Brexit negotiations

Natasha Whittam wrote:It's clear xmiles & wanderlust want our PM to roll over and do things to suit the EU.

Good on her for standing her ground. We're British, we don't let other countries dictate to us.

Xmiles & wanderlust should fuck off to France, it's clear they are kindred spirits.

May standing her ground? I thought she is selling out the Brexit dream or at least that is the message being delivered by half her party and the likes of your other hero Farage - not that anyone's listening to him if his empty bus tour and less than 1% electoral turn out in Bolton to support him in his hour of need is anything to go by.

So which Tory are you? The type that supports May or the type that says she is a sellout?

BTW you'll be delighted to know that I'd love to fuck off abroad, but despite having paid taxes into the British economy for 40 odd years, the Brexit devaluation of the pound means my state pension won't buy me a cup of coffee in Europe any more.

wanderlust wrote:
May standing her ground? I thought she is selling out the Brexit dream or at least that is the message being delivered by half her party and the likes of your other hero Farage - not that anyone's listening to him if his empty bus tour and less than 1% electoral turn out in Bolton to support him in his hour of need is anything to go by.

So which Tory are you? The type that supports May or the type that says she is a sellout?

BTW you'll be delighted to know that I'd love to fuck off abroad, but despite having paid taxes into the British economy for 40 odd years, the Brexit devaluation of the pound means my state pension won't buy me a cup of coffee in Europe any more.

I actually voted Labour at the last election which is well documented on here. I don't consider myself a Tory, on election day I vote for the party I feel is best at that moment in time. I'm not one of those fools who would vote Tory regardless of their policies, just because it's what their Dad did.

May is proving stronger than people gave her credit for. You yourself said she wouldn't be in charge come March 2019 - it's looking like she will.

It’s not a sign of strength that the Tories haven’t tried to oust her yet, it just means they’re still more scared of a Corbyn government.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:
May standing her ground? I thought she is selling out the Brexit dream or at least that is the message being delivered by half her party and the likes of your other hero Farage - not that anyone's listening to him if his empty bus tour and less than 1% electoral turn out in Bolton to support him in his hour of need is anything to go by.

So which Tory are you? The type that supports May or the type that says she is a sellout?

BTW you'll be delighted to know that I'd love to fuck off abroad, but despite having paid taxes into the British economy for 40 odd years, the Brexit devaluation of the pound means my state pension won't buy me a cup of coffee in Europe any more.

I actually voted Labour at the last election which is well documented on here. I don't consider myself a Tory, on election day I vote for the party I feel is best at that moment in time. I'm not one of those fools who would vote Tory regardless of their policies, just because it's what their Dad did.

May is proving stronger than people gave her credit for. You yourself said she wouldn't be in charge come March 2019 - it's looking like she will.

Didn't you see the leaked document reported in the Mail and the Telegraph last week? Here's one version of the story.
It was ages ago when I first said I thought they'd get rid of her at the end of the negotiations, and whilst there remains a possibility of her staying on, at least there is now some evidence that her own party is out to get her although of course there's still some possibility that she might survive.

FYI I'm starting to err on the side of thinking that some sort of last-minute deal will be done with the EU rather than the dreaded no deal scenario. If my theory that the whole Brexit con is actually about UK power grabbing rather than EU membership turns out to be true (and it still looks like it is IMO) the international corporates than run the Tory party will need her to push through something at this stage - even if it totally unacceptable to the rank and file leave voters - in order to have a platform for their own agenda in the brouhaha that will inevitably follow.

I'm also expecting some sort of popularity-boosting announcement to be made by May's team at the upcoming Tory conference to try to steady the ship although I've no idea what that might be - other than desperate  

If the UK public accept the deal May comes up with - and I'd be surprised if they do - there is perhaps a chance that she'll survive.

I have to say that May has lasted remarkably well, even though she doesn't seem to have a credible plan in place.
Having said that, when you take a step back, and look at our esteemed MP's, you have to wonder what the hell are they playing at. May is rattling down the track, and heading for the buffers, whilst Corbyn, even at this late stage still cannot decide what he wants to do.
Personally, I think our politicians have let us down badly, but I shouldn't be surprised really, as they haven't had to make any big decisions for some years, (about 40 I think  )
When this is over were going to have either a government that cannot put the country first, to one that is trying to put its leader first. 
Its going to be chaotic when all this Brexit stupidity is over, and do the current bunch really think we will just carry on as before, now that we've seen their true capabilities ?

Dunkels King wrote:

gloswhite wrote:DK. Fair comments, about your career. Being ex Army, and having a specialist trade, I think I know where you're coming from. My own options were even more limited.
Just because were old farts, doesn't mean we can say what we like about age, colour, etc 
Truths about Brexit were hard to come by from either side, also you ask about ex-pats, but seem to forget that everyone will suffer in some form or other, and from times when I lived abroad, the further from the UK I and my family were, the more we were sheltered from the more severe effects.
I do see your concerns, genuinely, but bear in mind that we will be subject to many other influences that you will not, e.g. price increases, etc.

Don't get me started on money  I am paid an hourly rate in GBP. as you can imagine with the pound sliding against most Currencies I am about 300 Euro per month worse off than I was before Brexit was announced. I hope it doesn't go too much further or I will have to stop bathing in Champagne.

I can't think of anything worse 
I had the same problem a few years ago when GBP were translated to Cyprus Pounds, but certainly not as big a drop as yours. Having said that, they had to introduce a new allowance, just to make up the difference.
Whatever the outcome, I hope it all goes smoothly for you.

gloswhite wrote:I have to say that May has lasted remarkably well, even though she doesn't seem to have a credible plan in place.
Having said that, when you take a step back, and look at our esteemed MP's, you have to wonder what the hell are they playing at. May is rattling down the track, and heading for the buffers, whilst Corbyn, even at this late stage still cannot decide what he wants to do.
Personally, I think our politicians have let us down badly, but I shouldn't be surprised really, as they haven't had to make any big decisions for some years, (about 40 I think  )
When this is over were going to have either a government that cannot put the country first, to one that is trying to put its leader first. 
Its going to be chaotic when all this Brexit stupidity is over, and do the current bunch really think we will just carry on as before, now that we've seen their true capabilities ?

A very depressing prospect for which we have to thank Cameron, although if most of the press hadn't been so fanatically hostile to the EU over the years and made up so many lies about the EU maybe Cameron wouldn't have felt the need to call a referendum.

gloswhite wrote:
When this is over were going to have either a government that cannot put the country first, or one that is trying to put its leader first. 
Its going to be chaotic when all this Brexit stupidity is over, and do the current bunch really think we will just carry on as before, now that we've seen their true capabilities ?

I've always thought that the whole thing is a power struggle, but to some extent the "leaders" are no more than puppets of the corporate funders. Corporates - notably British corporates like the East India Company in the early days and the global superpowers more recently - have always bought and sold "leaders" around the world and it saddens me that it's now happening to us.
They don't get to be trillionaires by being thick, and convincing the British people that they have some sort of control when in fact they have none is a brilliant albeit well-used strategy pioneered by the British in colonial times. The role of the leave campaign was merely to endorse their money-making plans in a global economy IMO and we have effectively ceded control instead of "taking it back", made worse by the fact that we are about to lose the protection of the EU trading bloc.
Frankly it doesn't matter who the token figurehead is any more as they'll do as they're told and will get well looked after for it.
Britain got rich, fat and lazy and was ripe for the picking and any thoughts that our democracy would be our strength has now gone out of the window - most of us still have a vote, but what use is that when they have been given consensus to decide what we can actually vote on?

Quite a bit of truth in there Wander. The big conglomerates have held sway over far too much, ranging from money, to influencing public opinion or behaviour. This is shown best by Facebook, which is happily ignoring all peoples, governments, (and income tax), in its scramble to make money.

gloswhite wrote:Quite a bit of truth in there Wander. The big conglomerates have held sway over far too much, ranging from money, to influencing public opinion or behaviour. This is shown best by Facebook, which is happily ignoring all peoples, governments, (and income tax), in its scramble to make money.

It's all speculation Glos but it depends on which way you look at it and it could be argued that there hasn't been anything to show it isn't happening.
However those with a global spread of investments have least to lose and potentially most to gain from stirring up the markets with cons like Brextheeconomy and have the wherewithal to make it happen via companies like Cambridge Analytica and the media barons so it's only a short step to wielding the balance of power - which I think they do already.
I just wonder if they in turn have sympathies for or deals with foreign powers who would also benefit from our destabilisation? We'll probably  never know.

wanderlust wrote:

gloswhite wrote:Quite a bit of truth in there Wander. The big conglomerates have held sway over far too much, ranging from money, to influencing public opinion or behaviour. This is shown best by Facebook, which is happily ignoring all peoples, governments, (and income tax), in its scramble to make money.

It's all speculation Glos but it depends on which way you look at it and it could be argued that there hasn't been anything to show it isn't happening.
However those with a global spread of investments have least to lose and potentially most to gain from stirring up the markets with cons like Brextheeconomy and have the wherewithal to make it happen via companies like Cambridge Analytica and the media barons so it's only a short step to wielding the balance of power - which I think they do already.
I just wonder if they in turn have sympathies for or deals with foreign powers who would also benefit from our destabilisation? We'll probably  never know.

Someone, somewhere will overstep the mark, (such as Russia and the Novichock), and its important that they are brought to book. 
Personally, politics apart, I think this government has done well in pursuing the Russian state for this outrage. However, it looks, like most things, that interest is on the wane, with, yet again, nobody being punished.

Interestingly, the USA Federal Reserve today dropped their accommodative monetary policy causing share prices to rise on Wall St notably technology shares. In essence an accommodative policy makes it easier and cheaper for businesses to borrow money which has the effects of increasing employment but suppressing interest rates for savers. Central banks tend to use it when there is a downturn in order to stimulate the economy. 
Today's move will strengthen American businesses but the risk is that it will cause inflation.
Mark Carney at the Bank of England has operated an accommodative policy for some years now so it will be interesting to see if the BoE follows suit as British companies continue to underperform whilst investors remain skeptical about Brexit. The BoE is sitting on reserves of £485 billion so there's plenty of room for manoeuvre if they want to try to match the Americans however it might get pissed away until Brexit is sorted one way or the other and inflation is under control so I'm not banking on getting a decent return on my savings just yet. Plus the Government would be against it whilst the accommodative policy is propping up artificially high employment figures. I'm sure the BoE would like to do it to keep British businesses competitive, but with the exit debacle hanging around it's just not the right time.
Perfect timing by the Americans to take advantage of our mess though...

wanderlust wrote:Interestingly,

That's where I stopped reading because I knew it wasn't going to be.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Interestingly,

That's where I stopped reading because I knew it wasn't going to be.

That's where you stopped reading what?

Today's Government stats for the quarter.

GDP growth down to 0.1% - and annual forecast now revised down to 1.2% (compared to 2.1% for the EU and 2.6% for the US)

UK inflation at 2.7%

UK business investment fell by 0.7%

No chance of the accommodative policy being dropped any time soon.

What's that got to do with Brexit?

Natasha Whittam wrote:What's that got to do with Brexit?

Interestingly..... it's in the interesting article above that you didn't read.

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:What's that got to do with Brexit?

Interestingly..... it's in the interesting article above that you didn't read.

I've just read it. It wasn't interesting.

I feel cheated.