Donald Trump for President of the USA

Aye, if only Bonce.

T.R.O.Y wrote:You went to great lengths to explain why Trump was the better choice than Clinton on this thread, as well as suggesting he'd be good for the UK, that's all I meant.

I agree with every word of your analysis above though.

Yes, I did, and at the time, that was what I believed. 
The problem with Trump is that he doesn't seem to realise the influence the office has, and to be honest, the way he goes about is both naive and childish, (but feel there has to be more to him, hasn't there)? I heard on the radio that he's accomplishing a lot of changes, behind the scenes, in the States, many of which have been needed for years.
Regards being good for the UK, now that he's been told off by the PM, anything could happen.

I'd be interested to know what he has achieved, as there's been little coverage of positive actions his office has taken – we (and the media)spend too much time focussing on his immature twitter rants! 

The most infuriating for me is his climate change denial, actions like approving drilling in the arctic will cause irreversible damage it's incredibly depressing.

Do you see now why i was asking for sources of claims like Clinton pardons known drug dealers and is illegally funded? The revelations regarding Russian funded propaganda show how important it is to questions sources.

T.R.O.Y wrote:I'd be interested to know what he has achieved, as there's been little coverage of positive actions his office has taken – we (and the media)spend too much time focussing on his immature twitter rants! 

The most infuriating for me is his climate change denial, actions like approving drilling in the arctic will cause irreversible damage it's incredibly depressing.

Do you see now why i was asking for sources of claims like Clinton pardons known drug dealers and is illegally funded? The revelations regarding Russian funded propaganda show how important it is to questions sources.

I believe, but can't be bothered to check it out, if I'm honest, are his moves to change the taxation system, thus reducing tax for the corporations (?). His thinking would seem to be (obviously a business man), that lower taxes will make more money available. An argument currently bouncing back and fore between our own politicians.

i think we are all aware that he's mainly wind and piss, threatening, and then tweeting, and then pulling back, or going quiet. The problem is that one day he'll actually do something he said he will. (I heard a report that he was quietly getting on with building his wall, and that many of the components had been ear-marked and bought.

Can't wait to see the wall.

Hmmm his tax plan (put simply) cuts massive amounts from Medicare and Medicaid budgets (around $5 trillion) to fund a tax break for the very richest. 

Not much of a success to be honest, the US already has very low tax rates compared to the rest of the developed world. Although I'm sure that's the direction a Tory government will be taking us if they manage to swindle a hard Brexit.

There's also a pretty tasty tax break in there for private jet owners! Nice to hear, those poor bastards normally have it so tough.

A cynic would say that he'll have all the necessary tax breaks, etc, in place for when he finishes his presidency, and takes over the running of his companies again 

Trump now confirming his status as a threat to world peace with his stance on Jerusalem. The man is a sack of shit.

T.R.O.Y wrote:Trump now confirming his status as a threat to world peace with his stance on Jerusalem. The man is a sack of shit.

Maybe he is but to be fair to him he is stating the obvious which the rest of the world pretend isn't the case.

Israel's governance, legislature and judicial authorities are all located in Jerusalem and in most country's that's where their capital is too.

It's just been a case of 'the emperor's new clothes' up to now from the rest of the world pretending Tel Aviv was still the capital but everyone knows it's Jerusalem in reality.

No doubt it will cause all sorts of problems - all religious based - but for what it is worth Jerusalem is the capital of Israel in all but name and has been for years.

Do you have any understanding of why Jerusalem isn't recognised as the Israeli capital or (more importantly) how it became part of the Israeli state?

T.R.O.Y wrote:Do you have any understanding of why Jerusalem isn't recognised as the Israeli capital or (more importantly) how it became part of the Israeli state?

I don't so please enlighten me.

T.R.O.Y wrote:Do you have any understanding of why Jerusalem isn't recognised as the Israeli capital or (more importantly) how it became part of the Israeli state?

Yes and yes.

Doesn't change the fact though that Israel has governed itself from Jerusalem from 1949 onwards and that it built its permanent 'Parliament' there in 1966 - over 50 years ago!

Once again the recent problems regarding Israel and its neighbours date back to France and ourselves (The Balfour Declaration) using our colonial powers to divide up the middle east, ignoring the wishes of those that lived there!

Anyway, we are where we are and whether anybody likes it or not Israel is governed and run from its administrative centre - Jerusalem - even though up to Trump today, everybody else pretended it did not.

Now has Trump done a wise thing - probably not.

Should Balfour/ the British Government / the League of Nations - given Israel Palestine's land to live on without their say so - definitely not.

But we did and so did Trump!

Never the less even if it turns out to be the worst thing he does - he has only stated a truism - Jerusalem is the administrative, legislative and judicial centre of the country and has been for decades and is its capital in all but international recognition of it.

I’ll take that as a no then Sluffy.

Towards the end of the 6 day war Israel were repeatedly warned off Jerusalem, even by their chief ally the US. None of the western powers or the Soviets wanted a war in the Middle East as they knew  it they’d be dragged in to support their respective allies.

For the obvious, religious reasons though Israel wanted to take Arab controlled Jerusalem (Jordanian troops had occupied the city since Israel’s last land grab of Palestinian land). 

And even though they had already crushed Egypt in the Sinai and Jordan in the Golan Heights they did. And have been condemned by their own allies and the US for years since. They bulldozed Arab quarters of the city within days and 1000’s of Palestinians fled the city and have never been allowed to return since. 

A key basis of any peace agreement is the fact the international community do not recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and the Palestinians claim to it remains valid, and can one day return.

Trump has crushed years of diplomacy because he’s not interested in history, only placating the right wing of his supporters.

Jeremy Bowen The Six Day War if you’re interested in learning the facts, an excellent account of the war and it’s affects on the region.

Ain't religion wonderful? It just keeps on giving!

T.R.O.Y wrote:I’ll take that as a no then Sluffy.

Towards the end of the 6 day war Israel were repeatedly warned off Jerusalem, even by their chief ally the US. None of the western powers or the Soviets wanted a war in the Middle East as they knew  it they’d be dragged in to support their respective allies.

For the obvious, religious reasons though Israel wanted to take Arab controlled Jerusalem (Jordanian troops had occupied the city since Israel’s last land grab of Palestinian land). 

And even though they had already crushed Egypt in the Sinai and Jordan in the Golan Heights they did. And have been condemned by their own allies and the US for years since. They bulldozed Arab quarters of the city within days and 1000’s of Palestinians fled the city and have never been allowed to return since. 

A key basis of any peace agreement is the fact the international community do not recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and the Palestinians claim to it remains valid, and can one day return.

Trump has crushed years of diplomacy because he’s not interested in history, only placating the right wing of his supporters.

You can take it how you like mate but you'll find if you knew your history that Israel's settling in Jerusalem in the modern era began following its liberation from the Ottoman Empire in 1917 (Lawrence of Arabia and all that) and by 1948 the population of 165,000 consisted of two thirds Jews and one third Arabs.

Following the Arab / Israeli War of 1948 a more formalised division of Jerusalem was established with Israel having the majority of the city.

It was also in 1948 the Israel declared Jerusalem its capital - and as from that time established its administrative, legislative and judicial centres there.

I remember watching the 6 day war on the news when it was happening - but that was nearly TWENTY YEARS AFTER Jerusalem had become Israel's capital and home of its 'Parliament' and highest Law Court!

Jordanian troops have never been in control of Jerusalem - you are misinformed about that.  Since 1917 to 1948 it was basically a British protectorate - my father actually served there following from WWII until his demob came through - and when we left the ensuing war saw Israel taking control of the city apart from East Jerusalem.

Even taking into account the events of 1967, Jerusalem has been occupied now for over well over 50 years.

Of course a great many wrongs have happened since 1917 and many people have (and do) suffer because of it but the reality on the ground is that Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel in all but recognition from the wider world.

If this was to have happen in any other country in the world, then international recognition would have been given decades ago.

I'm not saying it is a good thing that Trump has done but it certainly has been a massive elephant in the room that for decades that no one has wanted to mention until today.

1948 - 1967 Jordanian troops controlled the West Bank including East Jerusalem, history is factual not something you can twist like you normally do on here. Look it up.

Israel may have declared Jerusalem it’s capital but thats beside the point it’s meaningless, Palestine claim East Jerusalem as theirs too. Not recognising that (as Trump has done) ends any miniscule chance of a two state solution and with it peace.

You have no argument, you’re trying to score points by saying it’s a ‘truism’. We are all well aware of that, but it is the political symbolism of the city and yet another insult to the Palestinian people which threatens peace and has caused such outrage.