Donald Trump for President of the USA

The US withdrawal from Iraq helped provide the environment for ISIS to grow into, but it would be entirely false to suggest it as the sole reason. 

The withdrawal plan was initially put forward by Bush in 2007 - so the wheels were already in motion before Obama came in. And you have to remember that US public support for occupying Afghanistan and Iraq was at an all time low as the US were suffering their worst casualties and for what gain? They provided a real cushion for the warring factions as they were enemy number one.

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I didn't say the Arabs should be 'controlled' by anyone. 
America was the cushion between many of the factions, and with Obama's withdrawal and indecision, they started knocking lumps out of each other, very quickly degenerating to war. some people would look on the intervention by the West as a calming factor, but as we all know, no follow up, and a lack of foresight contributed greatly to the mess over there now. The withdrawal of the US has made it much worse, and it'll take generations until it is back to any form of normality. Running away won't help anyone.

So the attack on Iraq by Bush in 2003 was a "calming factor"?

No, of course not, but it was seen at the time, I believe, as a way of heading off even more dire problems. However, it was short sighted, and had no follow-up plan, and it all went to rat shit. (It didn't help that the Americans insisted that only their companies could bid for the rebuilding of the infrastructure, which introduced even more delays).

bwfc1874 wrote:The US withdrawal from Iraq helped provide the environment for ISIS to grow into, but it would be entirely false to suggest it as the sole reason. 

The withdrawal plan was initially put forward by Bush in 2007 - so the wheels were already in motion before Obama came in. And you have to remember that US public support for occupying Afghanistan and Iraq was at an all time low as the US were suffering their worst casualties and for what gain? They provided a real cushion for the warring factions as they were enemy number one.

Agree completely. However, taking on the role as the World's policeman, and then ducking out of your responsibilities, to leave thousands to die, is not the way to do it. Its taken America a long time to learn that wars aren't played like computer games, and that casualties are real. When you're the most powerful nation on the planet, you cannot just walk away once you have committed. This is what I believe Obama has done.

Maybe true with hindsight, but the point is where would we be now with President Trump in the hot seat? What will the big decisions be over the next 4 years? If he plans on being as aggressive as he's making out war with Russia in Syria suddenly becomes realistic. 

I just don't see how any sensible person could vote for somebody who has next to no serious policies and has been proven to be totally detached from reality on multiple occasions.

The bit that's troubling me a bit in all this (apart from the obvious possibility of Trump pulling it off) is the number of Democratic Party supporters who appear to be genuinely agonising over whether or not they should turn out and vote for Clinton because of their mistrust of her.

If I was a Democrat voter in the States, I'd vote for a bag of fetid vomit if it was the only alternative to a dangerous idiot like Trump.

Hillbillies voting for Trump aren't the problem in all this, it's the Democrats who won't vote for Clinton that are the problem.

I genuinely believe Trump didn't expect to win the nomination, which will account for all his bluff and bluster in the early part of his campaign. It was a bit like a rich man's toy to him, (I believe somebody else also thought this earlier on, on this thread). However, as time has moved on, he's realised that a lot of what he's said he is now expected to deliver on, and you will have noticed that he's toned down most of his rhetoric. I believe he will be managed well to start with, (while he's in learn mode), and he will concentrate on internal matters mainly, such as 'draining the swamp', and reversing many of Obama's policies. I feel there's more room for change with Trump than there is with Clinton, especially as she had been endorsed by such luminaries as the current president, his wife, Jay Z, Beyonce, and the flawless Bill Clinton 

Bread2.0 wrote:The bit that's troubling me a bit in all this (apart from the obvious possibility of Trump pulling it off) is the number of Democratic Party supporters who appear to be genuinely agonising over whether or not they should turn out and vote for Clinton because of their mistrust of her.

If I was a Democrat voter in the States, I'd vote for a bag of fetid vomit if it was the only alternative to a dangerous idiot like Trump.

Hillbillies voting for Trump aren't the problem in all this, it's the Democrats who won't vote for Clinton that are the problem.

So what does that tell you ?

Scary.

gloswhite wrote:I feel there's more room for change with Trump than there is with Clinton, especially as she had been endorsed by such luminaries as the current president, his wife, Jay Z, Beyonce, and the flawless Bill Clinton 

Whereas Trump's been endorsed by Sarah Palin, Tila Tequila and Mike Tyson, half of his own party don't even back him.

What you've written below seems to suggest you're hoping most of what he's said isn't going to be put into action and that he'll be controlled by other (presumably more sensible) politicians anyway? Which begs the question what you'd actually be voting for then? – Luckily not an issue any of us need to think of!

gloswhite wrote:

Bread2.0 wrote:The bit that's troubling me a bit in all this (apart from the obvious possibility of Trump pulling it off) is the number of Democratic Party supporters who appear to be genuinely agonising over whether or not they should turn out and vote for Clinton because of their mistrust of her.

If I was a Democrat voter in the States, I'd vote for a bag of fetid vomit if it was the only alternative to a dangerous idiot like Trump.

Hillbillies voting for Trump aren't the problem in all this, it's the Democrats who won't vote for Clinton that are the problem.

So what does that tell you ?

It tells me that there are far too many people in the States who need to accept the fact that she is by far the lesser of two evils and if they don't want a borderline psychopath like Trump in the White House, they need to stop dithering about and go and vote for her.

If he wins,what are the odds he's shot?

I think there's more chance that if Clinton wins, one of his crazy bastard followers will take a pot shot at her.

Because, lest we forget, he's already given his tacit approval during one of his campaign speeches.

When it boils down to it, I would like to think that Trump will grow into the job, (nobody is a born president, other than Nat), and I feel that Clinton is already a dyed in the wool politician, who, no matter what is promised, will continue in the vein she has followed for 40 years.
Have to be honest, I'm getting tired of it all, but at least we have finally got past the 'he said, she said' phase, and I'll be interested to see how it all pans out.

Feelings are running so high on both sides, that it wouldn't surprise me to see quite a lot of unrest.

Trump could always hide behind a baby,like the Christopher Walken movie.

i think a lot depends what role/attitude |Trump takes if he is defeated

Does the possibility of him becoming president not scare you a bit, Glos?

Because it scares the shit out of me.

He's a dangerous narcissist who is well known for reacting like a spoilt child and lashing out without thinking.

Do we really want someone like that in charge of the most powerful and well equipped army on the planet?

I've followed Trumps work for a good few years off the back of the Apprentice USA (great show) he's a tool, his behaviour, attitudes and principles are all absolutely moronic. But I never thought he'd get far enough for it to stop being funny and become dangerous. 

Safe to say he's reached that point now, just hope he doesn't get any further.

It does scare me a bit. However, we all know what he's like, and I'm hoping that the checks and balances I mentioned earlier will head off a lot of that.

This might surprise you, but its not that I want Trump to win. I want Clinton to lose. Its a very subtle difference I know, but I don't advocate the vast majority of Trumps views.

De Niro was spot on.