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My response to your original comment was to point out that things got very heated on here, even very nasty. The forum suffered for it, and even now many prefer to just read the comments, without replying, because of the adverse, almost fanatical, reaction they will get.T.R.O.Y wrote:gloswhite wrote:Its nothing to do do with leavers, or remainers, anymore.T.R.O.Y wrote:It’s telling that Leavers on this thread have given up on making serious comments.
There was a lot of nasty comments and bad feeling after the referendum, with tempers running high. Add to that the Trump election, and one or two on here got completely out of hand, sometimes forgetting that this forum consists of football fans with a view, not racists, idiots, and all sorts in between. In honesty, we were all involved to some degree. The vehemence, and abuse, shown by some was unreasonable, and, from my point of view, the hard core of remainers were so adamant that nothing good could come out of any aspect of the referendum, meant that it was similar to pissing in the wind when trying to say anything even slightly, for leaving. Unfortunately, I feel we are all still walking on eggshells to some degree, with the Brexit thread).
Having said that, we have all got past that stage, and even manage to have the odd civil discussion about the state of the talks, etc. The forum has now returned to where it was before the civil war, and I have to wonder why you even raised the point, to be honest.
My point was that given everything we've seen since I'm not sure many Leavers are capable of having a serious debate about this anymore.
If we look at the claims and promises that were made during the referendum campaigns, almost everything has been shown to be incorrect or in the case of promises reneged on.
For instance:
1. EU keen to do a trade deal - German car manufacturers want to sell cars, France winerys sell champagne.
https://www.politico.eu/article/german-industry-to-uk-we-wont-undermine-single-market-over-brexit/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-germany-business-warns-theresa-may-protect-single-market-trade-deal-uk-a7831401.html
2. UK workers will do the jobs of cheap EU labour
https://www.ft.com/content/13e183ee-c099-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464
3. NHS weekly money (you don't need a link for this)
Nothing to do with civil discussions or vehemence and abuse, it's just a comment on the topic of the thread and how Brexit seems to be developing.
There are 3 very ardent supporters of remain on here, who are unable to grasp the fact that we are leaving the EU, regardless of what has been said, (by either side), and their responses can still be very blinkered, (in my view). An example would be the comment above by Xmiles, where he states that another 'liar' has been appointed to the cabinet. On what basis does he say that? Merely that she supports Brexit. Now you have joined in with links to whatever shows Brexit in a bad light. I accept things are nowhere near what was expected, or promised by a few, but its something we have to face and fix, not whinge about all the time.
Its a pity that many prefer to criticise only the UK, when it is obvious that the EU is as at least as culpable, focusing only on the 'divorce' money, (although if they don't get a pile of it, their Common Agricultural Policy may well collapse, apparently).
One way or another, all this turmoil will end, so wouldn't it be wiser to prepare for the outcomes, and not carp on about how we got there?
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