survive this season.  I can only dream of Dawson and Juke being in our line-up and the difference a couple of players can make.

I have been extremely disappointed with our results so far. I expected far better and I am now at the stage where I cannot see us in any position other than the bottom six. I would love to be proved wrong but I just cannot see how Dougie can turn things round. I have given him the benefit of the doubt but I cannot put a positive spin on any of our matches this season ( and I've been to most of them).

FWIW Malky Mackay is the bookies favourite should Dougie get the chop. He did a decent job at Cardiff until he fell foul of Dr No.

It will be interesting to see what tonight brings because I just cannot see the board continuing to ignore the fans. At some stage they will have to act. Who knows?

Doing much worse than I expected. Was hoping to be challenging for the playoffs, but we can't play football. We worry too much about stopping the opponents rather than let them worry about us. The tactics Dougie employs are baffling and has been his downfall.

I suspect a loss/draw tonight and a bad result on Saturday will lead to his dismissal. Gardening leave so we don't have a big payment to make.

After last night's result this topic is more relevant than ever as it highlights the key reason Dougie has been retained much to the amazement of many.

Performance and results-wise it's impossible to justify Freedman's continued tenure. We're playing shit, in the bottom three and four points away from safety with no realistic hope of improvement.

Off the pitch, Freedman has successfully done the first part of the job - getting rid of the high earners - he just hasn't replaced them with the quality needed to survive comfortably although that shouldn't be too much of a shock seeing as he had to scrape the barrel of the transfer market.

On balance, he should be gone - fired immediately after losing 4 nil to our nearest relegation rivals.  It could still happen over the next few days but incredibly, it hasn't happened yet for the reasons I've outlined at the top of the thread and previously.

I think the Board made a commitment to austerity and a commitment to stick with Dougie through hell and high water, but there is now an inevitability about it barring him staying on for the next game and a miracle happening. 

As mentioned, I reckon there's no contingency plan in place and no contenders other than JP's Dream Team - although the Board may be panicking now and desperately trying to throw together an attractive package.

wanderlust wrote:After last night's result this topic is more relevant than ever as it highlights the key reason Dougie has been retained much to the amazement of many.

Performance and results-wise it's impossible to justify Freedman's continued tenure. We're playing shit, in the bottom three and four points away from safety with no realistic hope of improvement.

Off the pitch, Freedman has successfully done the first part of the job - getting rid of the high earners - he just hasn't replaced them with the quality needed to survive comfortably although that shouldn't be too much of a shock seeing as he had to scrape the barrel of the transfer market.

On balance, he should be gone - fired immediately after losing 4 nil to our nearest relegation rivals.  It could still happen over the next few days but incredibly, it hasn't happened yet for the reasons I've outlined at the top of the thread and previously.

I think the Board made a commitment to austerity and a commitment to stick with Dougie through hell and high water, but there is now an inevitability about it barring him staying on for the next game and a miracle happening. 

As mentioned, I reckon there's no contingency plan in place and no contenders other than JP's Dream Team - although the Board may be panicking now and desperately trying to throw together an attractive package.

Pretty much echoes my own thoughts. The inertia displayed by the Wanderers board has to be dictated by the lack of funds available. There is no other logical explanation.

Inertia is more active than the BWFC Board RT. As I've said for months, they bought into the whole austerity package (out of necessity) and then bought into DF to deliver it (out of lack of choice?) some time ago at which point they battened down the hatches knowing that austerity would be incredibly unpopular and had no intention of re-emerging until it was all over. I reckon they wouldn't have intended to do anything until the storm had passed and Wanderers fans had become accustomed to mid-Championship anonymity.
Poor results are forcing them to rethink and I'll bet they don't like it. 
Don't reckon there's much they can do about it either apart from give JP another shot, but I guess they'll have to try summat.

It looks as if the board are going to let Dougie run his contract down rather than have to pay him off. Everything hinges on us surviving in the Championship this season. As it stands, the prospect of that happening look less likely with every match played. It is rare for managers to survive once the fans turn against them. Bolton might just buck the trend and carry on regardless.

Second from bottom with only five points after ten games nearly always results in dismissal but our next four games could be the barometer.

Bournemouth at home would normally be a probable three pointer. ( 3 )
Birmingham away....draw possibly? ( 1 )
Charlton away.... first away win??? ( 3)
Brentford home.... ( 3) 

15 points after 14 games looks more promising but is it enough and are we likely to achieve anywhere near that tally?

Reebok Trotter wrote:It looks as if the board are going to let Dougie run his contract down rather than have to pay him off. Everything hinges on us surviving in the Championship this season. As it stands, the prospect of that happening look less likely with every match played. It is rare for managers to survive once the fans turn against them. Bolton might just buck the trend and carry on regardless.

Second from bottom with only five points after ten games nearly always results in dismissal but our next four games could be the barometer.

Bournemouth at home would normally be a probable three pointer. ( 3 )
Birmingham away....draw possibly? ( 1 )
Charlton away.... first away win??? ( 3)
Brentford home.... ( 3) 

15 points after 14 games looks more promising but is it enough and are we likely to achieve anywhere near that tally?

RT - I wish I could be as optimistic about the next few games.  Out of the three teams that went up this season, we beat Rotherham, we lost to the Wolves, and Brentford has 14 points to our 5.  Charlton has a +4 GD against our -12 (pitiful on defense) and Bournemouth is also +1 in the GD department as well as 7 points ahead of us.  I honestly don't know who we can beat with the starting eleven changing every game and the defense is in shambles with Wheater out.  Oh how I wish we signed Dawson to anchor the defense and Juke to work with Mason upfront.  Nothing seems to work for Dougie and the team looks defeated at the start.  A change is necessary after two seasons of the worst starts in club history.  We need a brace of wins if not more to get back in the race to the middle... forget the top six... never going to happen.

observer wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:It looks as if the board are going to let Dougie run his contract down rather than have to pay him off. Everything hinges on us surviving in the Championship this season. As it stands, the prospect of that happening look less likely with every match played. It is rare for managers to survive once the fans turn against them. Bolton might just buck the trend and carry on regardless.

Second from bottom with only five points after ten games nearly always results in dismissal but our next four games could be the barometer.

Bournemouth at home would normally be a probable three pointer. ( 3 )
Birmingham away....draw possibly? ( 1 )
Charlton away.... first away win??? ( 3)
Brentford home.... ( 3) 

15 points after 14 games looks more promising but is it enough and are we likely to achieve anywhere near that tally?

RT - I wish I could be as optimistic about the next few games.  Out of the three teams that went up this season, we beat Rotherham, we lost to the Wolves, and Brentford has 14 points to our 5.  Charlton has a +4 GD against our -12 (pitiful on defense) and Bournemouth is also +1 in the GD department as well as 7 points ahead of us.  I honestly don't know who we can beat with the starting eleven changing every game and the defense is in shambles with Wheater out.  Oh how I wish we signed Dawson to anchor the defense and Juke to work with Mason upfront.  Nothing seems to work for Dougie and the team looks defeated at the start.  A change is necessary after two seasons of the worst starts in club history.  We need a brace of wins if not more to get back in the race to the middle... forget the top six... never going to happen.

I would imagine that Dougie is telling an eager Board that the next 4 games are winnable and 10 points from them would paint a much rosier picture - and that will be music to their ears.
It would be good and it would get us back on target for survival but I'm with RT -  just not convinced we can get half that number of points from these games.

Did you mention the playoffs Obs? Really?

The next four games my, indeed, be "winnable" but all the evidence thus far would indicate that we won't be winning any of them.

We have had 30 shots (all shots, not just the ones on target) in 10 games this season and we are sporting the worst goal difference record in the division by a clear margin.

If the Board really were considering sacking him but he has managed to convince them that he really is capable of turning things around because of the reasons cited above, they are a bunch of gullible fools.

But they're not are they because they're all successful businessmen in their own right, so you would assume that they'd be bright enough to see through any last ditched attempts by Freedman to save his job, so there must be more to it than that.

All I can assume is that they're not prepared to pay him off and Freedman has been told "Listen......it's your arse in a sling here, we're keeping our heads down and you won't be getting any public support from us, so get out there and sort it. We're not paying you off, as your deal's up at the end of the season anyway, so if you want out, you go of your own accord."

Which I think will result in even more desperate management and tactics (as seen against Fulham when he made three attacking changes at once in an attempt to try and score and it backfired spectacularly) and we may wind up getting even worse.....

But as I say, it's all pure speculation.....

Breadman wrote:All I can assume is that they're not prepared to pay him off and Freedman has been told "Listen......it's your arse in a sling here, we're keeping our heads down and you won't be getting any public support from us, so get out there and sort it. We're not paying you off, as your deal's up at the end of the season anyway, so if you want out, you go of your own accord."

Quite possible. Equally possible is that they have long since bet the ranch on him keeping us in this division with no budget and no plan B so have nowhere else to go....in which case they'll be desperately praying Dougie pulls this one out of the fire and will want to believe anything he tells them.

They'll be saying "All you have to do is pull back those 4 points and get us out of the relegation zone"

Problem is we haven't got the quality to guarantee it, even if we cut out the Matt Mills-esque comedy defending/falling over.

wanderlust wrote:

observer wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:It looks as if the board are going to let Dougie run his contract down rather than have to pay him off. Everything hinges on us surviving in the Championship this season. As it stands, the prospect of that happening look less likely with every match played. It is rare for managers to survive once the fans turn against them. Bolton might just buck the trend and carry on regardless.

Second from bottom with only five points after ten games nearly always results in dismissal but our next four games could be the barometer.

Bournemouth at home would normally be a probable three pointer. ( 3 )
Birmingham away....draw possibly? ( 1 )
Charlton away.... first away win??? ( 3)
Brentford home.... ( 3) 

15 points after 14 games looks more promising but is it enough and are we likely to achieve anywhere near that tally?

RT - I wish I could be as optimistic about the next few games.  Out of the three teams that went up this season, we beat Rotherham, we lost to the Wolves, and Brentford has 14 points to our 5.  Charlton has a +4 GD against our -12 (pitiful on defense) and Bournemouth is also +1 in the GD department as well as 7 points ahead of us.  I honestly don't know who we can beat with the starting eleven changing every game and the defense is in shambles with Wheater out.  Oh how I wish we signed Dawson to anchor the defense and Juke to work with Mason upfront.  Nothing seems to work for Dougie and the team looks defeated at the start.  A change is necessary after two seasons of the worst starts in club history.  We need a brace of wins if not more to get back in the race to the middle... forget the top six... never going to happen.

I would imagine that Dougie is telling an eager Board that the next 4 games are winnable and 10 points from them would paint a much rosier picture - and that will be music to their ears.
It would be good and it would get us back on target for survival but I'm with RT -  just not convinced we can get half that number of points from these games.

Did you mention the playoffs Obs? Really?

"forget the top six... never going to happen."  Thinking about next year in League One... hopefully we'll make the top six.  Wait, didn't we say that when we went down from the Premier League?  Well, we were only one GD away or as I would have said, a game or two more from Dawson to have achieved that!

BTW... the Fulham game was the worst I have seen us play in years.  The only thing missing was Zat Knight tripping Mills instead of him just falling down. We need a change at the top and someone to change tactics and light a fire under these guys.  They all look like they are playing for checks and not for pride.

I pretty much agree with lusty's logic and have said as much albeit not to the same depth ie we are fucked!!

Soul Kitchen wrote:I pretty much agree with lusty's logic and have said as much albeit not to the same depth ie we are fucked!!

Looking very much like they sacked him first and have started to look for a replacement after the event.

Is it just coincidence or do you think that the Board (like some of us) said at the beginning of the season "let's give Dougie 10 games and then review where we are?"

wanderlust wrote:Is it just coincidence or do you think that the Board (like some of us) said at the beginning of the season "let's give Dougie 10 games and then review where we are?"

No.

We've got steadily worse over the last few games, to the point where one of the only two teams below us in the league shoved four past us on Wednesday and made us look like a very poor pub team.

It had fuck all to do with "giving him 10 games and then reviewing things".........