Should we stop calling people "Overweight"?

Angry Dad wrote:I think fat people should make a beeping noise when they move backwards.

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Meditation brings happiness and meaning into life, solves the problems of daily life, and ultimately brings lasting peace and contentment.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
You can do something about being fat.

This will obviously be akin to me telling you that there is such thing as mental illness, but that isn't always the case, and if it was, it doesn't make it any less offensive. People shouldn't have to conform to avoid abuse.

doffcocker wrote:People shouldn't have to conform to avoid abuse.

Don't be silly.

Excellent post from doffocker. There are a number of posts in this thread and elsewhere on the forum making snide comments about fat people.

It's a reflection of society as a whole. People think it's absolutely fine to insult and laugh at fat people, but that it's outrageous to insult the colour of somebody's skin, belief system and so on.

Look at the thread the other day about the young girl who is reputedly 63 stone. Someone actually created this thread (I forget who) with the subject 'A case for euthanasia?' and not a single person, user or moderator, batted an eyelid. Then the snide remarks kicked in.

If someone had posted a pictured of a black person, a disabled person or a Jew with that subject, it would get taken down.

Don't try to justify it by saying "they weren't born that way" or "it's not illegal", the fact is that insulting people because of the way they look is really pathetic. That poor girl has obviously got a serious problem beyond over-eating and I imagine she can't walk down the street without being mocked, abused and laughed at by people who consider themselves decent human beings.

Which is why I said earlier that I've never heard of a fat person complaining about the terms "overweight" or "obese" used in a clinical context. It's infinitely more pleasant than some of the nasty labels they are given by individuals in day to day life.

Just to clarify my position on fat people. I have no problem whatsoever with fat people. I understand some people like to be fat and that is 100% fine with me - people should be allowed to be who they like. And while I mock on here, I would never really mock a fat person, quite the opposite in fact.

However, my sister works in the NHS and reckons about 25% of the cases she sees have some link to being extremely overweight. Let's face it, no one is born fat and the vast majority of fat people get that way because they eat too much and don't exercise properly. So why should the taxpayer foot the bill? It's exactly the same as smokers, I don't think smoking related diseases should be treated on the NHS.

I'm sick of these fatties eating themselves into obesity and then expecting the NHS to help them out. Listen up fatty, do what I do - get down the gym 6 days a week and work that fat off.

I'm fat. I love being fat. No one has ever dared call me fat to my face and there's no doubting the ladies love a bit of meat on the bone.

largehat wrote:Excellent post from doffocker. There are a number of posts in this thread and elsewhere on the forum making snide comments about fat people.

It's a reflection of society as a whole. People think it's absolutely fine to insult and laugh at fat people, but that it's outrageous to insult the colour of somebody's skin, belief system and so on.

Look at the thread the other day about the young girl who is reputedly 63 stone. Someone actually created this thread (I forget who) with the subject 'A case for euthanasia?' and not a single person, user or moderator, batted an eyelid. Then the snide remarks kicked in.

If someone had posted a pictured of a black person, a disabled person or a Jew with that subject, it would get taken down.

Don't try to justify it by saying "they weren't born that way" or "it's not illegal", the fact is that insulting people because of the way they look is really pathetic. That poor girl has obviously got a serious problem beyond over-eating and I imagine she can't walk down the street without being mocked, abused and laughed at by people who consider themselves decent human beings.

Which is why I said earlier that I've never heard of a fat person complaining about the terms "overweight" or "obese" used in a clinical context. It's infinitely more pleasant than some of the nasty labels they are given by individuals in day to day life.

Largehat sometimes you miss the point.

There is a massive difference between insulting someone because of something they can realistically do nothing about (hair colour, ethnicity, where they were born, etc) and something unhealthy or socially unacceptable they can take steps to change (obesity, smoking, drinking, etc). As Natasha mentioned seriously overweight people cause a disproportionate amount of expenditure by the NHS on things that could be avoided if they lost weight. They need to take responsibility for their own situation.

I don't think Natasha ever suggested it was complaints by fat people that might lead to terms such as obese being banned. It was the humourless idiots who believe nobody should ever be offended who were proposing this action. The same idiots that tried to stop people using terms like accident blackspot, Christmas, brain storming and insisted every culture should be equally respected no matter what they preached (female circumcision, mudering blasphemers, etc).

I posted the picture originally in order to provoke debate. I make no apology if my use of the term euthanasia offended anyone - if it did, tough get over it.

They'd eat two taties more than a pig.

I'm not missing the point, I simply disagree with it.

You're making the distinction between abusing and insulting people for different reasons. There shouldn't be a distinction, you shouldn't think it is acceptable to insult people because of the way they look.

Natasha has thrown the NHS thing into the discussion. I don't think the NHS spending has got anything to do with it. Do you think if a fat person is walking down the street, someone shouting "you fat bastard" at them across the road is doing so because of the idea that they are taking up a disproportionate amount of NHS funds. They're doing it because they think it is big and clever and funny to abuse someone who is fat.

Xmiles wrote:
I don't think Natasha ever suggested it was complaints by fat people that might lead to terms such as obese being banned.

Oh but she did.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Rather than these fatties kicking up a fuss at being labelled fat, why don't they try and lose the blubber?

And here we come to the point of your post.

Xmiles wrote:
I posted the picture originally in order to provoke debate. I make no apology if my use of the term euthanasia offended anyone - if it did, tough get over it.

I was pointing out that someone (I wasn't sure who) posted a picture of a fat person as a case for euthanasia and that this would not occur with a picture of a black person, a jew, a disabled person and so on.

Your point about fat people having a choice about it so they are fair game for abuse doesn't really stack up in relation to discrimination laws against people on religious grounds does it? Religion is a choice. Some people believe sexuality is a choice. Some fat people are genetically fat. Some fat people try all their lives to lose weight but fail. You're not in a position to point to people in society who are fair game for abuse.

I hope if anyone ever says anything that seriously offends you or a member of your family, and responds with "if I offended you, I make no apology, tough get over it", you realise how pathetic that sounds. It was a nasty thing to post and it does you no cfedit to be so cocky about it.

Many people cannot help being fat, and for this you should blame the food industry who include all sorts of chemicals, sugars, fats, fillers, etc., We shouldn't bank on a remedial approach where people need to spend lots of time and money making up for cheap, low quality food.This is why a lot of the current generation are getting bigger. It used to be a misconception years ago that fat people were happy people, although I don't know why. As for the case of the young girl who had to be winched out of her house, had the NHS and associated agencies been doing their job properly, her condition would have been picked up much earlier, which would have helped her not to get in the situation she is in, and saved the large amount of money now needed to rectify the situation. Finally, not calling people fat could well be construed as insulting, because those of us who are overweight are well aware of it, and to be given a substitute description is adding insult to injury.

Most fat peoples problems are self-inflicted. If you eat sensibly and exercise then you will not get fat. I don't subscribe to the bullshit about it being in their glands. That's total horseshit. You never saw a fat person in Belsen.

If people enjoy being fat then that is down to their individual choice but the issue of obesity, especially in children, does need to be addressed. America has a massive problem with obesity and things are going the same way over here.

Whichever way you dress it up, obesity is a drain on NHS resources.

Julius Caesar once said, ' Surround me with fat people, for they lack ambition.'

Largehat seems to take umbrage at the fact that some posters are taking the piss out of fat people. Big deal. This is a footy forum not the fcuking Lancet.

All I am saying about the comments you and other make about fat people on this forum is that there are two topics on this forum about them, and on both of them you have chipped in with snide remarks about them. That's a fact.

I very much doubt you would chip in with snide remarks about ethnic minorities on a thread about black people or racism, or snide remarks about people with disabilities on a disabilities thread, etc.

Look, you can justify it all you want, you don't have to justify it to anyone, but the fact that is, you and others on here think it's fine to abuse fat people and I consider that a sad indictment of society in general. In your case though, you've already stated on here that you don't like fat people. What happens if I go on the 'dislikes' thread and type 'I don't like niggers'? Everyone would be up in arms.

So abuse one group of people for being overweight = fine.
Abuse another group of people for being black = outrageous.

Interesting standards we have. I don't see what this being a football forum has to do with it, it could be a cookery forum or a train spotting forum and presumably you'd still think abusing fat people was fair game.

largehat wrote:All I am saying about the comments you and other make about fat people on this forum is that there are two topics on this forum about them, and on both of them you have chipped in with snide remarks about them. That's a fact.

I very much doubt you would chip in with snide remarks about ethnic minorities on a thread about black people or racism, or snide remarks about people with disabilities on a disabilities thread, etc.

Look, you can justify it all you want, you don't have to justify it to anyone, but the fact that is, you and others on here think it's fine to abuse fat people and I consider that a sad indictment of society in general. In your case though, you've already stated on here that you don't like fat people. What happens if I go on the 'dislikes' thread and type 'I don't like niggers'? Everyone would be up in arms.

So abuse one group of people for being overweight = fine.
Abuse another group of people for being black = outrageous.

Interesting standards we have. I don't see what this being a football forum has to do with it, it could be a cookery forum or a train spotting forum and presumably you'd still think abusing fat people was fair game.

You often make jokes about me having a cock. Are women with cocks fair game for you, but not fat people?

Natasha Whittam wrote:
You often make jokes about me having a cock. Are women with cocks fair game for you, but not fat people?

I don't believe you're a woman with a cock.
I believe you're a man with a cock.

Men having a cock is the norm.

largehat wrote:

I don't believe you're a woman with a cock.
I believe you're a man with a cock.

That's not true, but let's pretend it is. You're still making fun of ladyboys. It's clear you have double standards.

Equal rights for ladyboys! Are you with me Quent?

Hang on, you're getting carried away here. Look at my last reply to RT - "interesting standards we have". I don't claim to be perfect or never take the piss out of people. I'm simply pointing out a situation we have in society where taking the piss out of fat people has become fine, but taking the piss out of people on a lot of other grounds is pretty taboo.

largehat wrote:Hang on, you're getting carried away here. Look at my last reply to RT - "interesting standards we have". I don't claim to be perfect or never take the piss out of people. I'm simply pointing out a situation we have in society where taking the piss out of fat people has become fine, but taking the piss out of people on a lot of other grounds is pretty taboo.

And I take your point, but you're trying to make out that abusing fat people is the same as abusing black people or gingers. It's not.

All abuse is wrong, but fat people sort of bring it on themselves because they make themselves that way. If they really had the willpower they could be thin.

If a guy in a Man Utd shirt sat in the North Stand on matchday he'd get his head kicked in. He has a right to wear and sit where he likes, but he's bringing the abuse on himself.

Nobody "brings abuse upon themselves" by virtue of being fat. That's just how we as a society justify it. You threw the NHS thing into it earlier just as I called people out for abusing fat people but it's a smokescreen.

RT says that most fat people have inflicted being fat upon themselves, and he is probably right too. Again, show me where that's a free pass to abuse someone.

You will go to court in this country if you are caught abusing someone for being a Catholic or a Mormon or a Jew, but people have a choice not to be a member of a religion, so why don't we consider those people fair game in the same way? It's not because of the law entirely, it's because of respect for other people too.

Anyway, like you say Nat, all abuse is wrong. Kicking someone in for wearing a Man Utd shirt is wrong, whether he was naive or stupid to wear his shirt in the North Stand of the Reebok is another point.

I think largehat has this absolutely spot on.

For the people with this "if they don't like it, they can do something about it" idea, I'll say that somebody in my immediate family didn't like it, she did something about it, and almost killed herself in the process. This is something that goes on everyday up and down the country because people cannot keep up with society's expectations on weight control, and make no mistake about it, it's dangerous! People try living a healthy lifestyle, and when it doesn't have the desired results, they would rather starve themselves and/or stick their fingers down their throats every passing hour than be a "fatty".

It's also wrong to assume that it's all as simple as having a balanced diet and doing a bit of exercise. In an ideal world, it would be that simple, but in reality, it doesn't work that way for everyone, and it's not as simple in practice as some make out in any case, particularly for people with mental illness (that other fictional problem) for whom getting out of bed of a morning is a struggle, let alone daily calorie counting and exercise.

I could be sensitive about this because I've been brought up to think mocking somebody because of their weight is absolutely unacceptable, but it's also because I've been witness to the evil effects of weight obsession brought about by insensitive shits.

I didn't want to get into this ' fattist ' debate because some posters seem to see them as ' victims', no different than alcoholics, drug addicts and chain smokers which they most probably are.

I am not a moral arbiter on this site, nor is LH. Personally, I couldn't give a flying fcuk what other posters think. The internet is one of the few places left where people can express their humour with a modicum of ' freedom of choice '.

LH and Doffcocker are intelligent posters. Sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I don't. Natasha is very controversial. Sometimes I agree with her comments and sometimes I don't.

Humour is in the eye of the beholder and what I may find funny, others may not. That's the way of the world and I'm fucked if I am going to change my opinion after half a decade.

I happen to think that most obese people have chosen their way of lifestyle as a cop out. Perhaps they suffer from low self esteem. I wouldn't know and it's none of my business whether or not.

If I find something funny then I will have a laugh. If it pisses people off then please block my comments and make a donation to ' Save the whales ' to ease your conscience.

Weight increase can ONLY be achieved by an increase in calorific content. A healthy diet of fruit and vegetables will not make you obese and anyone who says otherwise should not be taken seriously.