Brexit negotiations

Despite her personal unpopularity and failure to negotiate a palatable deal I have a feeling May will survive for now, because her tactics will be the same ones she has been using since the whole Brexit fiasco started i.e. she will use the threat of a leadership election further delaying Brexit to bring a majority of Tories in line. It's called blackmail.
The other issue is there doesn't seem to be any credible alternative to May in the Tory ranks. 

Now if Labour dumped Corbyn and replaced him with Sir Keir Starmer that would be interesting.

Haha! May has done exactly as above....

In a statement in Downing Street, Mrs May said: "I will contest that vote with everything I have got."
She said a new prime minister would have to scrap or extend Article 50, the mechanism taking Britain out of the EU on 29 March, "delaying or even stopping Brexit".
Project Blackmail continues apace and should be enough for May to win the vote tonight. However that's exactly what Thatcher did before we finally got rid of the evil witch.

£39 billion is just 1% of the government's spending power......

She will win the vote. 

Less than 50 will vote against.

I'm not sure I can take all this excitement.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:She will win the vote. 

Less than 50 will vote against.

More than 60 will vote against.

Wow! 117 - well over the 33% stink threshhold despite the threats AND May agreeing to step down albeit not immediately.

Well at least she's gone - we just have to see how much more damage she can do before she checks out of number 10 - on which note she is immune from another leadership challenge for a year which will presumably spare us the having to watch Boris making a dick of himself again for a while. Interesting times but sadly tinged by a Government who have turned this country into the laughing stock of the world.

With the Government in deadlock it's increasingly looking like People's Vote time cos if the politicians can't agree, who else can sort it out if not the people? - only better informed this time and hopefully with all registered voters included.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:She will win the vote. 

Less than 50 will vote against.

117 actually, 37% of Tory MPs, and she was so desperate to win that she gave the vote to two MPs who had been suspended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46544328

Unsurprisingly, EU leaders tell May to fuck off and stick to the deal she agreed. here

So what's next? 

Nothing to sweeten the DUP with and no reason why the vote on the deal can not now go ahead - although it wouldn't be surprising if she tried to wriggle out of this one too. It's just that this time, without the confidence of the House, she won't get away with any more lies and deceipt.

Dead woman walking.

Everything comes back to the referendum and the failure to define what people were voting for. That stupid phrase "Brexit means Brexit" has papered over the truth of the matter which is that Brexiteers all voted for a different thing and now they are faced with a deal they can't agree on.

In fact they've never agreed and would have realised this if the referendum had been meaningful and sensible.

Now the "hard Brexiteers" wan't no deal, the "soft Brexiteers" want to accept the deal and the rest of the country doesn't want to leave at all.

This is what happens when you try to address a complex issue with a Yes or No answer - especially when the voting public didn't understand how complex the issue was in the first place.

Why do remainers insist on calling a second referendum a People's Vote?

A second referendum about what? Is it to accept or reject the deal on offer which 98%  of the population haven't a clue what it means.
Or is it because the deal is so bad that we go back to the leave/remain offer and start all over again. There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain. But the risk of it being the same as last time (i.e leave) is too horrendous to contemplate with us being kicked out on March 29th.
And  the way that the 'Europeans ' are treating us at the moment makes 'remainers' like me last time feel like voting leave next time because I'd rather be out of their bureaucratic and selfish organisation. They could make this easier for May- but their bloody-mindedness at punishing us is becoming intolerable. I might well vote leave next time,if there is a next time..

Cajunboy wrote:Why do remainers insist on calling a second referendum a People's Vote?

Why do eurosceptics insist on calling the partial opinion poll a referendum when millions of registered voters were systematically denied the opportunity to vote?

rammywhite wrote:A second referendum about what? Is it to accept or reject the deal on offer which 98%  of the population haven't a clue what it means.
Or is it because the deal is so bad that we go back to the leave/remain offer and start all over again. There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain. But the risk of it being the same as last tine (i.e leave) is too horrendous to contemplate with us being kicked out on March 29th.
And  the way that the 'Europeans ' are treating us at the moment makes 'remainers' like me last time feel like voting leave next time because I'd rather be out of their bureaucratic and selfish organisation. They could make this easier for May- but their bloody-mindedness at punishing us is becoming intolerable. I might well vote leave next time,if there is a next time..

Why do you think the Europeans are treating us badly? They negotiated in good faith to protect their interests - as we allegedly did - and a deal was agreed.

Surely it's our Government that are trying to move the goalposts and not the EU?

Is it the EU's fault that the eurosceptics fed the public a load of lies about the EU and then promised them a load of stuff that it was never going to be possible to deliver?

rammywhite wrote:There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain.

The polls suggest the result would be the same, only with a larger majority.

wanderlust wrote:

rammywhite wrote:A second referendum about what? Is it to accept or reject the deal on offer which 98%  of the population haven't a clue what it means.
Or is it because the deal is so bad that we go back to the leave/remain offer and start all over again. There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain. But the risk of it being the same as last tine (i.e leave) is too horrendous to contemplate with us being kicked out on March 29th.
And  the way that the 'Europeans ' are treating us at the moment makes 'remainers' like me last time feel like voting leave next time because I'd rather be out of their bureaucratic and selfish organisation. They could make this easier for May- but their bloody-mindedness at punishing us is becoming intolerable. I might well vote leave next time,if there is a next time..

Why do you think the Europeans are treating us badly? They negotiated in good faith to protect their interests - as we allegedly did - and a deal was agreed.

Surely it's our Government that are trying to move the goalposts and not the EU?

Is it the EU's fault that the eurosceptics fed the public a load of lies about the EU and then promised them a load of stuff that it was never going to be possible to deliver?

As you well know Lusty they are hellbent on protecting the political project thus the huge support for Greece when it collapsed and the same for Ireland in 2008. That's why they have admitted the basically broke and parasitic East European states as a buffer against Russian expansion. It has little to do with economics and everything to do with politics. Give us an easy deal and then  some of the peripheral states (eg Portugal, Greece) will want to walk away- but you don't need me to tell you all of this as you know it already.
Give Teresa May a time limit on the Irish backstop and the deal will stand a reasonable chance of getting through parliament, But as its not time limited then it doesn't stand a chance.
The Carson plebiscite has cast a long shadow!! (google it!!)
It would be simple enough for the other 27 states to agree a time limit- but they won't.
So they are faced with the chaos of a no deal exit which will damage the UK AND the other states particularly Ireland which will really begin to suffer as so many of their imports come through the UK and thus may be subject to tariffs.
There's no winners in any of this. Give just an inch and they'll gain a mile

Natasha Whittam wrote:

rammywhite wrote:There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain.

The polls suggest the result would be the same, only with a larger majority.

I thought you didn't believe in polls.

rammywhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

rammywhite wrote:A second referendum about what? Is it to accept or reject the deal on offer which 98%  of the population haven't a clue what it means.
Or is it because the deal is so bad that we go back to the leave/remain offer and start all over again. There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain. But the risk of it being the same as last tine (i.e leave) is too horrendous to contemplate with us being kicked out on March 29th.
And  the way that the 'Europeans ' are treating us at the moment makes 'remainers' like me last time feel like voting leave next time because I'd rather be out of their bureaucratic and selfish organisation. They could make this easier for May- but their bloody-mindedness at punishing us is becoming intolerable. I might well vote leave next time,if there is a next time..

Why do you think the Europeans are treating us badly? They negotiated in good faith to protect their interests - as we allegedly did - and a deal was agreed.

Surely it's our Government that are trying to move the goalposts and not the EU?

Is it the EU's fault that the eurosceptics fed the public a load of lies about the EU and then promised them a load of stuff that it was never going to be possible to deliver?

As you well know Lusty they are hellbent on protecting the political project thus the huge support for Greece when it collapsed and the same for Ireland in 2008. That's why they have admitted the basically broke and parasitic East European states as a buffer against Russian expansion. It has little to do with economics and everything to do with politics. Give us an easy deal and then  some of the peripheral states (eg Portugal, Greece) will want to walk away- but you don't need me to tell you all of this as you know it already.
Give Teresa May a time limit on the Irish backstop and the deal will stand a reasonable chance of getting through parliament, But as its not time limited then it doesn't stand a chance.
The Carson plebiscite has cast a long shadow!! (google it!!)
It would be simple enough for the other 27 states to agree a time limit- but they won't.
So they are faced with the chaos of a no deal exit which will damage the UK AND the other states particularly Ireland which will really begin to suffer as so many of their imports come through the UK and thus may be subject to tariffs.
There's no winners in any of this. Give just an inch and they'll gain a mile

If you put a time limit on the backstop it won't be a backstop! That is why the EU are completely clear and consistent in saying they won't budge on this. Just because May is an absolutely hopeless negotiator you can hardly blame the EU for this.

xmiles wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

rammywhite wrote:A second referendum about what? Is it to accept or reject the deal on offer which 98%  of the population haven't a clue what it means.
Or is it because the deal is so bad that we go back to the leave/remain offer and start all over again. There's a feeling afoot that this time the vote will be remain. But the risk of it being the same as last tine (i.e leave) is too horrendous to contemplate with us being kicked out on March 29th.
And  the way that the 'Europeans ' are treating us at the moment makes 'remainers' like me last time feel like voting leave next time because I'd rather be out of their bureaucratic and selfish organisation. They could make this easier for May- but their bloody-mindedness at punishing us is becoming intolerable. I might well vote leave next time,if there is a next time..

Why do you think the Europeans are treating us badly? They negotiated in good faith to protect their interests - as we allegedly did - and a deal was agreed.

Surely it's our Government that are trying to move the goalposts and not the EU?

Is it the EU's fault that the eurosceptics fed the public a load of lies about the EU and then promised them a load of stuff that it was never going to be possible to deliver?

As you well know Lusty they are hellbent on protecting the political project thus the huge support for Greece when it collapsed and the same for Ireland in 2008. That's why they have admitted the basically broke and parasitic East European states as a buffer against Russian expansion. It has little to do with economics and everything to do with politics. Give us an easy deal and then  some of the peripheral states (eg Portugal, Greece) will want to walk away- but you don't need me to tell you all of this as you know it already.
Give Teresa May a time limit on the Irish backstop and the deal will stand a reasonable chance of getting through parliament, But as its not time limited then it doesn't stand a chance.
The Carson plebiscite has cast a long shadow!! (google it!!)
It would be simple enough for the other 27 states to agree a time limit- but they won't.
So they are faced with the chaos of a no deal exit which will damage the UK AND the other states particularly Ireland which will really begin to suffer as so many of their imports come through the UK and thus may be subject to tariffs.
There's no winners in any of this. Give just an inch and they'll gain a mile

If you put a time limit on the backstop it won't be a backstop! That is why the EU are completely clear and consistent in saying they won't budge on this. Just because May is an absolutely hopeless negotiator you can hardly blame the EU for this.

I don't question that the EU is a political bloc designed to protect and expand western ideals, but it is also an economic bloc of sufficient strength to compete with the Americans and Chinese. It has many faults but I firmly believe Britain's interests are best served by being a major player in it rather than a small island trying to compete with it.
This world has changed whether we like it or not.

xmiles wrote:I thought you didn't believe in polls.

I was just making a statement.