General Election - 8th June.

Simon,is toast.

Wanderlust, I despise all politicians including the Tory ones.

Simon will get re-elected because he is no better or worse than the majority of MPs of all colours who rip off the tax payer by heavily inflated accommodation costs and who also employ their families as staff members of their constituency offices.

The irony is that he'll be re-elected because this election isn't about people, policies or performance. It's about the rich telling the poor that if they vote for them it will be a blow against the establishment (and don't let those middle class smartarses tell you otherwise!)

rammywhite wrote:Simon will get re-elected because he is no better or worse than the majority of MPs of all colours who rip off the tax payer by heavily inflated accommodation costs and who also employ their families as staff members of their constituency offices.

Correct.

Pay politicians the average national wage. Bar them from having second homes. Bar them from employing friends/family. Bar them from second jobs or lobbying for commercial businesses.

All of a sudden you have politicians who are in it for the right reasons and not for personal gain.

wanderlust wrote:The irony is that he'll be re-elected because this election isn't about people, policies or performance. It's about the rich telling the poor that if they vote for them it will be a blow against the establishment (and don't let those middle class smartarses tell you otherwise!)

What's this with the 'rich' and the 'poor'. Its time we got away from all this dubious class warfare that left wing politicians rant on about. Who's to decide who's 'rich' and who's 'poor'? And don't quote me stuff about median wages ,or free school meals because I know all that.
They're just emotive expressions designed to continue the sort of class warfare that was the subject of politics decades ago, in the 1930s,  that pinprick socialists love to go on about. It reminds me of the pig ignorant student politics that I took part in decades ago based on idealism bereft of reality.
The ragged trousered philanthropist is ragged trousered no more.
He (or she)e lives in a neat semi, drives a mondeo, goes to Spain for his  (or her ) holidays  and all his (or her) kids have mobile phones better than the one I have.
 Sorry to say it, but this myth about the 'rich ' and thr 'poor' at war with each other is too defunct an idea to  mirror the realism of the times we live in in. To say,as someone on here has said that Teresa May 'is at war with' the working class simply beggars belief that anyone can believe it. Similarly that  Jeremy Corbyn 'detests' the rich is equally nonsensical. Its infantile name calling bereft of any substance.
The 'middle classes' ( whatever they are) dominate the country that we live in.
I wonder how I'm categorised- am I 'rich' or 'poor'
Come on now- someone preach me a sermon. Reclaim the moral high ground!!

Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

xmiles wrote:Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

The evidence is not there at all. It's a blinkered view that seems to pass from generation to generation that the Tories are totally biased one way and that Labour  are totally biased in the opposite direction.. To say that the Tories are only  interested in looking after a 'tiny' minority who can be labelled rich I think is utterly naïve.
Its part of the binary divisive thinking that bedevils politics.

I would think that nowadays, its more a case of surviving these troubled times, regardless of political party. We can only work with what we have, and its going to get less before it gets more.

gloswhite wrote:We can only work with what we have, and its going to get less before it gets more.

Keep your willy out of this.

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

The evidence is not there at all. It's a blinkered view that seems to pass from generation to generation that the Tories are totally biased one way and that Labour  are totally biased in the opposite direction.. To say that the Tories are only  interested in looking after a 'tiny' minority who can be labelled rich I think is utterly naïve.
Its part of the binary divisive thinking that bedevils politics.

Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Do you really think the impact of these policies is shared equally across society?

Why do you think the Tory party is funded almost exclusively by the very wealthy?

xmiles wrote:
Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Most of which also happened during the last Labour government. As did going to war and letting the bankers bring the country to its knees.

But hey, let's give Labour a chance to do it all again.

xmiles wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

The evidence is not there at all. It's a blinkered view that seems to pass from generation to generation that the Tories are totally biased one way and that Labour  are totally biased in the opposite direction.. To say that the Tories are only  interested in looking after a 'tiny' minority who can be labelled rich I think is utterly naïve.
Its part of the binary divisive thinking that bedevils politics.

Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Do you really think the impact of these policies is shared equally across society?

Why do you think the Tory party is funded almost exclusively by the very wealthy?

 Tax cuts for all earners by reducing the basic rate of tax and increasing  personal allowances.  Google the Laffer curve and that will explain why reducing the tax rates actually increases the tax take.  Basic economics.

 Cuts to corporation tax allowing higher profits for reinvestment in an attempt to drive up labour productivity where we have one of the lowest productivity figures in Europe - with employment now at its highest for decades.

All plans too reduce tax payments sold commercially must now be approved by the Treasury(that's the law!!)

Budgets for the NHS, schools and social  care have been increased in real terms since the financial crisis of 2008- and that's also a fact.

Cuts to benefits-I'll give you that.  But how does that benefit a 'tiny' minority  of rich people?

Pay freeze for public sector workers- that goes for everyone in the public sector (including me!) many of whom are paid unbelievable amounts of money. Look what the high earners employed by Bolton Council earn. That's apart form MPs of course who got inflation bustin wage rises -voted for by both the major parties

And the Tories are not funded by the 'very wealthy'. There are many people of moderate means who are members, just as there are very wealthy people funding the Labour party

You talk about  right wing media , but by the same token there is a left wing media obscuring the facts, being selective about what they wish you to believe.


Its blinkered thinking again- invent a straw man to kick lumps out of him.
Choose what you want to believe but don't let facts get in the way

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:
Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Most of which also happened during the last Labour government. As did going to war and letting the bankers bring the country to its knees.

But hey, let's give Labour a chance to do it all again.

True a lot of this did happen under Blair and Brown but not all of it. Historically Labour does fund the NHS, education and social care at better levels than the Tories.

One of the main reasons May did a complete u-turn and went for an early election (apart from Corbyn) is that the funding crisis in these three areas is only going to get worse over the next few years and some people might actually start to wonder whether voting Tory is such a good idea after all.

rammywhite wrote:
Tax cuts for all earners by reducing the basic rate of tax and increasing  personal allowances.  Google the Laffer curve and that will explain why reducing the tax rates actually increases the tax take.  Basic economics.

 Cuts to corporation tax allowing higher profits for reinvestment in an attempt to drive up labour productivity where we have one of the lowest productivity figures in Europe - with employment now at its highest for decades.

All plans too reduce tax payments sold commercially must now be approved by the Treasury(that's the law!!)

Budgets for the NHS, schools and social  care have been increased in real terms since the financial crisis of 2008- and that's also a fact.

Cuts to benefits-I'll give you that.  But how does that benefit a 'tiny' minority  of rich people?

Pay freeze for public sector workers- that goes for everyone in the public sector (including me!) many of whom are paid unbelievable amounts of money. Look what the high earners employed by Bolton Council earn. That's apart form MP of course who got inflation bustin wage rises -voted for by both the major parties

And the Tories are not funded by the 'very wealthy'. There are many people of moderate means who are members, just as there are very wealthy people funding the Labour party

You talk about  right wing media , but by the same token there is a left wing media obscuring the facts, being selective about what they wish you to believe.


Its blinkered thinking again- invent a straw man to kick lumps out of him.
Choose what you want to believe but don't let facts get in the way

Top post. Expect a pair of my knickers in the post as a reward.

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

The evidence is not there at all. It's a blinkered view that seems to pass from generation to generation that the Tories are totally biased one way and that Labour  are totally biased in the opposite direction.. To say that the Tories are only  interested in looking after a 'tiny' minority who can be labelled rich I think is utterly naïve.
Its part of the binary divisive thinking that bedevils politics.

Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Do you really think the impact of these policies is shared equally across society?

Why do you think the Tory party is funded almost exclusively by the very wealthy?

 Tax cuts for all earners by reducing the basic rate of tax and increasing  personal allowances.  Google the Laffer curve and that will explain why reducing the tax rates actually increases the tax take.  Basic economics.

 Cuts to corporation tax allowing higher profits for reinvestment in an attempt to drive up labour productivity where we have one of the lowest productivity figures in Europe - with employment now at its highest for decades.

All plans too reduce tax payments sold commercially must now be approved by the Treasury(that's the law!!)

Budgets for the NHS, schools and social  care have been increased in real terms since the financial crisis of 2008- and that's also a fact.

Cuts to benefits-I'll give you that.  But how does that benefit a 'tiny' minority  of rich people?

Pay freeze for public sector workers- that goes for everyone in the public sector (including me!) many of whom are paid unbelievable amounts of money. Look what the high earners employed by Bolton Council earn. That's apart form MPs of course who got inflation bustin wage rises -voted for by both the major parties

And the Tories are not funded by the 'very wealthy'. There are many people of moderate means who are members, just as there are very wealthy people funding the Labour party

You talk about  right wing media , but by the same token there is a left wing media obscuring the facts, being selective about what they wish you to believe.


Its blinkered thinking again- invent a straw man to kick lumps out of him.
Choose what you want to believe but don't let facts get in the way

Nicely put Rammy. Unbiased, but factual. I like it. 
Maybe you can use Nats knickers when you go sailing 

Natasha Whittam wrote:

gloswhite wrote:We can only work with what we have, and its going to get less before it gets more.

Keep your willy out of this.

Good one Nat. Pissed myself laughing at this one.  

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

The evidence is not there at all. It's a blinkered view that seems to pass from generation to generation that the Tories are totally biased one way and that Labour  are totally biased in the opposite direction.. To say that the Tories are only  interested in looking after a 'tiny' minority who can be labelled rich I think is utterly naïve.
Its part of the binary divisive thinking that bedevils politics.

Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Do you really think the impact of these policies is shared equally across society?

Why do you think the Tory party is funded almost exclusively by the very wealthy?

 Tax cuts for all earners by reducing the basic rate of tax and increasing  personal allowances.  Google the Laffer curve and that will explain why reducing the tax rates actually increases the tax take.  Basic economics.

 Cuts to corporation tax allowing higher profits for reinvestment in an attempt to drive up labour productivity where we have one of the lowest productivity figures in Europe - with employment now at its highest for decades.

All plans too reduce tax payments sold commercially must now be approved by the Treasury(that's the law!!)

Budgets for the NHS, schools and social  care have been increased in real terms since the financial crisis of 2008- and that's also a fact.

Cuts to benefits-I'll give you that.  But how does that benefit a 'tiny' minority  of rich people?

Pay freeze for public sector workers- that goes for everyone in the public sector (including me!) many of whom are paid unbelievable amounts of money. Look what the high earners employed by Bolton Council earn. That's apart form MPs of course who got inflation bustin wage rises -voted for by both the major parties

And the Tories are not funded by the 'very wealthy'. There are many people of moderate means who are members, just as there are very wealthy people funding the Labour party

You talk about  right wing media , but by the same token there is a left wing media obscuring the facts, being selective about what they wish you to believe.


Its blinkered thinking again- invent a straw man to kick lumps out of him.
Choose what you want to believe but don't let facts get in the way

The Laffer curve is a theoretical construct and there is no one single Laffer curve. It definitely does not prove that reducing tax rates increases the tax take.

The Tories have been cutting Corporation Tax rates for years but as you say we still have one of the lowest productivity figures in Europe so clearly it isn't working.

Not sure what legislation you are referring to but I can assure you there is absolutely no blanket requirement that "All plans too reduce tax payments sold commercially must now be approved by the Treasury".

We may spend more money on the NHS now than in the past but expenditure is not going to increase in real terms over the next few years and there is a need for even more money because of the aging population. According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies over the 10 years to 2020, the NHS budget across the UK will not have increased enough to keep pace with the ageing and growing population. Plus we spend a lower proportion of our GDP on health than other EU countries.

In the 2015 general election for example 10 wealthy hedge fund managers donated £19m to the Tories. This far exceeds the contributions from the 150,000 members which would have been less than £800,000.

As for the left wing media, what is that apart from the Guardian?

gloswhite wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Rich and poor and middle class are all relative terms but it is clear that the Tory party is only interested in looking after a tiny minority of the people in this country who for simplicity can be labelled the rich. With the help of a biased right wing media they continue to convince large numbers of people otherwise but the evidence is there if people would only look.

The evidence is not there at all. It's a blinkered view that seems to pass from generation to generation that the Tories are totally biased one way and that Labour  are totally biased in the opposite direction.. To say that the Tories are only  interested in looking after a 'tiny' minority who can be labelled rich I think is utterly naïve.
Its part of the binary divisive thinking that bedevils politics.

Here are some examples of Tory policy:

tax cuts for higher earners
reduced rates of corporation tax
no effort to clamp down on tax evasion or artificial tax avoidance schemes
underfunding the NHS, education and social care
cuts to benefits
pay freeze for public sector workers

Do you really think the impact of these policies is shared equally across society?

Why do you think the Tory party is funded almost exclusively by the very wealthy?

 Tax cuts for all earners by reducing the basic rate of tax and increasing  personal allowances.  Google the Laffer curve and that will explain why reducing the tax rates actually increases the tax take.  Basic economics.

 Cuts to corporation tax allowing higher profits for reinvestment in an attempt to drive up labour productivity where we have one of the lowest productivity figures in Europe - with employment now at its highest for decades.

All plans too reduce tax payments sold commercially must now be approved by the Treasury(that's the law!!)

Budgets for the NHS, schools and social  care have been increased in real terms since the financial crisis of 2008- and that's also a fact.

Cuts to benefits-I'll give you that.  But how does that benefit a 'tiny' minority  of rich people?

Pay freeze for public sector workers- that goes for everyone in the public sector (including me!) many of whom are paid unbelievable amounts of money. Look what the high earners employed by Bolton Council earn. That's apart form MPs of course who got inflation bustin wage rises -voted for by both the major parties

And the Tories are not funded by the 'very wealthy'. There are many people of moderate means who are members, just as there are very wealthy people funding the Labour party

You talk about  right wing media , but by the same token there is a left wing media obscuring the facts, being selective about what they wish you to believe.


Its blinkered thinking again- invent a straw man to kick lumps out of him.
Choose what you want to believe but don't let facts get in the way

Nicely put Rammy. Unbiased, but factual. I like it. 
Maybe you can use Nats knickers when you go sailing 

Not entirely factual Glos.