Brexit negotiations

Natasha Whittam wrote:I make my own decisions, you seem obsessed by following other people.

It shouldn't matter what Cameron, Farage, David Beckham, Will Buckley or the Queen thought - you should make decisions based on your own experiences and knowledge.

Oddly enough I agree with you.

The point I have been trying to make is that if a bunch of dodgy people are trying to sell you something you should be suspicious and you could not put together a more unpleasant and dodgy group than those arguing for brexit.

The problem is when we had the referendum the question was do we stay in or out. Neither side provided enough information for people to make an informed decision. 
Makes me laugh now all these people who are experts on things like fishing rights and customs unions when nobody knew a bloody thing about them at the time or even had a clue they would be an issue!

If people voted to leave the EU for economic reasons they are likely to have changed their minds about leaving unless they are so paranoid about being perceived to have been wrong they are prepared to cut off their own nose to spite their face.
If people voted to leave the EU for xenophobic reasons it really doesn’t matter which xenophobic politician or publication persuaded them as they are xenophobes anyway and will never like or trust our European partners - although they may wish to consider the “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” argument - I.e. stay in to have an influence.
I think the only relevant question now is how bad does it have to get before the leave lobby grow the balls to admit that leaving the EU is and always has been a stupid mistake and drop the whole Brexit nonsense.

wanderlust wrote:If people voted to leave the EU for economic reasons they are likely to have changed their minds about leaving unless they are so paranoid about being perceived to have been wrong they are prepared to cut off their own nose to spite their face.
If people voted to leave the EU for xenophobic reasons it really doesn’t matter which xenophobic politician or publication persuaded them as they are xenophobes anyway and will never like or trust our European partners - although they may wish to consider the “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” argument - I.e. stay in to have an influence.
I think the only relevant question now is how bad does it have to get before the leave lobby grow the balls to admit that leaving the EU is and always has been a stupid mistake and drop the whole Brexit nonsense.

Unfortunately it's already too late for that lusty. Once Article 50 was invoked the clock began an unstoppable countdown. The Scottish government are attempting to argue they have the right to unilaterally opt to stay in the EU in court as we speak but since Scotland is NOT an EU member in its own right I can't see them winning. Frankly the whole business is an unmitigated disaster brought on by an arrogant fool (Cameron), supported by a bunch of people I wouldn't allow into my house (eg Farage and the entire Murdoch organisation) whose lies were swallowed whole by a bunch of middle class, middle England voters who seem to live in a world that never existed outside the confines of Ealing Studios or Pinewood.

Whatever the leavers may say our children and grandchildren will pay a very heavy price for that self delusion and short sightedness. Britain will become more irrelevant on the world stage by the day and that it won't be long before all the major foreign companies who have bases and factories here will move them all to mainland Europe because of the various tarriffs and duties that are going to come in once we're no longer an EU member.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:If people voted to leave the EU for economic reasons they are likely to have changed their minds about leaving unless they are so paranoid about being perceived to have been wrong they are prepared to cut off their own nose to spite their face.
If people voted to leave the EU for xenophobic reasons it really doesn’t matter which xenophobic politician or publication persuaded them as they are xenophobes anyway and will never like or trust our European partners - although they may wish to consider the “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” argument - I.e. stay in to have an influence.
I think the only relevant question now is how bad does it have to get before the leave lobby grow the balls to admit that leaving the EU is and always has been a stupid mistake and drop the whole Brexit nonsense.

Unfortunately it's already too late for that lusty. Once Article 50 was invoked the clock began an unstoppable countdown. The Scottish government are attempting to argue they have the right to unilaterally opt to stay in the EU in court as we speak but since Scotland is NOT an EU member in its own right I can't see them winning. Frankly the whole business is an unmitigated disaster brought on by an arrogant fool (Cameron), supported by a bunch of people I wouldn't allow into my house (eg Farage and the entire Murdoch organisation) whose lies were swallowed whole by a bunch of middle class, middle England voters who seem to live in a world that never existed outside the confines of Ealing Studios or Pinewood.

Whatever the leavers may say our children and grandchildren will pay a very heavy price for that self delusion and short sightedness. Britain will become more irrelevant on the world stage by the day and that it won't be long before all the major foreign companies who have bases and factories here will move them all to mainland Europe because of the various tarriffs and duties that are going to come in once we're no longer an EU member.

I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

FFS you remainers on here are so fucking arrogant. Who do you think you are? Are you famous, have you made a substantial contribution to UK society or contributed millions to our economy? Have you fuck. You sit there and pontificate as though what you say is always correct, (because you only agree with those with the self same views as yourself). and denigrate all other comments or views that are not in accord with yours. You're nothing special, get over yourselves.

Look at this comment: 

"but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!" 

 Nice one XM, what a pompous prick you really are. I stopped reading this thread because of the sickening attitude of you morons, and as soon as I get back, you fall into the same attitude and arrogance as before. You can say what you like on here, I wont be reading it again.

gloswhite wrote:FFS you remainers on here are so fucking arrogant. Who do you think you are? Are you famous, have you made a substantial contribution to UK society or contributed millions to our economy? Have you fuck. You sit there and pontificate as though what you say is always correct, (because you only agree with those with the self same views as yourself). and denigrate all other comments or views that are not in accord with yours. You're nothing special, get over yourselves.

Look at this comment: 

"but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!" 

 Nice one XM, what a pompous prick you really are. I stopped reading this thread because of the sickening attitude of you morons, and as soon as I get back, you fall into the same attitude and arrogance as before. You can say what you like on here, I wont be reading it again.

A brilliant demonstration of how toxic facts are to leavers. It is a fact that people who voted leave were more likely to be old, less well educated and from the north. That is a fact.

Sad that you have over-reacted glos because I thought you were better than that and there is no need to resort to abuse. Particularly ironic when you yourself complained about the abuse leavers are supposed to have received.

xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

gloswhite wrote:FFS you remainers on here are so fucking arrogant. Who do you think you are? Are you famous, have you made a substantial contribution to UK society or contributed millions to our economy? Have you fuck. You sit there and pontificate as though what you say is always correct, (because you only agree with those with the self same views as yourself). and denigrate all other comments or views that are not in accord with yours. You're nothing special, get over yourselves.

Look at this comment: 

"but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!" 

 Nice one XM, what a pompous prick you really are. I stopped reading this thread because of the sickening attitude of you morons, and as soon as I get back, you fall into the same attitude and arrogance as before. You can say what you like on here, I wont be reading it again.

Well said Glos!

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

This is the problem with all Remainers.

Leavers.


Remainers.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

Yes you think it is a crime to state the truth. Why don't you face reality; these are simple facts.

karlypants wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

This is the problem with all Remainers.

As usual it is the leavers hurling abuse because they can't deal with reality.

gloswhite wrote:Sorry TROY, can't agree (how unusual  ), They do have something to lose, a great deal in fact. The problem for us is that losses for them will have less effect on the EU, than any corresponding losses on the UK.  They can ride out any disruption than us, which gives them the upper hand. If we were to walk away, (probably through our own ineptitude), then I believe you will see a flurry of activity either individually, or as the EU itself. What we mustn't do, is give in even further.

What deal are we offering them though? No freedom of movement but we want full access to the single market without paying any future fees? It’s just not going to happen, and why should it? 

The fact is we benefited massively from the EU, now we need to find another way. It’s not them doing us over, or Labour it’s time you looked at the Brexiteers who sold these lies. It’s just not as simple as they made out.

Leavers and remainers came from all societal groups apart from those who were prevented from having a vote in the referendum Yes there are some common trends within subgroups but I can’t see anything that be gained by focusing on how society is constituted. The only thing that matters now is that nobody  will get what they wanted because nobody knew what they were voting for and no group will get what they thought they were voting for and on that basis alone it should be canned.
And despite what peter says, it is reversible if the people stand up to a government attempting to railroad through a deal nobody wants. 
What are they going to do if we say no? Commit political suicide?

Here are the facts about how the brexit vote went:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwilx87g1fbeAhWIgM4BHfx5CGIQFjAMegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fyougov.co.uk%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2016%2F06%2F27%2Fhow-britain-voted&usg=AOvVaw266rNW_gQsa65pM_iGNAEU

It says a lot about the kind of people who support brexit on this site that merely stating these facts leads to a torrent of abuse. Still they probably find that easier than engaging in a rational discussion.

xmiles wrote:Here are the facts about how the brexit vote went:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwilx87g1fbeAhWIgM4BHfx5CGIQFjAMegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fyougov.co.uk%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2016%2F06%2F27%2Fhow-britain-voted&usg=AOvVaw266rNW_gQsa65pM_iGNAEU

It says a lot about the kind of people who support brexit on this site that merely stating these facts leads to a torrent of abuse. Still they probably find that easier than engaging in a rational discussion.

Well I didn't vote in that poll and I very much doubt Glos did so you can go and shove the inaccurate poll up your arse.

karlypants wrote:

xmiles wrote:Here are the facts about how the brexit vote went:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwilx87g1fbeAhWIgM4BHfx5CGIQFjAMegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fyougov.co.uk%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2016%2F06%2F27%2Fhow-britain-voted&usg=AOvVaw266rNW_gQsa65pM_iGNAEU

It says a lot about the kind of people who support brexit on this site that merely stating these facts leads to a torrent of abuse. Still they probably find that easier than engaging in a rational discussion.

Well I didn't vote in that poll and I very much doubt Glos did so you can go and shove the inaccurate poll up your arse.

The usual and expected response from someone who doesn't even understand what a poll is.

How many people on here considered Ireland when voting in the 2016 referendum? 
Honest answers only please.