Brexit negotiations

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government 

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " " symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.

a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

1 - People know how crap your reply is when your very first point is quibbling over a typing error and not the content of what was said.
2 - You stated quite clearly that the information was published by the Conservative Government - it was not.  It was I that informed YOU that YouGov was a PRIVATE International company!
3 - YouGov was NOT founded by a Conservative MP (although 12 years after its incorporation one of it's co-founders Nadhim Zahawi did become one).
4 - Zahawi however RESIGNED from YouGov BEFORE he stood for Parliament.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:The irony is that these are the statistics published by the Tory Government 

Here.


And the last line was a light-hearted jest as indicated by the " " symbol. Do I really have to explain that to you or are you....erm...Tory voters?

I've pointed out to you before (on the Brexit thread itself iirc) that YouGov has nothing to do with being an official government site - it is a PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL business organisation -

https://yougov.co.uk/

The Conservative Government certainly didn't publish these statistics as you claim.

As for how accurate it purports to be, the following link is what it forecast on the very day of the Brexit referendum -

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/23/yougov-day-poll


As for your claim of the 'light hearted jest' - non of us believe that, as we have all seen your numerous past posts and what you are capable of stating - particularly on topics that you have strong, unrestrained opinions on such as Brexit.

a) the word in English is "none"
b) YouGov is a British based project set up and seed-funded by the Conservative Government and founded by a Conservative MP (dodgy that he should have won the contract) 
The "international" bit came later as YouGov's success allowed them to make a number of international acquisitions of existing foreign businesses, but it's base and headquarters remain in Britain.

I would add that co-founder Nadhim Zahawi is the current Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Children and Families serving in the current Conservative Government.

1 - People know how crap your reply is when your very first point is quibbling over a typing error and not the content of what was said.
2 - You stated quite clearly that the information was published by the Conservative Government - it was not.  It was I that informed YOU that YouGov was a PRIVATE International company!
3 - YouGov was NOT founded by a Conservative MP (although 12 years after its incorporation one of it's co-founders Nadhim Zahawi did become one).
4 - Zahawi however RESIGNED from YouGov BEFORE he stood for Parliament.

1) which people do you think you are speaking for?
2) technically correct although given the facts there’s no way you can claim anti-government bias as implied in your original comment 
3) Zahawi is the founder and he is a Tory mp so what’s your problem?
4) He is a shareholding PDMR ergo still has vested interest.

It’s still a fact that the majority of non-working over 70 year olds and the less educated vote Tory.

...and probably to leave the EU too

gloswhite wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Interesting that those who are unemployed or simply don't work vote in large swathes for labour. 

If you line this up with the education stats this must be people who are simply too intelligent or wealthy to brother working.

Basically, they want to hang on to what they've got and thereby demonstrate clearly that they consider personal status to be more important than British society as a whole - even though it was British society that provided the vehicle and opportunities for them to get to the privileged position they are in. Self-congratulatory greed and selfishness are the adjectives that come to mind.

I think this part of your statement better describes those who voted to remain within Europe.
Us old timers knew a vastly different society than that of today. We contributed, and learned that we had to save, and look to the future. The idea, promoted by every government, was that we should provide for ourselves as much as possible, and not give it all away to people who have done nothing for it. I don't understand why you should call us greedy, have you given all your money away then? Also, for many many older people, its not a case of being freedy, but more of survival.

The trouble is that it is not easy for my generation to save. I have a good wage but more than one third goes on rent, and I can forget about buying when a three bedroom apartment goes for more than 350,000 Euro where I live. When you talk about people who have done nothing are you talking about British people that don't bother to work ? I ask because like I said before, EU Citizens living and working in the UK have a higher net contribution than British people:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

I do agree that a lot of old people struggle to get by, and it is shameful that they are not helped more, but once again that is a UK Government issue and nothing to do with the EU. I don't see that problem over here, but then again the Pension over here is a hell of a lot higher than in the UK, but of course we pay a hell of a lot more in to the system in the first place.

I'm not referring to any particular caste of working people, or where they are from. its more about making the point that we plan for, and retain, a future as much as possible for when we need it. I'm no different to anyone else in that I was unemployed for some time, had no head-start financially with money left by parents or relatives, got into debt, and was often on the bare bones of my arse when it came to cash. I still remember when if I had paid all my bills, I would have been left with £3 for the month. Its at times like this that you realise that life isn't going to do anything for you, and you have to make the decisions, and keep making the necessary moves to make your life better. It doesn't mean going to the benefit office, and expecting them to keep you afloat for the rest of your life.
When I got my first mortgage, it was thought that life was at a good standard if the mortgage was approximately a third of your income, which is where you are at this time. Financially you seem to be doing OK, and property prices are, I believe, slightly lower in mainland Europe, than in the UK, (though I could be wrong), so I still believe you should be counting your blessings.

I do think lifestyle expectations have changed over the years with the rise of the consumer culture and borrowing. 

Very difficult to save much for the future in such an environment and the type of austerity we lived through in the 70s won't be considered an option by many of the 20 somethings I know, although a few are wising up. But they are the lucky ones.

Agreed Wander, its not easy, but there again, it wasn't then either. I think a major change, as you say, is the revolution/evolution of the consumer society, where people feel they are not really 'living' if they don't have the latest in technology, appliances, etc. More and more people are being forced into personal situations where they have to make crucial decisions, and many don't have the experience, or outlook, to do it successfully. Society as a whole is on a slow downward spiral, where life is getting cheaper, and fulfillment of expectations is getting so much harder.

gloswhite wrote:Agreed Wander, its not easy, but there again, it wasn't then either. I think a major change, as you say, is the revolution/evolution of the consumer society, where people feel they are not really 'living' if they don't have the latest in technology, appliances, etc. More and more people are being forced into personal situations where they have to make crucial decisions, and many don't have the experience, or outlook, to do it successfully. Society as a whole is on a slow downward spiral, where life is getting cheaper, and fulfillment of expectations is getting so much harder.

All this takes me back to when me and my mate were living in a condemned property in Causewayhead in Stirling that was still being rented out where we had to burn floorboards to keep warm and nick turnips from the fields to top up a pot of stew that was kept on the go for 3 months. Can't have been healthy on reflection, but we survived and we were independent.

I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

boltonbonce wrote:I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

You mean they all went back to eating meat?

karlypants wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

You mean they all went back to eating meat?

No. They ran out of gas masks.

boltonbonce wrote:

karlypants wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:I went on a cabbage soup diet once. I survived. Not many of the people around me did though.

You mean they all went back to eating meat?

No. They ran out of gas masks.

Everyone watch Dominic Cumberbatch tonight?

The irony of some brexit supporting right wing arseholes calling a Tory MP a Nazi. Are they so ignorant that they don't know what the Nazis were?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46789601

She's not a Nazi but I think it's a stretch to call her a Tory.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:She's not a Nazi but I think it's a stretch to call her a Tory.

Why's that Hipster? Because she's pro-EU like the majority of the Tory party and every Tory Prime Minister since Churchill?

Brexit - The Uncivil War.

Telegraph loved it and the Guardian thought it was irresponsible to portray Farage and Banks as comedy characters instead of painting them as "dangerous shit-stirrers", but I thought they missed the point. 
The key thing about this is the superb portrayal of the architect of the Leave campaign, Dominic Cummings - the rest of the characters are really peripheral in this fact-based drama.
It was an excellent insight into how Cummings pulled Brexit off and would recommend it to anyone regardless of persuasion. 

It'll be on the Channel 4 player I'd imagine.

wanderlust wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:She's not a Nazi but I think it's a stretch to call her a Tory.

Why's that Hipster? Because she's pro-EU like the majority of the Tory party and every Tory Prime Minister since Churchill?

No it's not lusty.

Another defeat for May.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46803112

On the 9th of May, the 27 EU leaders will usher in a new dawn, with a very special summit that will pave the way for a stronger, more united and more democratic Europe. #EURoad2Sibiu 

Crikey. Didn't see this on my ballot paper. Quite deceptive of the remain campaign to say a vote to remain was a vote for the status quo.

Yes obviously the remain campaign is guilty of not predicting that a summit would be taking place three years after the referendum to discuss moving towards a more democratic Europe. If only they had stuck to bare faced lies like promising to spend £350m on the NHS.