Brexit negotiations

From my perspective, most of the moaning is coming from the Leave voters who already are having to accept that the reality is somewhat different from what they thought they individually voted for. Complaining about posting the news as the story unfolds is met with tired media mantras of "we've done it now so let's just get on with it" as if somehow the magic Brexit fairy is going to wave her magic wand and give Britain the deal that they imagined we would get.
But the Leavers' imaginary deal is a deal without any foundation in economic reality and contains no details. In fact the absence of detail of what Britain hopes to get/realistically can get underpins the idea that there never was a single vision of life outside the EU which is perhaps why Leave voters frequently express different ideas of what the deal will/should look like.
However these negotiations will affect the lives of our children for generations to come and therefore it's only right that the details are commented on as they start to emerge. 
It's not moaning.
It is filling in the gaps and providing an insight into our potential future outside the EU - because there are a lot of gaps given that they voted for this without really understanding what they have let themselves - and sadly the rest of us - in for.
And it's clear that a) the Government/negotiators are starting to realise the enormity of Brexit and b) the details are going to emerge over a very long time. Only today, Hammond has accepted that we won't be able to sign a deal with Europe until after 2022!
What did he think was going to happen?
That they'd roll over and agree to all our demands within months?
That follows on from their desperate bid to assuage the people by claiming yesterday that freedom of movement would end in 2019.
So in the same spirit of "why show your cards ahead of a negotiation" which has been trotted out regularly to justify the Government failing to provide a proper Brexit exit strategy, surely announcing that before negotiations are concluded is a bit of a faux pas even though it should prevent the natives from getting too restless too early. I guess they see it as a "quick win".
Nobody wants a good deal for Britain more than I do but I think it's important that the details are reported on and discussed as they emerge - regardless of how uncomfortable that may make some people feel, because this is our future as a nation at stake.

For those interested, this is well worth watching!

https://t.co/gPvabntIDT

wanderlust wrote:From my perspective, most of the moaning is coming from the Leave voters who already are having to accept that the reality is somewhat different from what they thought they individually voted for. Complaining about posting the news as the story unfolds is met with tired media mantras of "we've done it now so let's just get on with it" as if somehow the magic Brexit fairy is going to wave her magic wand and give Britain the deal that they imagined we would get.It's not moaning.

All the moaning on this forum is coming from you mate.

You can moan until the cows come home but it won't make a jot of difference.

Actions speak louder than words - so what are you doing to stop Brexit happening - nothing at all.

All the legal, political and social paths are leading to Brexit as that video above explains.

Until you can turn that around Brexit is happening even if it does turn out really shit for us all and for years to come.

So if you want to stop it, get out of your armchair and become some sort of catalyst to change things in the country rather than constantly telling us on Nuts that we are all doomed!

So you didn't read what wrote then? Not that it would stop you from having a moan anyway.

Yes, I do you the curtesy of reading your posts.

You can fill in the gaps and give us your insights from now until the day you die but it won't change a single thing will it.

Actions speak louder than words, remember.

Go and DO something to stop Brexit if you think you can, otherwise accept the inevitable like the rest of us and get on with your life.

So because I am not doing anything about Brexit as far as you know, you feel anyone who isn't actively doing something about the things they are concerned about isn't entitled to an opinion?

OK then, I'll sort out Brexit when you have sorted out the dark web, prosthetic penis attackers, your relationship with Chris Manning, paedophilia, the Labour Party, the ST and all the other stuff you regularly whinge about. 

Let me know when you've sorted everything out and I'll get right on to the Brexit issue....


PS: If you don't mind getting drugs out of cycling and sport in general while you're at it you'll be doing us all a big favour.

There's a difference between an opinion and constant, ceaseless, endless bitching and moaning over nothing you can do about - and are not doing anything about (otherwise you would be the first to tell us all what you have been doing).

Unsurprising to see you've turned this into something personal against me again (you called me a fascist last time of course) and a peculiarly odd and extremely bizarre list of subjects you seem to think I care about.

Have you been drinking?

Oh dear, and things were definitely looking up in the last 3 or 4 weeks. 1 step forward, and 2 back.

Sluffy wrote:

bwfc71 wrote:I'd rather not live on the laurels of "what will be, will be" as seen already the UK is floundering.  I do not want the country to end up worse than at present, but it definitely heading that way with the Brexit.  Does anyone really want to be worse off than what they are now?

Words are cheap Chris.

What exactly are you doing to stop Brexit?

Watch this short video (4 min 30 secs) from the BBC  entitled Reality Check - Is Brexit Inevitable in respect of the Law, Politics and Practicalities of this matter.

When you, Wanderlust or anybody else can actually say they've DONE SOMETHING to help stop Brexit then I'll listen and be happy that you have.  Until then you can REMOAN until your hearts content but it won't make a jot of difference.

Watch what IS going to happen unless you find a way of stopping it - which of course you won't if all you do is just keep on moaning about it on here.

PS - best of luck with your new career.

Video here -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-40676514/reality-check-is-brexit-inevitable

To be fair I am an active member of a 48% group that has many things in the pipeline, never mind the current case suggesting that Article 50 was not done properly and as such Article 50 has not be invoked.  I am also helping behind the scenes with LibDems, locally, about post-Brexit what it means for me, you and everyone.

Brexit is not inevitable as many things can happen between now and 2019 and things are in progress as we speak to either delay or completely stop it.  Even Labour are changing their minds with regards to a new referendum with regards to the deal that will be informally agreed - thanks to Vince Cable  - and the Referendum will be about accepting, more talks or stop the process.  The process can legally be stopped at any time, the person who devised Article 50 has already advised that stopping the process can happen, even the EU has suggested this, and this has been verified by many in the legal profession.

As it is, as you say, at moment we are heading for the exit door, but we do need to talk what is happening as having the blinkers on just means we are blind to the fact and could be very detrimental to the majority of people and also be bad for the country, then where will we be?

Not moaning, just constant discussion of what is happening - that is the realistic and healthy approach.

And what standing would the country have in future discussions, when it manages to let a minority of the voters hijack democracy, and we stay in the EU? This result would have so many ramifications, that I feel would be an even worse settlement than anything available now. One thing I haven't heard from any side is that we want to be run by the EU. We can survive turbulence in financial terms, but we can't regain sovereignty once its been given away. I don't understand how people can throw their future away, just for the money they will have in their pockets.
Trying to cancel out the results of the referendum is not a healthy debate, its wheedling and whining, that will do nobody any good in the end.

gloswhite wrote:And what standing would the country have in future discussions, when it manages to let a minority of the voters hijack democracy, and we stay in the EU? This result would have so many ramifications, that I feel would be an even worse settlement than anything available now. One thing I haven't heard from any side is that we want to be run by the EU. We can survive turbulence in financial terms, but we can't regain sovereignty once its been given away. I don't understand how people can throw their future away, just for the money they will have in their pockets.
Trying to cancel out the results of the referendum is not a healthy debate, its wheedling and whining, that will do nobody any good in the end.

The people throwing their future away are the people who voted for brexit.

xmiles wrote:The people throwing their future away are the people who voted for brexit.

You really are an idiot.

The future isn't dependent on being in or out of the EU, the future is shaped by people striving to be the best in their chosen field. Just as it has for centuries.

You need to seek therapy, Brexit has taken over your life.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:The people throwing their future away are the people who voted for brexit.

You need to seek therapy.

Said the person pretending to be a woman obsessively making over 27,000 posts on a Bolton Wanderers forum.

xmiles wrote:Said the person pretending to be a woman obsessively making over 27,000 posts on a Bolton Wanderers forum.  

That's a desperate post. Because I clearly hit a nerve.

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:And what standing would the country have in future discussions, when it manages to let a minority of the voters hijack democracy, and we stay in the EU? This result would have so many ramifications, that I feel would be an even worse settlement than anything available now. One thing I haven't heard from any side is that we want to be run by the EU. We can survive turbulence in financial terms, but we can't regain sovereignty once its been given away. I don't understand how people can throw their future away, just for the money they will have in their pockets.
Trying to cancel out the results of the referendum is not a healthy debate, its wheedling and whining, that will do nobody any good in the end.

The people throwing their future away are the people who voted for brexit.

Possibly, but if so, I would say that we are possibly throwing away our immediate future, (although it isn't obvious by any means), in favour of our, and our kids, long-term futures.

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:And what standing would the country have in future discussions, when it manages to let a minority of the voters hijack democracy, and we stay in the EU? This result would have so many ramifications, that I feel would be an even worse settlement than anything available now. One thing I haven't heard from any side is that we want to be run by the EU. We can survive turbulence in financial terms, but we can't regain sovereignty once its been given away. I don't understand how people can throw their future away, just for the money they will have in their pockets.
Trying to cancel out the results of the referendum is not a healthy debate, its wheedling and whining, that will do nobody any good in the end.

The people throwing their future away are the people who voted for brexit.

Possibly, but if so, I would say that we are possibly throwing away our immediate future, (although it isn't obvious by any means), in favour of our, and our kids, long-term futures.

The difference between us is that I see our prospects being much better within the EU (a view shared by most experts and most younger and better educated people) and you believe our prospects are better outside the EU. Unfortunately that is a view that is backed by the likes of Boris, Gove, Farage, the Sun and Daily Mail and racists generally. Quite how we are supposed to be better off out than in is never explained except in meaningless terms like "wanting our country back" or bare-faced lies like spending £350m a week on the NHS.

Let's face it.....nobody knows for certain. What I hate is that the nation is now divided and squabbling, whether they are the intelligentsia or the plebs.

 And while our chosen MPs argue, backbite and show their incompetence and lack of basic compassion, many of the country's citizens have entered a phase of increasingly vile behaviour with acid attacks, prison riots, violence etc. It seems to me that the mood of the country is now rebellious.... challenging authority and unwilling to tolerate inequality, incompetence or injustice.

 We have no civilised, dignified, ethical role models to follow here or in many countries of the world. Dangerous times!

xmiles wrote:The difference between us is that I see our prospects being much better within the EU (a view shared by most experts and most younger and better educated people)

You really are a knob.